5 ms·

That brings up an interesting question: “Is NEMA 5-15 in fact standardized by force of law?”

dijit 4y ago
No, you can have receptacles of any shape in the USA, at least at the federal level. However it's not uncommon for this to be enforced by law, for example it is a legal requirement that in the UK all goods sold must adhere to the BS 1363-1 standard.
- CydeWeys 4y ago
  Ok, how about at most state levels then? I seriously doubt you could wire up new construction in a completely nonstandard way and then expect to pass inspection.
  - riskable 4y ago
    I'm pretty sore 100% of all US states mandate that all new construction adhere to the National Electrical Code (NEC). Specifically, NFPA 70. They just delegate the authority as to what's "standard" to that non-governmental body. Every few years the National Fire Protection Agency (NFPA)--which is a non-governmental nonprofit--publishes an updated standard and then it's up to all the state legislatures to update the laws to require the new standard. The problem is that the NFPA doesn't just post the NEC for free on the Internet. You have to pay for it (which is ridiculous) and it's copyrighted and as such, illegal to just give away. There was a lawsuit in Georgia that was supposed to determine whether or not that situation was OK (having laws that require expensive fees to view may be unconstitutional since that's like having secret laws). I don't know what the outcome was of that though.
    - themaninthedark 4y ago
      Part of the Georgia problem is that our laws are the same way! The legislators would vote to adopt case law that had added notes/ guidance by a third party, the third party would change fees to view what is then now the law!
      - Multicomp 4y ago
        https://www.abajournal.com/news/article/after-supreme-court-copyright-fight-georgia-makes-annotated-legal-code-freely-available https://www.abajournal.com/news/article/after-supreme-court-... The Supreme Court in 2020 ruled that OGCA is not copyrightable, this in 2022 indicates that it has been made available to the public for free.
        themaninthedark 4y ago
        Nice, I missed that! Glad to hear that some sanity was injected back into the system!
    - sokoloff 4y ago
      > I'm pretty [sure] 100% of all US states mandate that all new construction adhere to the National Electrical Code (NEC). There are four states who have not adopted the NEC on a statewide basis, leaving any such decision to the local authorities having jurisdiction: Arizona, Illinois, Mississippi, and Missouri.
philistine 4y ago
I think you can make a legal arguement that the way the standards are enshrined in law and there are legal consequences for straying from agreed upon standards, that it is indeed standardized by force of law.
- cf100clunk 4y ago
  Further to the de jure standardization related to consumer safety laws and civil cases, the insurance industry has created a de facto standardization by refusing to cover or pay out if non-standard electric plugs and receptacles are or were used.
joenathanone 4y ago
Yes, via building/construction codes.
- adrr 4y ago
  And we are stuck on AC which is a terrible and wasteful way to move electricity. How much energy is wasted converting AC to DC?
  - ghouse 4y ago
    Rectifiers (which convert AC to DC) are quite efficient. Apparently up to 98% [0] And then there is the voltage conversion, which traditionally happened on the AC side (inexpensive and simple AC transformers are generally why the transmission and distribution systems are AC). Modern power supplies allow for buck/boost on the DC side. USB-C power supplies are above 90% efficient. [1] [0] https://eepower.com/new-industry-products/huawei-claims-most-efficient-rectifier-at-98-conversion-efficiency/ https://eepower.com/new-industry-products/huawei-claims-most... [1] https://www.ti.com/lit/ug/tidudw2c/tidudw2c.pdf?ts=1683500425525& https://www.ti.com/lit/ug/tidudw2c/tidudw2c.pdf?ts=168350042...
  - phkahler 4y ago
    >> And we are stuck on AC which is a terrible and wasteful way to move electricity. That's a really strange thing to see here on HN. Where did you get this idea? BTW Europe having 3-phase AC to the home is brilliant. Wish we had that in the U.S.
    - adrr 4y ago
      Fact that the US main power distribution network(eg: pacific DC intertie)runs on DC that we concert back to AC for regional distribution and then back to DC to power our houses like lights, tv, electronics etc. AC is inefficient long distances and still needs to be converted to DC to power our stuff.
      - phkahler 4y ago
ajsnigrutin 4y ago
Funnily enough, power plugs are far from standardized within EU, and there are multiple non-compatible variants (well, one less after the brexit).
- Symbiote 4y ago
  Ireland, Malta and Cyprus use British plugs and other electrical standards.

No, you can have receptacles of any shape in the USA, at least at the federal level. However it's not uncommon for this to be enforced by law, for example it is a legal requirement that in the UK all goods sold must adhere to the BS 1363-1 standard.

CydeWeys 4y ago
Ok, how about at most state levels then? I seriously doubt you could wire up new construction in a completely nonstandard way and then expect to pass inspection.
- riskable 4y ago
  I'm pretty sore 100% of all US states mandate that all new construction adhere to the National Electrical Code (NEC). Specifically, NFPA 70. They just delegate the authority as to what's "standard" to that non-governmental body. Every few years the National Fire Protection Agency (NFPA)--which is a non-governmental nonprofit--publishes an updated standard and then it's up to all the state legislatures to update the laws to require the new standard. The problem is that the NFPA doesn't just post the NEC for free on the Internet. You have to pay for it (which is ridiculous) and it's copyrighted and as such, illegal to just give away. There was a lawsuit in Georgia that was supposed to determine whether or not that situation was OK (having laws that require expensive fees to view may be unconstitutional since that's like having secret laws). I don't know what the outcome was of that though.
  - themaninthedark 4y ago
    Part of the Georgia problem is that our laws are the same way! The legislators would vote to adopt case law that had added notes/ guidance by a third party, the third party would change fees to view what is then now the law!
    - Multicomp 4y ago
      https://www.abajournal.com/news/article/after-supreme-court-copyright-fight-georgia-makes-annotated-legal-code-freely-available https://www.abajournal.com/news/article/after-supreme-court-... The Supreme Court in 2020 ruled that OGCA is not copyrightable, this in 2022 indicates that it has been made available to the public for free.
      - themaninthedark 4y ago
        Nice, I missed that! Glad to hear that some sanity was injected back into the system!
  - sokoloff 4y ago
    > I'm pretty [sure] 100% of all US states mandate that all new construction adhere to the National Electrical Code (NEC). There are four states who have not adopted the NEC on a statewide basis, leaving any such decision to the local authorities having jurisdiction: Arizona, Illinois, Mississippi, and Missouri.

philistine 4y ago

I think you can make a legal arguement that the way the standards are enshrined in law and there are legal consequences for straying from agreed upon standards, that it is indeed standardized by force of law.

cf100clunk 4y ago
Further to the de jure standardization related to consumer safety laws and civil cases, the insurance industry has created a de facto standardization by refusing to cover or pay out if non-standard electric plugs and receptacles are or were used.

joenathanone 4y ago

Yes, via building/construction codes.

adrr 4y ago
And we are stuck on AC which is a terrible and wasteful way to move electricity. How much energy is wasted converting AC to DC?
- ghouse 4y ago
  Rectifiers (which convert AC to DC) are quite efficient. Apparently up to 98% [0] And then there is the voltage conversion, which traditionally happened on the AC side (inexpensive and simple AC transformers are generally why the transmission and distribution systems are AC). Modern power supplies allow for buck/boost on the DC side. USB-C power supplies are above 90% efficient. [1] [0] https://eepower.com/new-industry-products/huawei-claims-most-efficient-rectifier-at-98-conversion-efficiency/ https://eepower.com/new-industry-products/huawei-claims-most... [1] https://www.ti.com/lit/ug/tidudw2c/tidudw2c.pdf?ts=1683500425525& https://www.ti.com/lit/ug/tidudw2c/tidudw2c.pdf?ts=168350042...
- phkahler 4y ago
  >> And we are stuck on AC which is a terrible and wasteful way to move electricity. That's a really strange thing to see here on HN. Where did you get this idea? BTW Europe having 3-phase AC to the home is brilliant. Wish we had that in the U.S.
  - adrr 4y ago
    Fact that the US main power distribution network(eg: pacific DC intertie)runs on DC that we concert back to AC for regional distribution and then back to DC to power our houses like lights, tv, electronics etc. AC is inefficient long distances and still needs to be converted to DC to power our stuff.
    - phkahler 4y ago

ajsnigrutin 4y ago

Funnily enough, power plugs are far from standardized within EU, and there are multiple non-compatible variants (well, one less after the brexit).

Symbiote 4y ago
Ireland, Malta and Cyprus use British plugs and other electrical standards.