4 ms·

Isn't this all the same thing as what airlines did after 9/11? You pay the fare and get a seat. Want it to not be a middle seat? That's $50. Want to carry o

Isn't this all the same thing as what airlines did after 9/11? You pay the fare and get a seat. Want it to not be a middle seat? That's $50. Want to carry on a bag? That's $50. Want to check a bag? That's $50. Want to check out the lounge before you depart? That's $50. Want some WiFi? That's $50. Want a snack? That's $50. Now your flight is $200 more than the quoted fare. (OK OK you can probably get WiFi and a snack for less than $50.) Everyone seems to love this, or at least, they didn't stop flying. So why would any rational company not try to use this business model? Your AAA game gets to be $59.99 + $0.99 download, and your competitor's game is $60.00. Sort by price ascending makes you the top result, but you actually get $0.99 more money with each copy sold. You are right that legislation is the only answer to curb this abuse. Consumers fall for it hook/line/sinker. Companies can't resist free money.

electriclove 4y ago
People don’t love that about the airlines. People hate it.
- gffrd 4y ago
  … but they like saving money more than they hate it.
lp0_on_fire 4y ago
I don’t think that people -_love it_ or _fall for it_ per se. rather, people don’t have much of a choice but to accept it unless they can afford to fly private. You can’t really fly and not take luggage with you, for example.
crooked-v 4y ago
> Now your flight is $200 more than the quoted fare. > Everyone seems to love this, or at least, they didn't stop flying. Nobody "loves" it. They just have to put up with it because even for people who know what they're doing with flight searches, the only way to dig into all that dark pattern shit is to have fifty browser tabs open comparing the fine details of different flights. If it was possible to, say, compare all those up-charges up front using flight search tools, I'm sure you'd see a lot more people choosing the slightly more expensive tickets.
- Plasmoid 4y ago
  Google flights will let you input the number of bags you are checking/carrying on to produce a "final" price.
  - crooked-v 4y ago
    That still leaves out leg room, meal service, lounge access, and all the other things that somebody might want.
- ido 4y ago
  I mean, you do get to know airlines by reputation - generally speaking I expect Ryanair to do all the bullshit dark pattern nickel and diming and not expect it from national airlines like Lufthansa.
  - Kirby64 4y ago
    I think overall you overestimate the amount most people fly. Generally, many people fly very little or almost never. Sure, there's world travelers that know who are bad airlines, but knowing the 'secrets' to not having a bad flight is assuming a lot of the average occasional flight consumer.
    - dsr_ 4y ago
      And the people who fly a lot? Almost all of them are flying on business, on somebody else's money. Which is also why the hotel where people stay when they're visiting friends has free wifi, and the hotel next to the convention center does not.
alexb_ 4y ago
...Are you of the impression that people like this? People hate it. It's like, the one thing everyone complains about all the time when flying. How did you get to the conclusion that people like this about flights
- jrockway 4y ago
  Actions speak louder than words. People say they hate it. But they aren't upgrading to all-inclusive first class or full-fare economy tickets. They happily buy the cheapest flight, whine, and then do it all against the next time they take a vacation. To some extent, this is quite rational. You're in pain for like 2 hours because the seat pitch is now 4 inches. But then you get off the flight and never think about it again. The fact that flights include things that people don't need to have just made air travel more accessible, though less fun.
  - Entinel 4y ago
    Have you considered that most people can't afford to upgrade to first class? The choice is either deal with the shit seat or not go on vacation.
    - jrockway 4y ago
      Of course. It being cheaper is why people like it. Same reason that games are free and offer DLC, or Mercedes offers a car that could go faster if you have extra money laying around this month. I hate the nickel and diming but it does make things more accessible in general.
      - bick_nyers 4y ago
        It would maybe make things more accessible if there were caps on corporate profits. As it stands, corporations have 0 obligation to pass those savings on to consumers.
      - SketchySeaBeast 4y ago
        A $60/month difference is not what's going to make or break someone buying a Mercedes. Flying economy is cheap enough that many people can do it, there is no right Mercedes subscription model that will get people into one of their cars.
WillPostForFood 4y ago
You are right that legislation is the only answer to curb this abuse. Perhaps! But a big part of the problem is airlines have near monopolies on domestic routes. I want to fly non-stop to Charlotte, my only choice is American, I want to fly to Atlanta, my only choice is Delta, for the same price as a flight to Europe. Some monopoly enforcement, or laws requiring more airport diversity might fix this without micromanaging prices or services.
mikestew 4y ago
Everyone seems to love this, or at least, they didn't stop flying. “Complains about air pollution, but still breathes the air”, amirite? Or perhaps there’s another explanation for the dynamic. Because I can tell you that my game-buying habits have changed as a result of your parallel example.
pmontra 4y ago
People pay the fare and usually don't buy any extra. And the plane doesn't go any faster if all passengers paid an hypothetical Speed Improvement.
smeej 4y ago
There's a big difference between something you rent and something you own. You rent seats on planes. Some seats are more desirable than others, so you pay more to rent those. You rent access to their storage space. You rent access to their services. The seat doesn't come with food, so if you want the food they have on the plane, you buy that from them. If you don't, someone on the next flight will. When you buy a car, ostensibly you own the car. It's your property. A company should not be able to disable features unless you pay them not to, indefinitely, on something you own.
dreamcompiler 4y ago
The key here is that because the US government's antitrust division has been sitting on its hands for 40 years, there are now only 4 airlines in the US. This lack of competition means that all 4 can play this game (except Southwest, which has other problems) because there's not enough competition to stop it. But there are more than 4 car companies. There's enough competition to stop this kind of horseshit, which is a fact Mary Barra seems not to recognize.

electriclove 4y ago

People don’t love that about the airlines. People hate it.

gffrd 4y ago
… but they like saving money more than they hate it.

lp0_on_fire 4y ago

I don’t think that people -_love it_ or _fall for it_ per se. rather, people don’t have much of a choice but to accept it unless they can afford to fly private. You can’t really fly and not take luggage with you, for example.

crooked-v 4y ago

> Now your flight is $200 more than the quoted fare. > Everyone seems to love this, or at least, they didn't stop flying. Nobody "loves" it. They just have to put up with it because even for people who know what they're doing with flight searches, the only way to dig into all that dark pattern shit is to have fifty browser tabs open comparing the fine details of different flights. If it was possible to, say, compare all those up-charges up front using flight search tools, I'm sure you'd see a lot more people choosing the slightly more expensive tickets.

Plasmoid 4y ago
Google flights will let you input the number of bags you are checking/carrying on to produce a "final" price.
- crooked-v 4y ago
  That still leaves out leg room, meal service, lounge access, and all the other things that somebody might want.
ido 4y ago
I mean, you do get to know airlines by reputation - generally speaking I expect Ryanair to do all the bullshit dark pattern nickel and diming and not expect it from national airlines like Lufthansa.
- Kirby64 4y ago
  I think overall you overestimate the amount most people fly. Generally, many people fly very little or almost never. Sure, there's world travelers that know who are bad airlines, but knowing the 'secrets' to not having a bad flight is assuming a lot of the average occasional flight consumer.
  - dsr_ 4y ago
    And the people who fly a lot? Almost all of them are flying on business, on somebody else's money. Which is also why the hotel where people stay when they're visiting friends has free wifi, and the hotel next to the convention center does not.

alexb_ 4y ago

...Are you of the impression that people like this? People hate it. It's like, the one thing everyone complains about all the time when flying. How did you get to the conclusion that people like this about flights

jrockway 4y ago
Actions speak louder than words. People say they hate it. But they aren't upgrading to all-inclusive first class or full-fare economy tickets. They happily buy the cheapest flight, whine, and then do it all against the next time they take a vacation. To some extent, this is quite rational. You're in pain for like 2 hours because the seat pitch is now 4 inches. But then you get off the flight and never think about it again. The fact that flights include things that people don't need to have just made air travel more accessible, though less fun.
- Entinel 4y ago
  Have you considered that most people can't afford to upgrade to first class? The choice is either deal with the shit seat or not go on vacation.
  - jrockway 4y ago
    Of course. It being cheaper is why people like it. Same reason that games are free and offer DLC, or Mercedes offers a car that could go faster if you have extra money laying around this month. I hate the nickel and diming but it does make things more accessible in general.
    - bick_nyers 4y ago
      It would maybe make things more accessible if there were caps on corporate profits. As it stands, corporations have 0 obligation to pass those savings on to consumers.
    - SketchySeaBeast 4y ago
      A $60/month difference is not what's going to make or break someone buying a Mercedes. Flying economy is cheap enough that many people can do it, there is no right Mercedes subscription model that will get people into one of their cars.

WillPostForFood 4y ago

You are right that legislation is the only answer to curb this abuse. Perhaps! But a big part of the problem is airlines have near monopolies on domestic routes. I want to fly non-stop to Charlotte, my only choice is American, I want to fly to Atlanta, my only choice is Delta, for the same price as a flight to Europe. Some monopoly enforcement, or laws requiring more airport diversity might fix this without micromanaging prices or services.

mikestew 4y ago

Everyone seems to love this, or at least, they didn't stop flying. “Complains about air pollution, but still breathes the air”, amirite? Or perhaps there’s another explanation for the dynamic. Because I can tell you that my game-buying habits have changed as a result of your parallel example.

pmontra 4y ago

People pay the fare and usually don't buy any extra. And the plane doesn't go any faster if all passengers paid an hypothetical Speed Improvement.

smeej 4y ago

There's a big difference between something you rent and something you own. You rent seats on planes. Some seats are more desirable than others, so you pay more to rent those. You rent access to their storage space. You rent access to their services. The seat doesn't come with food, so if you want the food they have on the plane, you buy that from them. If you don't, someone on the next flight will. When you buy a car, ostensibly you own the car. It's your property. A company should not be able to disable features unless you pay them not to, indefinitely, on something you own.

dreamcompiler 4y ago

The key here is that because the US government's antitrust division has been sitting on its hands for 40 years, there are now only 4 airlines in the US. This lack of competition means that all 4 can play this game (except Southwest, which has other problems) because there's not enough competition to stop it. But there are more than 4 car companies. There's enough competition to stop this kind of horseshit, which is a fact Mary Barra seems not to recognize.