4 ms·

Smell like Nikolas and Theranos. Both seem to be technically possible, but on closer inspection it turns out they weren't, at least not today. Since not even

Smell like Nikolas and Theranos. Both seem to be technically possible, but on closer inspection it turns out they weren't, at least not today. Since not even a lab explanation is offered, it smells incredibly similar.

rippercushions 3y ago
Inductive highway charging is entirely feasible and there have been various experiments around the world for years now. The main issue is how to fund outfitting cars to make use of it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_road https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_road
- woodruffw 3y ago
  Experiments are evidence of feasibility studies, not feasibility itself. From the article, the main deployments of induction in roadbeds have been a small pilot program[1] in South Korea and an unrealized plan in Sweden. The South Korean deployment has apparently (partially?) shut down since. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Online_electric_vehicle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Online_electric_vehicle
  - rippercushions 3y ago
    The Swedish plan is very much being realized, they've been testing since 2012 and they're building out the first permanent segment by 2027. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish_Transport_Administration_electric_road_program https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish_Transport_Administrati... The challenge is not the technology itself, but funding, standards, scaling it out etc etc.
    - woodruffw 3y ago
      Given that it doesn't exist yet (and that the only comparable example was partially decommissioned), I don't think we're in a position to claim that the technology is ready. We've barely had the "easy" wireless charging scenario (small, stationary devices, low power draws) for a decade; it isn't even remotely clear that vehicles sizes and speeds, clearances, road conditions, etc. have received adequate consideration yet.
  - imtringued 3y ago
    In Germany they installed the inductive charger at the last bus station. The bus spends less than fifteen minutes charging. This isn't enough for the whole trip but if you start from a full charge you can last a while day.
- Aperocky 3y ago
  Of course it's "feasible" I can also hire a helicopter to commute, it will be feasible until I run out of money.
dataviz1000 3y ago
Or like Meta and Magic Leap? I don't see reason to criticize investing billions of dollars in innovative projects with a high probability of failure. All these projects generate massive amounts of knowledge which might be allied in the future if not now. As these projects fail, the researchers and employees moving might not have an idea how to accomplish something but rather will know several ways not to accomplish something which is valuable too.
bombcar 3y ago
Pantographs for trucks has been shown in operation, and we've had trolley-busses forever - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3P_S7pL7Yg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3P_S7pL7Yg While it's unlikely to be adopted for cars, it seems a cheaper and more reasonable first step at electrification (though the USA can't even electrify its rail and that sits there and goes nowhere and is a minimal cost). Electrification of rail is something like $5m a track/mile - electrification of all rail in Los Angeles could be done for something in the low few billions. Add electric trucks for $20-50b more, and suddenly LA is much cleaner, and you've not touched a single car.
- George83728 3y ago
  > pantograph electric trucks This works better for buses, since you can get a lot of utility out of fairly little infrastructure since buses are most useful in the small regions where population density is the greatest. To electrify freight, we should start with trains. Those are the low hanging fruit; Europe has a lot of electrified freight rail but the US has virtually none. We could also start taxing the hell out of long haul trucking; the US already has a great deal of freight rail (unlike passenger rail) and it could get even more use if we invested in upgrading those lines and discouraged long-haul trucking. But the hard part, getting the right of ways for rail, is already done.
  - bombcar 3y ago
    Yeah rail is exceptionally low hanging fruit especially since there are any number of diesel motive commuter and intercity trains that could be upgraded today for reasonable amounts of cash (depending on where in the climate fight they fall). They’re nice because the total track miles are low and they don’t leave their area, nor need to worry about loading and unloading containers, etc.
    - theluketaylor 3y ago
      Especially with a little bit of battery in the locomotive. A huge chunk of the expensive to string overhead wires for pantographs is bridges, tunnels, and other obstructions not sized for the space needed for the wires. If the train can supply some power to hop between some relatively small gaps suddenly the whole project is pretty affordable. Same thinking applies to trolly buses. If the bus can supply its own power through intersections and when moving between routes or just around the bus depot suddenly nearly all the logistical headaches of trolly buses go away and the same amount of battery that would get you 1 BEV bus gets you a whole fleet of trolley buses going all over the city.

rippercushions 3y ago

Inductive highway charging is entirely feasible and there have been various experiments around the world for years now. The main issue is how to fund outfitting cars to make use of it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_road https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_road

woodruffw 3y ago
Experiments are evidence of feasibility studies, not feasibility itself. From the article, the main deployments of induction in roadbeds have been a small pilot program[1] in South Korea and an unrealized plan in Sweden. The South Korean deployment has apparently (partially?) shut down since. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Online_electric_vehicle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Online_electric_vehicle
- rippercushions 3y ago
  The Swedish plan is very much being realized, they've been testing since 2012 and they're building out the first permanent segment by 2027. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish_Transport_Administration_electric_road_program https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish_Transport_Administrati... The challenge is not the technology itself, but funding, standards, scaling it out etc etc.
  - woodruffw 3y ago
    Given that it doesn't exist yet (and that the only comparable example was partially decommissioned), I don't think we're in a position to claim that the technology is ready. We've barely had the "easy" wireless charging scenario (small, stationary devices, low power draws) for a decade; it isn't even remotely clear that vehicles sizes and speeds, clearances, road conditions, etc. have received adequate consideration yet.
- imtringued 3y ago
  In Germany they installed the inductive charger at the last bus station. The bus spends less than fifteen minutes charging. This isn't enough for the whole trip but if you start from a full charge you can last a while day.
Aperocky 3y ago
Of course it's "feasible" I can also hire a helicopter to commute, it will be feasible until I run out of money.

dataviz1000 3y ago

Or like Meta and Magic Leap? I don't see reason to criticize investing billions of dollars in innovative projects with a high probability of failure. All these projects generate massive amounts of knowledge which might be allied in the future if not now. As these projects fail, the researchers and employees moving might not have an idea how to accomplish something but rather will know several ways not to accomplish something which is valuable too.

bombcar 3y ago

Pantographs for trucks has been shown in operation, and we've had trolley-busses forever - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3P_S7pL7Yg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3P_S7pL7Yg While it's unlikely to be adopted for cars, it seems a cheaper and more reasonable first step at electrification (though the USA can't even electrify its rail and that sits there and goes nowhere and is a minimal cost). Electrification of rail is something like $5m a track/mile - electrification of all rail in Los Angeles could be done for something in the low few billions. Add electric trucks for $20-50b more, and suddenly LA is much cleaner, and you've not touched a single car.

George83728 3y ago
> pantograph electric trucks This works better for buses, since you can get a lot of utility out of fairly little infrastructure since buses are most useful in the small regions where population density is the greatest. To electrify freight, we should start with trains. Those are the low hanging fruit; Europe has a lot of electrified freight rail but the US has virtually none. We could also start taxing the hell out of long haul trucking; the US already has a great deal of freight rail (unlike passenger rail) and it could get even more use if we invested in upgrading those lines and discouraged long-haul trucking. But the hard part, getting the right of ways for rail, is already done.
- bombcar 3y ago
  Yeah rail is exceptionally low hanging fruit especially since there are any number of diesel motive commuter and intercity trains that could be upgraded today for reasonable amounts of cash (depending on where in the climate fight they fall). They’re nice because the total track miles are low and they don’t leave their area, nor need to worry about loading and unloading containers, etc.
  - theluketaylor 3y ago
    Especially with a little bit of battery in the locomotive. A huge chunk of the expensive to string overhead wires for pantographs is bridges, tunnels, and other obstructions not sized for the space needed for the wires. If the train can supply some power to hop between some relatively small gaps suddenly the whole project is pretty affordable. Same thinking applies to trolly buses. If the bus can supply its own power through intersections and when moving between routes or just around the bus depot suddenly nearly all the logistical headaches of trolly buses go away and the same amount of battery that would get you 1 BEV bus gets you a whole fleet of trolley buses going all over the city.