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"impose my preference on everyone else" By fixing a common mistake on a collaboratively edited encyclopedia? What are you even talking about? Do you have any i

"impose my preference on everyone else" By fixing a common mistake on a collaboratively edited encyclopedia? What are you even talking about? Do you have any idea what an editor does at the New York Times?

prepend 3y ago
But it’s not a mistake to everyone, it’s just a mistake in this person and some others eyes. But it’s an accepted usage of the words. I’m not exactly familiar with specific editorial duties, but it seems NYTimes editors allow “comprised of” [0] so they don’t seem to correct all occurrences of “comprised of” by changing text to “composed of.” [0] https://www.google.com/search?q=%22comprised+of%22+site%3Anytimes.com&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8 https://www.google.com/search?q=%22comprised+of%22+site%3Any...
- inimino 3y ago
  Yes it's a mistake exactly in the eyes of those who know the meaning of the word. "com" + "prise" = "grasp together". An error can be more common than the correct usage and still be an error. Would you accept "A table setting is included of plate, fork, knife and spoon." as correct usage? What if "included" becomes rarely used in the future and this incorrect usage becomes relatively popular? Would that make it correct? Nonsense. The job of an editor is to raise the level of the writing before it goes to print, including fixing common mistakes. A professional writer would just learn something from it and improve. What I'm amazed by is the number of people who seem outraged, like someone's right to freedom of expression is being violated because someone came along after and removed some mistakes and improved the writing, literally a Wikipedia editor just doing the job of an editor. And then a whole essay has to be written justifying it, and that's still not enough, and we are all discussing it even further. It's a remarkable phenomenon. It makes me wonder if software developers are as defensive about common programming mistakes. If so we might have a bit of a problem.
  - dllthomas 3y ago
    > "com" + "prise" = "grasp together". This is a terrible argument first because etymology is not meaning, but more importantly because "grasp together" doesn't seem to rule out the errant meaning. "This table setting grasps together a plate, a cup, and several pieces of silverware." seems if anything less wrong than "A plate, a cup, and several pieces of flatware grasp together this table setting."
    - inimino 3y ago
      Your argument is that etymology doesn't matter, but you also make the etymological argument the other way? Well, ok, but we are not criticizing use of "comprise" but of "comprised of". This table setting grasps together [three things]. This table setting comprises three things. This table setting [together grasps] three things. These are all correct. *This table setting is grasped of a plate, cup, and flatware. *This table setting is comprised of a plate, cup and flatware. *This is grasped-together of a plate, cup, and flatware. These are all wrong, for the same reason (so it can't be the Oxford comma). If you wouldn't say it out loud with "comprised of" replaced by "included of", then it's wrong. That's the simple rule. The backwards version is "The plate, cup, and flatware is comprised of the place setting" means "The plate, cup, and flatware is the total-grasping-together of the place setting." It becomes clear if you write it this way how awkward it is, and the preposition clearly seems like the wrong one, so this is why the standard advice is just to avoid this confused, clunky phrasing.
      - dllthomas 3y ago
        My point was that your argument was bad, not that we should misuse "comprise." So yes, I noted that etymology doesn't matter when determining modern meaning, but went on to point out that even if we assume that it does the argument doesn't hold up, because it's a terrible argument. You talk a lot here, but none of it actually follows. People write "is comprised of" because they confused it with "is composed of". "Com-pose" means "place together"; doing the same things does not make clear which should be which way 'round. For the record, I kinda like having a separate word for "makes up" versus "is made up of" and would prefer people stop confusing the two. I just don't think we need garbage arguments in support.
  - vehemenz 3y ago
    > Would that make it correct? Nonsense. Why not? Plenty of English words evolved this way. What's the problem exactly? In linguistic terms, "comprised of" in English is commonly accepted and understood, and usage almost always overrides "logic" or other rules and regularities in the language.
    - inimino 3y ago
      Every time it happens it gets harder for the next generation to read Shakespeare. Just because something has changed a lot is not an argument for changing it more.

prepend 3y ago

But it’s not a mistake to everyone, it’s just a mistake in this person and some others eyes. But it’s an accepted usage of the words. I’m not exactly familiar with specific editorial duties, but it seems NYTimes editors allow “comprised of” [0] so they don’t seem to correct all occurrences of “comprised of” by changing text to “composed of.” [0] https://www.google.com/search?q=%22comprised+of%22+site%3Anytimes.com&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8 https://www.google.com/search?q=%22comprised+of%22+site%3Any...

inimino 3y ago
Yes it's a mistake exactly in the eyes of those who know the meaning of the word. "com" + "prise" = "grasp together". An error can be more common than the correct usage and still be an error. Would you accept "A table setting is included of plate, fork, knife and spoon." as correct usage? What if "included" becomes rarely used in the future and this incorrect usage becomes relatively popular? Would that make it correct? Nonsense. The job of an editor is to raise the level of the writing before it goes to print, including fixing common mistakes. A professional writer would just learn something from it and improve. What I'm amazed by is the number of people who seem outraged, like someone's right to freedom of expression is being violated because someone came along after and removed some mistakes and improved the writing, literally a Wikipedia editor just doing the job of an editor. And then a whole essay has to be written justifying it, and that's still not enough, and we are all discussing it even further. It's a remarkable phenomenon. It makes me wonder if software developers are as defensive about common programming mistakes. If so we might have a bit of a problem.
- dllthomas 3y ago
  > "com" + "prise" = "grasp together". This is a terrible argument first because etymology is not meaning, but more importantly because "grasp together" doesn't seem to rule out the errant meaning. "This table setting grasps together a plate, a cup, and several pieces of silverware." seems if anything less wrong than "A plate, a cup, and several pieces of flatware grasp together this table setting."
  - inimino 3y ago
    Your argument is that etymology doesn't matter, but you also make the etymological argument the other way? Well, ok, but we are not criticizing use of "comprise" but of "comprised of". This table setting grasps together [three things]. This table setting comprises three things. This table setting [together grasps] three things. These are all correct. *This table setting is grasped of a plate, cup, and flatware. *This table setting is comprised of a plate, cup and flatware. *This is grasped-together of a plate, cup, and flatware. These are all wrong, for the same reason (so it can't be the Oxford comma). If you wouldn't say it out loud with "comprised of" replaced by "included of", then it's wrong. That's the simple rule. The backwards version is "The plate, cup, and flatware is comprised of the place setting" means "The plate, cup, and flatware is the total-grasping-together of the place setting." It becomes clear if you write it this way how awkward it is, and the preposition clearly seems like the wrong one, so this is why the standard advice is just to avoid this confused, clunky phrasing.
    - dllthomas 3y ago
      My point was that your argument was bad, not that we should misuse "comprise." So yes, I noted that etymology doesn't matter when determining modern meaning, but went on to point out that even if we assume that it does the argument doesn't hold up, because it's a terrible argument. You talk a lot here, but none of it actually follows. People write "is comprised of" because they confused it with "is composed of". "Com-pose" means "place together"; doing the same things does not make clear which should be which way 'round. For the record, I kinda like having a separate word for "makes up" versus "is made up of" and would prefer people stop confusing the two. I just don't think we need garbage arguments in support.
- vehemenz 3y ago
  > Would that make it correct? Nonsense. Why not? Plenty of English words evolved this way. What's the problem exactly? In linguistic terms, "comprised of" in English is commonly accepted and understood, and usage almost always overrides "logic" or other rules and regularities in the language.
  - inimino 3y ago
    Every time it happens it gets harder for the next generation to read Shakespeare. Just because something has changed a lot is not an argument for changing it more.