4 ms·

Is it wrong that my immediate reaction to this is, "Sweet, so I can finally do things with my board I was prevented from before!"

lakomen 4y ago
It was mine as well. They artificially limited both discrete and on board GPU being active at the same time in my GT72's BIOS.
charcircuit 4y ago
[flagged]
- solarkraft 4y ago
  I'd be happy about security features if they weren't used against me.
  - charcircuit 4y ago
    Making the hardware you bought secure is the opposite of it being used against you.
    - TheNewsIsHere 4y ago
      I don’t agree with that framing. You can absolutely hide behind security to justify actions that are hostile to users. Companies do it _all the time_. There is room for both of these to be true.
    - pxmpxm 4y ago
      Me doing whatever I want with stuff I bought is the definition of ownership. I'm starting to think that these sort of "CVE bro" posts are part of an intentional campaign by manufacturers trying to hold on to their rent seeking scheme. John Deere et al was definitely trying to use those arguments recently.
      - charcircuit 4y ago
        The big issue is that there is not a good way for the hardware to tell that the you are the owner and not an attacker.
      - KyeRussell 4y ago
        This is just absurd, dishonest, overly emotive language, built upon sand of the parent argument that people even care about this in the first place. You aren’t a farmer and your crappy MSI consumer hardware isn’t a tractor.
    - flangola7 4y ago
      I am not interested in securing my hardware again changes I want to make.
      - naikrovek 4y ago
        please tell us what changes you would like to make.
      - charcircuit 4y ago
        There is likely a way to do that in a secure way. Such as the firmware providing a menu that lets you configure different things.
- xvfLJfx9 4y ago
  Can't you enroll your own keys?
  - charcircuit 4y ago
    Enrolling keys doesn't make secure boot insecure.
- dawidpotocki 4y ago
  Secure Boot was already very broken on these boards. By default it does nothing and even if you change settings so that it actually does validation, it should be possible to reset it back from the OS by updating the firmware from the OS as there are no locks for the firmware region.
xbar 4y ago
Not at all, in this case. There is a giant pile of hardware in the world that relies on unsigned hardware. Meanwhile, MSI uses its hardware signing to hurt its customers. Will some MSI users get tricked into using malicious firmware? Doubtless, eventually. That's sad. But not nearly as sad as the millions of users who can't use their own computers in a manner of their choosing. Celebrate, without remorse.
- rainsford 4y ago
  I get that argument, but I'm not sure you have the relative population sizes right. It seems a bit doubtful that millions of MSI users are interested in flashing custom firmware on their motherboards, but every user is potentially impacted by signed malware. Particularly since the firmware signing is a known thing and there's less restricted hardware available. People really interested in being able to do whatever they want with their hardware are presumably purchasing accordingly. Like I said, I get the support for increased openness and freedom in hardware and the appeal that has to some users. But security is a feature that a lot of users (even power users) care about too, and it's bad when that feature breaks.
  - tracker1 4y ago
    Not to mention the split brain of US/TW/CN support sides for computer hardware and actually finding the correct firmware/bios images to begin with, which would make it all that much more easy for third parties to get fake sites up/out. Asus seems to have had several design issues, qc flaws and other support issues lately. MSI have had data breaches, and even then bully reviewers to the point you really can't trust a lot of their product reviews or them. Gigabyte treats their Linux using customers like hot garbage, and then there's the exploding PSU coverup/downplay. I'm not sure how many options that's leaving on the table at this point. I know there's ASRock for MBs and haven't seen anything bad about them lately.

lakomen 4y ago

It was mine as well. They artificially limited both discrete and on board GPU being active at the same time in my GT72's BIOS.

charcircuit 4y ago

[flagged]

solarkraft 4y ago
I'd be happy about security features if they weren't used against me.
- charcircuit 4y ago
  Making the hardware you bought secure is the opposite of it being used against you.
  - TheNewsIsHere 4y ago
    I don’t agree with that framing. You can absolutely hide behind security to justify actions that are hostile to users. Companies do it _all the time_. There is room for both of these to be true.
  - pxmpxm 4y ago
    Me doing whatever I want with stuff I bought is the definition of ownership. I'm starting to think that these sort of "CVE bro" posts are part of an intentional campaign by manufacturers trying to hold on to their rent seeking scheme. John Deere et al was definitely trying to use those arguments recently.
    - charcircuit 4y ago
      The big issue is that there is not a good way for the hardware to tell that the you are the owner and not an attacker.
    - KyeRussell 4y ago
      This is just absurd, dishonest, overly emotive language, built upon sand of the parent argument that people even care about this in the first place. You aren’t a farmer and your crappy MSI consumer hardware isn’t a tractor.
  - flangola7 4y ago
    I am not interested in securing my hardware again changes I want to make.
    - naikrovek 4y ago
      please tell us what changes you would like to make.
    - charcircuit 4y ago
      There is likely a way to do that in a secure way. Such as the firmware providing a menu that lets you configure different things.
xvfLJfx9 4y ago
Can't you enroll your own keys?
- charcircuit 4y ago
  Enrolling keys doesn't make secure boot insecure.
dawidpotocki 4y ago
Secure Boot was already very broken on these boards. By default it does nothing and even if you change settings so that it actually does validation, it should be possible to reset it back from the OS by updating the firmware from the OS as there are no locks for the firmware region.

xbar 4y ago

Not at all, in this case. There is a giant pile of hardware in the world that relies on unsigned hardware. Meanwhile, MSI uses its hardware signing to hurt its customers. Will some MSI users get tricked into using malicious firmware? Doubtless, eventually. That's sad. But not nearly as sad as the millions of users who can't use their own computers in a manner of their choosing. Celebrate, without remorse.

rainsford 4y ago
I get that argument, but I'm not sure you have the relative population sizes right. It seems a bit doubtful that millions of MSI users are interested in flashing custom firmware on their motherboards, but every user is potentially impacted by signed malware. Particularly since the firmware signing is a known thing and there's less restricted hardware available. People really interested in being able to do whatever they want with their hardware are presumably purchasing accordingly. Like I said, I get the support for increased openness and freedom in hardware and the appeal that has to some users. But security is a feature that a lot of users (even power users) care about too, and it's bad when that feature breaks.
- tracker1 4y ago
  Not to mention the split brain of US/TW/CN support sides for computer hardware and actually finding the correct firmware/bios images to begin with, which would make it all that much more easy for third parties to get fake sites up/out. Asus seems to have had several design issues, qc flaws and other support issues lately. MSI have had data breaches, and even then bully reviewers to the point you really can't trust a lot of their product reviews or them. Gigabyte treats their Linux using customers like hot garbage, and then there's the exploding PSU coverup/downplay. I'm not sure how many options that's leaving on the table at this point. I know there's ASRock for MBs and haven't seen anything bad about them lately.