11 ms·

> relationship was all that different It's not the relationships of the parties in control that worries me. It's the arrests and abductions of the people that

> relationship was all that different It's not the relationships of the parties in control that worries me. It's the arrests and abductions of the people that concerns me. Thankfully, posting banned ideas or government critical stuff in the US doesn't involve being arrested by the police and being held for months or years. The CCP is a completely different beast, it has no issues jailing people for speaking the wrong things, forcing it's citizens into reeducation camps, welding them locked into buildings and much worse.

falcolas 3y ago
[flagged]
- boc 3y ago
  What are you talking about? You need to cite sources about people in the US getting “vanished” for simply using a VPN. This is sounding like agitprop.
  - falcolas 3y ago
    > You need to cite sources about people in the US getting “vanished” for simply using a VPN. The restrict act hasn't passed yet. So no, I can't cite anything but the jail time and fines proposed in the bill.
    - pessimizer 3y ago
      We must pass the Restrict Act, because anyone arguing against the Restrict Act will have no evidence against the Restrict Act until we pass the Restrict Act. Sadly, the passage of the Restrict Act will require those arguing against the Restrict Act to be jailed for Misinformation on Behalf of a Foreign Power if they have no evidence. If they do have evidence, however, they will be jailed under the Espionage Act.
- yafbum 3y ago
  Who has been "vanished"in the US? Jack Ma was essentially on house arrest for over a year after flying a little too close to the sun with his IPO plans. Peng Shuai was on house arrest for denouncing sexual abuse by a CCP member. The psychological, widespread chilling effects of these high profile "vanishings" has absolutely no commonality with the Patriot act (bad as it is).
  - pphysch 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - sva_ 3y ago
      Could you let us in on your insider sources who know what happened to them during that time?
      - pphysch 3y ago
        There is no evidence, just speculation, that they were under arrest. They both said they were not. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell%27s_teapot https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell%27s_teapot
        voakbasda 3y ago
        There is sufficient evidence to believe that the CCP held a gun to their heads in order to coerce those statement. Quite possibly literally.
        lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 3y ago
        I would be interested in seeing that if you happen to have it available.
        pphysch 3y ago
        [flagged]
- stickfigure 3y ago
  > And you don't have to look too many years back in time to find concentration camps for specific ethnicities. None of the perpetrators of that event are still alive, let alone in positions of power. Eighty qualifies as "too many years back".
  - falcolas 3y ago
    I doubt that Emiko Omori and her surviving contemporaries would agree with you. Emiko Omori is a survivor of the Poston internment camp in Arizona.
    - stickfigure 3y ago
      She's still alive because she was 4 at the time... you can't say the same about the perpetrators. There's nobody left to prosecute, they're all dead. Ancestral sin is not part of the justice system. Bad things done 80 years ago do not excuse bad things done by someone else today. We're not all entitled to a turn at mass murder or genocide. That's now how morality works.
      - musicale 3y ago
        > There's nobody left to prosecute, they're all dead. Ancestral sin is not part of the justice system. Perhaps, but the government can still do something: apologize for the original injustice, provide some compensation, and try to prevent similar occurrences in the future. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Liberties_Act_of_1988 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Liberties_Act_of_1988
  - pessimizer 3y ago
    My parents and grandparents lived under Jim Crow.
    - ipaddr 3y ago
      80 years ago.. validating parent's post
  - 3y ago
- AnimalMuppet 3y ago
  > And you don't have to look too many years back in time to find concentration camps for specific ethnicities. Two things here. First, 1945 was a long time ago. Second, the interment of Japanese-Americans was shameful. It was a concentration camp. It was not intended to make them "un-Japanese" or to destroy their culture. What's happening to the Uighurs is different on both fronts. It's right now. And it's not just "we'll round up these people and put them in a camp to keep them from maybe doing espionage for a country that we're currently at war with". It's "we're going to completely destroy their cultural identity". What China is doing meets the definition of genocide (even if they aren't killing people, they're killing their ability to be part of "a people"). What the US did was shameful and was falling far short of our ideals as a nation, but it was short of genocide.
  - pessimizer 3y ago
    > What's happening to the Uighurs is different on both fronts. It's right now. No it's not, it's four or five years ago.
    - ted_dunning 3y ago
      It is still going on. It was definitely four or five years ago, but it was also definitely happening at about the same rate ever since. Nobody but a shill would reasonably say otherwise.
  - onepointsixC 3y ago
    >What China is doing meets the definition of genocide (even if they aren't killing people, they're killing their ability to be part of "a people"). What China is doing meets the textbook definition of genocide precisely because they are purposefully restricting birthrates.
- lo_zamoyski 3y ago
  > No, the US is not as bad as the CCP. But it has its own issues you can easily find yourself on the wrong side of based off your skin color or ethnicity. Or traditional religious and political views that do not agree with the failed doctrines of the regime [0]. [0] https://catholicherald.co.uk/fbi-spied-on-american-catholics-amid-suspicion-of-links-to-right-wing-groups-documents-reveal/ https://catholicherald.co.uk/fbi-spied-on-american-catholics...
- lazyeye 3y ago
  Ridiculous hyperbole.
jonhohle 3y ago
[flagged]
- 2OEH8eoCRo0 3y ago
  > Julian Assange is not a journalist https://apnews.com/article/52f4a2f42dba4f6b9afe026e57d51e96 https://apnews.com/article/52f4a2f42dba4f6b9afe026e57d51e96 https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/04/julian-assange-got-what-he-deserved/587008/ https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/04/julian-ass...
  - trackflak 3y ago
    I'd be surprised if the state didn't utilise its network of media contacts to discredit him.
    - 2OEH8eoCRo0 3y ago
      So you're just going to assert, in drive-by fashion, that these journalists are government shills? Do you have any evidence that supports that claim? Do you say that about everyone that you disagree with?
      - uoaei 3y ago
        [flagged]
      - TheRealDunkirk 3y ago
        [flagged]
      - somenameforme 3y ago
        It's kind of funny. At first I was going to say, what do you expect - a line on his CV 'worked as a medium for US propaganda'? But bizarrely enough, that's completely accurate. Michael Weiss is editor in chief at the 'Institute of Modern Russia.' It's part of Radio Free Europe [2], which is literally a propaganda outlet owned by the US government. But the reason I decided to look this up is something much more simple than these facts. That Atlantic article reeks of state propaganda, and if it's not sending your propaganda detector to 11, you really need to get it tuned a bit - especially in this day and age. More often than not, you're not going to be able to find a link on somebody's CV or Wiki or whatever directly tying them to state interests, but I mean this just isn't how "normal" people think, behave, or write. It's like he's desperately trying to convince you of a position, by making you believe that thinking otherwise would be absurd. Note the stark similarities in style and rhetoric to something like this [3] piece from the NYtimes in the leadup to the Iraq War. [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institute_of_Modern_Russia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institute_of_Modern_Russia [2] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_Free_Europe/Radio_Liberty https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_Free_Europe/Radio_Libert... [3] - https://www.nytimes.com/2003/02/06/opinion/irrefutable-and-undeniable.html https://www.nytimes.com/2003/02/06/opinion/irrefutable-and-u...
toss1 3y ago
>>posting banned ideas or government critical stuff in the US doesn't involve being arrested by the police and being held for months or years. I would not be so confident about that, at least until the US and other western countries wise up to the CCP's tactics, which may be starting. E.g., CCP is running overseas "police stations" to intimidate and harrass people oversead, and the US FBI finally just arrested two people doing so in New York City. >>TikTok spied on me. Why? Short answer, is that it, along with every other Chinese company, has no choice other than to bend to the will of the CCP. Plus, they have no ethical boundaries (other than crossing the CCP) in seeking absolute market position, and this journalist had done something to threaten that dominant position. [0] https://www.npr.org/2023/04/17/1170571626/fbi-arrests-2-on-charges-tied-to-chinese-outpost-in-new-york-city https://www.npr.org/2023/04/17/1170571626/fbi-arrests-2-on-c...
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
drevil-v2 3y ago
[flagged]
- zht 3y ago
  Those are physical acts of violence?
- mint2 3y ago
  “Protesters” aka Jan 6 rioters and insurrectionists attempting to overthrow democracy by invading the capital.
- alpos 3y ago
  They may indeed like to disagree, as I'm sure anyone who has broken the law would and is entitled to. Hence the existence of a fair trial and the possibility of a "not guilty" plea along with the opportunity to present a defense before a jury. One could argue about the fairness of any trial or set of trials, of course, and we should definitely do that and work out what we the people think of those trials as well as what we want to see in a fair trial. However, if you are trying to say that what those people did was just a protest or just speech, you will need to address the actual crimes the people going to jail were charged with and convicted of. Otherwise, your argument there is not convincing at all. It's not just free speech when you destroy property, break into government buildings, assault cops and government employees, actually invade and interrupt a session of congress, trespass in government offices, and actually try to locate the vice-president with the loudly declared intent to hang him.
Convolutional 3y ago
> Thankfully, posting banned ideas or government critical stuff in the US doesn't involve being arrested by the police and being held for months or years. Let me think of groups of people in the US and if they have been treated like this - C language programmers...we'll there is Julian Assange. > no issues jailing people for speaking the wrong things, forcing it's citizens into reeducation camps, welding them locked into buildings China has more than four times the US population, yet the US incarcerates more people than China does. In that context it does not sound like much of a knock "China locks up less than a quarter of the people the US does!" Well - yes.
- lisper 3y ago
  > the US incarcerates more people than China does Yes, but mostly because of race, not politics. (Not that that's any better, but the underlying dynamic really is different.)
  - 0000011111 3y ago
    Right the book The New Jim Crow: Mass Incarceration in the Age of Colorblindness is a good primer for this concept. https://www.googleadservices.com/pagead/aclk?sa=L&ai=DChcSEwi4l5yoyd7-AhWG8-MHHQi2C6wYABAAGgJ5bQ&ohost=www.google.com&cid=CAESbeD2ASZz_7bsWiQ_5BFCAZ2wuqI0RRiv3bCQSTH4g8Pmbu2POusB9taySfFPoJNdBeMyBf2MsL7As_mYLopBuljac-mX_2Cei5VdRFe9jTZr_KyaYHn_J8174M28ix2sgqzxMwKX6cDUmiz1RW8&sig=AOD64_1ghZassSX5ETcNLYql03H3H0q7zA&q&adurl&ved=2ahUKEwiB_pGoyd7-AhX0kYkEHbt1AUoQ0Qx6BAgFEAE https://www.googleadservices.com/pagead/aclk?sa=L&ai=DChcSEw... Same with this wiki page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarceration_in_the_United_States#:~:text=According%20to%20the%20U.S.%20Bureau,18%25%20of%20the%20female%20population https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarceration_in_the_United_St....
    - ipaddr 3y ago
      Where is the harvesting of organs chapter?
      - gmerc 3y ago
hn_throawlles 3y ago
> Thankfully, posting banned ideas or government critical stuff in the US doesn't involve being arrested by the police and being held for months or years. regretfully, being poor and in certain parts of the USA is sufficient to get sucked up by the system. no ideology necessary, just getting caught and loaning money for bail is enough to get swallowed by this beast. i suppose the CCP pays for these systems directly? whereas the American way has a distributed system of crony 'entrepreneurs' (shoddy lawyers, loan sharks, court bureaucrats and so on) all keeping this system of private jails and other 'services' and industries built around people 'breaking the law'
pessimizer 3y ago
Black activists accused of sowing discord https://amsterdamnews.com/news/2023/05/04/black-activists-accused-of-sowing-discord/ https://amsterdamnews.com/news/2023/05/04/black-activists-ac... > Just because you advocate programs that are not aligned with or approved by the U.S. government, siding with anti-racist, anti-colonial forces should not make you a target of U.S. cointelpro actions, raids on the homes of citizens, and humiliating arrests.
- leereeves 3y ago
  > indicted on April 18 for allegedly working on behalf of the Russian government and Russian Federal Security Service (FSB) to conduct a “malign influence campaign” designed to “sow discord” and “advance Russian propaganda.”
- lo_zamoyski 3y ago
  Interesting slant, given developments like this[0]. [0] https://catholicherald.co.uk/fbi-spied-on-american-catholics-amid-suspicion-of-links-to-right-wing-groups-documents-reveal/ https://catholicherald.co.uk/fbi-spied-on-american-catholics...
- throwaway290 3y ago
  Your example is about what exactly? Yes Russia intervenes and China does too, you expect it to not be acted upon? By the way in China as of this month saying something that is against national interest is punishable under espionage law. If they want they can jail you for using VPN to access something outside of great firewall.
dpratt 3y ago
I have very little to fear, on a personal level, from the CCP. They may or may not be collecting data on me, and I find that distasteful and somewhat scary, but they are not a direct threat to my personal liberty, safety or civil rights. The NSA, CIA and the US intelligence-industrial complex, however, is a direct and credible threat to me. Perhaps not today, and hopefully not tomorrow, but as history has shown us, governments change, sometimes wildly so, in a short period of time while still holding the trappings and lip-service of their predecessors. If you dismiss the concerns about warrantless data collection, tracking, active suppression of free discourse and political targeting of people who ideologically threaten those in power (no matter the political background), well, you just haven't been paying attention.
- ipaddr 3y ago
  If you run a business, visit or know someone from China you will be targeted. If you try to publish an article against China and have a high profile your secrets will come out. But if you are nobody why worry about the NSA, FBI, etc they have better people to target
- imiric 3y ago
  You don't have to be a citizen of the nation that does the spying for the data they collect on you to be harmful. Following your logic, nobody outside of the US or China has reasons to be concerned, which is not the case. Governments—particularly those of the world's greatest superpowers—have influence outside of their borders, and can make your life hell, no matter where you currently live. They can restrict your freedom to travel, censor your public speech, and target you electronically in many ways. This can happen if you fall on their radar for whatever reason, including by mistake. Good luck getting off that list, and getting your life back after that. If I'm rating which government I'm more afraid of, it would be the one that has a totalitarian control over its citizens, and no regard for human life. Otherwise, they're all equally harmful to my wellbeing.
d0mine 3y ago
People were cancelled for much less in US
thiagoharry 3y ago
The Black Panthers and victims of Mcarthism wiuld disagree. The current whistleblowers like Snowden also would disagree.
- jacooper 3y ago
  And assange.
- BeFlatXIII 3y ago
  For these exact reasons, I'm more comfortable with Xi Jinping's cronies spying on my every movement than my own government. The Chinese only do that stuff to their own citizens and I'm a zero-value target to them. US authorities may feel like being petty one day.
  - kelipso 3y ago
    Seriously. What happened to that whole philosophy that the founding fathers had about being wary of our own government and the tendency of governments to overreach to control its citizenry. That entire sentiment seem to have disappeared especially in the last few years in favor of China-Russia-terrorism-whatever new bs hysteria.
    - thfuran 3y ago
      The red scare wasn't in the last few years.
  - bluefirebrand 3y ago
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detention_of_Michael_Spavor_and_Michael_Kovrig#:~:text=The%20detention%20of%20Michael%20Kovrig,by%20her%20father%20Ren%20Zhengfei https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detention_of_Michael_Spavor_.... China absolutely does not limit their abductions to their own citizens. If you're in China, you're fair game.
    - BeFlatXIII 3y ago
anigbrowl 3y ago
While I don't think the US is on the same scale as the CCP, I also think you're being a little naive. Expressing the wrong ideas or misjudging the time/place to do so can absolutely land you behind bars.
lenkite 3y ago
> Thankfully, posting banned ideas or government critical stuff in the US doesn't involve being arrested by the police and being held for months or years. Which parallel world are you living in ? I would like to migrate there to this utopian USA.

falcolas 3y ago

[flagged]

boc 3y ago
What are you talking about? You need to cite sources about people in the US getting “vanished” for simply using a VPN. This is sounding like agitprop.
- falcolas 3y ago
  > You need to cite sources about people in the US getting “vanished” for simply using a VPN. The restrict act hasn't passed yet. So no, I can't cite anything but the jail time and fines proposed in the bill.
  - pessimizer 3y ago
    We must pass the Restrict Act, because anyone arguing against the Restrict Act will have no evidence against the Restrict Act until we pass the Restrict Act. Sadly, the passage of the Restrict Act will require those arguing against the Restrict Act to be jailed for Misinformation on Behalf of a Foreign Power if they have no evidence. If they do have evidence, however, they will be jailed under the Espionage Act.
yafbum 3y ago
Who has been "vanished"in the US? Jack Ma was essentially on house arrest for over a year after flying a little too close to the sun with his IPO plans. Peng Shuai was on house arrest for denouncing sexual abuse by a CCP member. The psychological, widespread chilling effects of these high profile "vanishings" has absolutely no commonality with the Patriot act (bad as it is).
- pphysch 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - sva_ 3y ago
    Could you let us in on your insider sources who know what happened to them during that time?
    - pphysch 3y ago
      There is no evidence, just speculation, that they were under arrest. They both said they were not. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell%27s_teapot https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell%27s_teapot
      - voakbasda 3y ago
        There is sufficient evidence to believe that the CCP held a gun to their heads in order to coerce those statement. Quite possibly literally.
        lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 3y ago
        I would be interested in seeing that if you happen to have it available.
        pphysch 3y ago
        [flagged]
stickfigure 3y ago
> And you don't have to look too many years back in time to find concentration camps for specific ethnicities. None of the perpetrators of that event are still alive, let alone in positions of power. Eighty qualifies as "too many years back".
- falcolas 3y ago
  I doubt that Emiko Omori and her surviving contemporaries would agree with you. Emiko Omori is a survivor of the Poston internment camp in Arizona.
  - stickfigure 3y ago
    She's still alive because she was 4 at the time... you can't say the same about the perpetrators. There's nobody left to prosecute, they're all dead. Ancestral sin is not part of the justice system. Bad things done 80 years ago do not excuse bad things done by someone else today. We're not all entitled to a turn at mass murder or genocide. That's now how morality works.
    - musicale 3y ago
      > There's nobody left to prosecute, they're all dead. Ancestral sin is not part of the justice system. Perhaps, but the government can still do something: apologize for the original injustice, provide some compensation, and try to prevent similar occurrences in the future. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Liberties_Act_of_1988 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Liberties_Act_of_1988
- pessimizer 3y ago
  My parents and grandparents lived under Jim Crow.
  - ipaddr 3y ago
    80 years ago.. validating parent's post
- 3y ago
AnimalMuppet 3y ago
> And you don't have to look too many years back in time to find concentration camps for specific ethnicities. Two things here. First, 1945 was a long time ago. Second, the interment of Japanese-Americans was shameful. It was a concentration camp. It was not intended to make them "un-Japanese" or to destroy their culture. What's happening to the Uighurs is different on both fronts. It's right now. And it's not just "we'll round up these people and put them in a camp to keep them from maybe doing espionage for a country that we're currently at war with". It's "we're going to completely destroy their cultural identity". What China is doing meets the definition of genocide (even if they aren't killing people, they're killing their ability to be part of "a people"). What the US did was shameful and was falling far short of our ideals as a nation, but it was short of genocide.
- pessimizer 3y ago
  > What's happening to the Uighurs is different on both fronts. It's right now. No it's not, it's four or five years ago.
  - ted_dunning 3y ago
    It is still going on. It was definitely four or five years ago, but it was also definitely happening at about the same rate ever since. Nobody but a shill would reasonably say otherwise.
- onepointsixC 3y ago
  >What China is doing meets the definition of genocide (even if they aren't killing people, they're killing their ability to be part of "a people"). What China is doing meets the textbook definition of genocide precisely because they are purposefully restricting birthrates.
lo_zamoyski 3y ago
> No, the US is not as bad as the CCP. But it has its own issues you can easily find yourself on the wrong side of based off your skin color or ethnicity. Or traditional religious and political views that do not agree with the failed doctrines of the regime [0]. [0] https://catholicherald.co.uk/fbi-spied-on-american-catholics-amid-suspicion-of-links-to-right-wing-groups-documents-reveal/ https://catholicherald.co.uk/fbi-spied-on-american-catholics...
lazyeye 3y ago
Ridiculous hyperbole.

jonhohle 3y ago

[flagged]

2OEH8eoCRo0 3y ago
> Julian Assange is not a journalist https://apnews.com/article/52f4a2f42dba4f6b9afe026e57d51e96 https://apnews.com/article/52f4a2f42dba4f6b9afe026e57d51e96 https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/04/julian-assange-got-what-he-deserved/587008/ https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/04/julian-ass...
- trackflak 3y ago
  I'd be surprised if the state didn't utilise its network of media contacts to discredit him.
  - 2OEH8eoCRo0 3y ago
    So you're just going to assert, in drive-by fashion, that these journalists are government shills? Do you have any evidence that supports that claim? Do you say that about everyone that you disagree with?
    - uoaei 3y ago
      [flagged]
    - TheRealDunkirk 3y ago
      [flagged]
    - somenameforme 3y ago
      It's kind of funny. At first I was going to say, what do you expect - a line on his CV 'worked as a medium for US propaganda'? But bizarrely enough, that's completely accurate. Michael Weiss is editor in chief at the 'Institute of Modern Russia.' It's part of Radio Free Europe [2], which is literally a propaganda outlet owned by the US government. But the reason I decided to look this up is something much more simple than these facts. That Atlantic article reeks of state propaganda, and if it's not sending your propaganda detector to 11, you really need to get it tuned a bit - especially in this day and age. More often than not, you're not going to be able to find a link on somebody's CV or Wiki or whatever directly tying them to state interests, but I mean this just isn't how "normal" people think, behave, or write. It's like he's desperately trying to convince you of a position, by making you believe that thinking otherwise would be absurd. Note the stark similarities in style and rhetoric to something like this [3] piece from the NYtimes in the leadup to the Iraq War. [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institute_of_Modern_Russia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institute_of_Modern_Russia [2] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_Free_Europe/Radio_Liberty https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_Free_Europe/Radio_Libert... [3] - https://www.nytimes.com/2003/02/06/opinion/irrefutable-and-undeniable.html https://www.nytimes.com/2003/02/06/opinion/irrefutable-and-u...

toss1 3y ago

>>posting banned ideas or government critical stuff in the US doesn't involve being arrested by the police and being held for months or years. I would not be so confident about that, at least until the US and other western countries wise up to the CCP's tactics, which may be starting. E.g., CCP is running overseas "police stations" to intimidate and harrass people oversead, and the US FBI finally just arrested two people doing so in New York City. >>TikTok spied on me. Why? Short answer, is that it, along with every other Chinese company, has no choice other than to bend to the will of the CCP. Plus, they have no ethical boundaries (other than crossing the CCP) in seeking absolute market position, and this journalist had done something to threaten that dominant position. [0] https://www.npr.org/2023/04/17/1170571626/fbi-arrests-2-on-charges-tied-to-chinese-outpost-in-new-york-city https://www.npr.org/2023/04/17/1170571626/fbi-arrests-2-on-c...

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

drevil-v2 3y ago

[flagged]

zht 3y ago
Those are physical acts of violence?
mint2 3y ago
“Protesters” aka Jan 6 rioters and insurrectionists attempting to overthrow democracy by invading the capital.
alpos 3y ago
They may indeed like to disagree, as I'm sure anyone who has broken the law would and is entitled to. Hence the existence of a fair trial and the possibility of a "not guilty" plea along with the opportunity to present a defense before a jury. One could argue about the fairness of any trial or set of trials, of course, and we should definitely do that and work out what we the people think of those trials as well as what we want to see in a fair trial. However, if you are trying to say that what those people did was just a protest or just speech, you will need to address the actual crimes the people going to jail were charged with and convicted of. Otherwise, your argument there is not convincing at all. It's not just free speech when you destroy property, break into government buildings, assault cops and government employees, actually invade and interrupt a session of congress, trespass in government offices, and actually try to locate the vice-president with the loudly declared intent to hang him.

Convolutional 3y ago

> Thankfully, posting banned ideas or government critical stuff in the US doesn't involve being arrested by the police and being held for months or years. Let me think of groups of people in the US and if they have been treated like this - C language programmers...we'll there is Julian Assange. > no issues jailing people for speaking the wrong things, forcing it's citizens into reeducation camps, welding them locked into buildings China has more than four times the US population, yet the US incarcerates more people than China does. In that context it does not sound like much of a knock "China locks up less than a quarter of the people the US does!" Well - yes.

lisper 3y ago
> the US incarcerates more people than China does Yes, but mostly because of race, not politics. (Not that that's any better, but the underlying dynamic really is different.)
- 0000011111 3y ago
  Right the book The New Jim Crow: Mass Incarceration in the Age of Colorblindness is a good primer for this concept. https://www.googleadservices.com/pagead/aclk?sa=L&ai=DChcSEwi4l5yoyd7-AhWG8-MHHQi2C6wYABAAGgJ5bQ&ohost=www.google.com&cid=CAESbeD2ASZz_7bsWiQ_5BFCAZ2wuqI0RRiv3bCQSTH4g8Pmbu2POusB9taySfFPoJNdBeMyBf2MsL7As_mYLopBuljac-mX_2Cei5VdRFe9jTZr_KyaYHn_J8174M28ix2sgqzxMwKX6cDUmiz1RW8&sig=AOD64_1ghZassSX5ETcNLYql03H3H0q7zA&q&adurl&ved=2ahUKEwiB_pGoyd7-AhX0kYkEHbt1AUoQ0Qx6BAgFEAE https://www.googleadservices.com/pagead/aclk?sa=L&ai=DChcSEw... Same with this wiki page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarceration_in_the_United_States#:~:text=According%20to%20the%20U.S.%20Bureau,18%25%20of%20the%20female%20population https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarceration_in_the_United_St....
  - ipaddr 3y ago
    Where is the harvesting of organs chapter?
    - gmerc 3y ago

hn_throawlles 3y ago

> Thankfully, posting banned ideas or government critical stuff in the US doesn't involve being arrested by the police and being held for months or years. regretfully, being poor and in certain parts of the USA is sufficient to get sucked up by the system. no ideology necessary, just getting caught and loaning money for bail is enough to get swallowed by this beast. i suppose the CCP pays for these systems directly? whereas the American way has a distributed system of crony 'entrepreneurs' (shoddy lawyers, loan sharks, court bureaucrats and so on) all keeping this system of private jails and other 'services' and industries built around people 'breaking the law'

pessimizer 3y ago

Black activists accused of sowing discord https://amsterdamnews.com/news/2023/05/04/black-activists-accused-of-sowing-discord/ https://amsterdamnews.com/news/2023/05/04/black-activists-ac... > Just because you advocate programs that are not aligned with or approved by the U.S. government, siding with anti-racist, anti-colonial forces should not make you a target of U.S. cointelpro actions, raids on the homes of citizens, and humiliating arrests.

leereeves 3y ago
> indicted on April 18 for allegedly working on behalf of the Russian government and Russian Federal Security Service (FSB) to conduct a “malign influence campaign” designed to “sow discord” and “advance Russian propaganda.”
lo_zamoyski 3y ago
Interesting slant, given developments like this[0]. [0] https://catholicherald.co.uk/fbi-spied-on-american-catholics-amid-suspicion-of-links-to-right-wing-groups-documents-reveal/ https://catholicherald.co.uk/fbi-spied-on-american-catholics...
throwaway290 3y ago
Your example is about what exactly? Yes Russia intervenes and China does too, you expect it to not be acted upon? By the way in China as of this month saying something that is against national interest is punishable under espionage law. If they want they can jail you for using VPN to access something outside of great firewall.

dpratt 3y ago

I have very little to fear, on a personal level, from the CCP. They may or may not be collecting data on me, and I find that distasteful and somewhat scary, but they are not a direct threat to my personal liberty, safety or civil rights. The NSA, CIA and the US intelligence-industrial complex, however, is a direct and credible threat to me. Perhaps not today, and hopefully not tomorrow, but as history has shown us, governments change, sometimes wildly so, in a short period of time while still holding the trappings and lip-service of their predecessors. If you dismiss the concerns about warrantless data collection, tracking, active suppression of free discourse and political targeting of people who ideologically threaten those in power (no matter the political background), well, you just haven't been paying attention.

ipaddr 3y ago
If you run a business, visit or know someone from China you will be targeted. If you try to publish an article against China and have a high profile your secrets will come out. But if you are nobody why worry about the NSA, FBI, etc they have better people to target
imiric 3y ago
You don't have to be a citizen of the nation that does the spying for the data they collect on you to be harmful. Following your logic, nobody outside of the US or China has reasons to be concerned, which is not the case. Governments—particularly those of the world's greatest superpowers—have influence outside of their borders, and can make your life hell, no matter where you currently live. They can restrict your freedom to travel, censor your public speech, and target you electronically in many ways. This can happen if you fall on their radar for whatever reason, including by mistake. Good luck getting off that list, and getting your life back after that. If I'm rating which government I'm more afraid of, it would be the one that has a totalitarian control over its citizens, and no regard for human life. Otherwise, they're all equally harmful to my wellbeing.

d0mine 3y ago

People were cancelled for much less in US

thiagoharry 3y ago

The Black Panthers and victims of Mcarthism wiuld disagree. The current whistleblowers like Snowden also would disagree.

jacooper 3y ago
And assange.
BeFlatXIII 3y ago
For these exact reasons, I'm more comfortable with Xi Jinping's cronies spying on my every movement than my own government. The Chinese only do that stuff to their own citizens and I'm a zero-value target to them. US authorities may feel like being petty one day.
- kelipso 3y ago
  Seriously. What happened to that whole philosophy that the founding fathers had about being wary of our own government and the tendency of governments to overreach to control its citizenry. That entire sentiment seem to have disappeared especially in the last few years in favor of China-Russia-terrorism-whatever new bs hysteria.
  - thfuran 3y ago
    The red scare wasn't in the last few years.
- bluefirebrand 3y ago
  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detention_of_Michael_Spavor_and_Michael_Kovrig#:~:text=The%20detention%20of%20Michael%20Kovrig,by%20her%20father%20Ren%20Zhengfei https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detention_of_Michael_Spavor_.... China absolutely does not limit their abductions to their own citizens. If you're in China, you're fair game.
  - BeFlatXIII 3y ago

anigbrowl 3y ago

While I don't think the US is on the same scale as the CCP, I also think you're being a little naive. Expressing the wrong ideas or misjudging the time/place to do so can absolutely land you behind bars.

lenkite 3y ago

> Thankfully, posting banned ideas or government critical stuff in the US doesn't involve being arrested by the police and being held for months or years. Which parallel world are you living in ? I would like to migrate there to this utopian USA.