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audited for what? what is this signal fanboyism online when there are competing products doing the same thing? if whatsapp is using signal protocol then by effe

audited for what? what is this signal fanboyism online when there are competing products doing the same thing? if whatsapp is using signal protocol then by effect isn't it as secure as signal? if whatsapp is introducing attack vectors, then they are not as secure as signal. But all that is a moot point. Indian government wants a representative in india for all the apps which they can throw in the jail or fine or arrest or beat up if their app is used to disseminate information the ruling party finds unpalatable. There is no terrorism threat. If whatsapp is e2ee, why aren't criminals using it? one would argue that it is being monitored and anyone doing any terrorist activity gets auto reported so where is e2ee in this? what happened to that? the government wants element/threema/telegram/whatsapp/signal to have a rep who will give them backdoor access and dance to their tune or they will cut off their money supply viz a viz, ban from the huge indian market. Telegram and whatsapp have bowed down to the supreme clown so they are after the rest of the apps now. reproducibility is nothing if the government can't push down on someone's neck. They want a totalitarian state where any dissent is seen as a criminal offense and people are today in jails for doing that. public channels is nonsense argument. the boogeyman terrorists wont use public channels will they? second thing, there is no requirement of using a mobile number with matrix. That is an amazing tool with the indian government. They just need the account holders' mobile which whatsapp and telegram are happy to share to save their asses and it takes a matter of seconds to find the person. They then employ the "xkcd $5 wrench attack" and the game is over. These apps don't mandate the use of a mobile number so that is what they are after.

jraph 3y ago
> audited for what? To find backdoors? > what is this signal fanboyism online when there are competing products doing the same thing? You are completely misreading me. I actually prefer Element/Matrix than Signal (and I use both). But that does not matter one bit, so I hadn't mentioned it so far. I'm a fanboy of nothing, that's not how I work. Take it easy. > if whatsapp is using signal protocol then by effect isn't it as secure as signal? WhatsApp is closed source. We only have Facebook's words for trusting it. Which is a bit weak if ask me.
- 2Gkashmiri 3y ago
  i am currently being blocked from accessing element.io because this ban is directly affecting me. That is why i am able to speak on it. my matrix access has not stopped but i guess it probably will in the next few days. There are thousands of matrix servers so being connected isn't an issue. The issue is specifically making the government understand that e2ee is necessary for the very reason they do not want it in the first place. terrorism is never an issue. the target, like china is on dissent and these are just propaganda
  - jraph 3y ago
    Good luck with the censoring happening in your country! That's quite shitty.
    - celdon25 3y ago
      Hopefully their search results also aren’t manipulated like in the US. At least they have a shot if they are allowed to even know the app exists :)
  - the_gipsy 3y ago
    You can use any other client, right?
    - 2Gkashmiri 3y ago
      Yep. For now the element.io keeps coming up and getting blocked on a 10-20 minutes schedule for some reason. No stoppage of service is happening for now. Even matrix.org is working. All clients are working, all servers are working
  - eklavya 3y ago
    I would like to understand how blocking element suppresses dissent in India. Every month there is somebody protesting in Delhi with media coverage. I would agree with you if the terrorism problem was more like that in the west. But people are killed by terrorists almost every week in India.
0max 3y ago
Now you're really making me consider the downsides of the India stack.
1024core 3y ago
> the government wants element/threema/telegram/whatsapp/signal to have a rep who will give them backdoor access and dance to their tune EVERY government does this (well OK, except for the really small ones). Why do you think the US wants to ban TikTok? Why do you think Al-Jazeera America exists? And let's not even talk about regimes like Russia and China. > if whatsapp is using signal protocol then by effect isn't it as secure as signal? You are incredibly naive.
- 2Gkashmiri 3y ago
  What are you on about? Tiktok is about information control. Tiktok which is a China based org is gaining ground in USA is threatening american control over the narrative. Remember how everyone voted to boot parler suddenly? Doesn't China do same for american companies? The point here is about e2ee and backdoors. Nothing else. Your points about al Jazeera america are why? Tiktok? Does matrix work in China and russia? Do they comply there? Does american govt access other nations data with american companies which forced gdpr rules among others? Aren't signal fanboys claiming "no data to share" so why isn't that app used by terrorists in america? Why isn't that blocked there
  - 1024core 3y ago
    > What are you on about? Sigh. Did you know TikTok was forced to form a company in America so it could comply with American rules? And BTW: the reason America does not care as much about these apps is because they have deeper hooks into phones and can get the data without worrying about encryption. They get their hands on the messages before they're even encrypted. I know, magic, right?
  - tortoise_in 3y ago
    [flagged]

jraph 3y ago

> audited for what? To find backdoors? > what is this signal fanboyism online when there are competing products doing the same thing? You are completely misreading me. I actually prefer Element/Matrix than Signal (and I use both). But that does not matter one bit, so I hadn't mentioned it so far. I'm a fanboy of nothing, that's not how I work. Take it easy. > if whatsapp is using signal protocol then by effect isn't it as secure as signal? WhatsApp is closed source. We only have Facebook's words for trusting it. Which is a bit weak if ask me.

2Gkashmiri 3y ago
i am currently being blocked from accessing element.io because this ban is directly affecting me. That is why i am able to speak on it. my matrix access has not stopped but i guess it probably will in the next few days. There are thousands of matrix servers so being connected isn't an issue. The issue is specifically making the government understand that e2ee is necessary for the very reason they do not want it in the first place. terrorism is never an issue. the target, like china is on dissent and these are just propaganda
- jraph 3y ago
  Good luck with the censoring happening in your country! That's quite shitty.
  - celdon25 3y ago
    Hopefully their search results also aren’t manipulated like in the US. At least they have a shot if they are allowed to even know the app exists :)
- the_gipsy 3y ago
  You can use any other client, right?
  - 2Gkashmiri 3y ago
    Yep. For now the element.io keeps coming up and getting blocked on a 10-20 minutes schedule for some reason. No stoppage of service is happening for now. Even matrix.org is working. All clients are working, all servers are working
- eklavya 3y ago
  I would like to understand how blocking element suppresses dissent in India. Every month there is somebody protesting in Delhi with media coverage. I would agree with you if the terrorism problem was more like that in the west. But people are killed by terrorists almost every week in India.

0max 3y ago

Now you're really making me consider the downsides of the India stack.

1024core 3y ago

> the government wants element/threema/telegram/whatsapp/signal to have a rep who will give them backdoor access and dance to their tune EVERY government does this (well OK, except for the really small ones). Why do you think the US wants to ban TikTok? Why do you think Al-Jazeera America exists? And let's not even talk about regimes like Russia and China. > if whatsapp is using signal protocol then by effect isn't it as secure as signal? You are incredibly naive.

2Gkashmiri 3y ago
What are you on about? Tiktok is about information control. Tiktok which is a China based org is gaining ground in USA is threatening american control over the narrative. Remember how everyone voted to boot parler suddenly? Doesn't China do same for american companies? The point here is about e2ee and backdoors. Nothing else. Your points about al Jazeera america are why? Tiktok? Does matrix work in China and russia? Do they comply there? Does american govt access other nations data with american companies which forced gdpr rules among others? Aren't signal fanboys claiming "no data to share" so why isn't that app used by terrorists in america? Why isn't that blocked there
- 1024core 3y ago
  > What are you on about? Sigh. Did you know TikTok was forced to form a company in America so it could comply with American rules? And BTW: the reason America does not care as much about these apps is because they have deeper hooks into phones and can get the data without worrying about encryption. They get their hands on the messages before they're even encrypted. I know, magic, right?
- tortoise_in 3y ago
  [flagged]