24 ms·

The part of the post that resonates for me is that working with the open source community may allow a model to improve faster. And, whichever model improves fas

by tikkun 3y ago

The part of the post that resonates for me is that working with the open source community may allow a model to improve faster. And, whichever model improves faster, will win - if it can continue that pace of improvement. The author talks about Koala but notes that ChatGPT is better. GPT-4 is then significantly better than GPT-3.5. If you've used all the models and can afford to spend money, you'd be insane to not use GPT-4 over all the other models. Midjourney is more popular (from what I'm seeing) than Stable Diffusion at the moment because it's better at the moment. Midjourney is closed-source. The point I'm wanting to make is that users will go to whoever has the best model. So, the winning strategy is whatever strategy allows your model to compound in quality faster and to continue to compound that growth in quality for longer. Open source doesn't always win in producing better quality products. Linux won in servers and supercomputing, but not in end user computing. Open-source databases mostly won. Chromium sorta won, but really Chrome. Then in most other areas, closed-source has won. So one takeaway might be that open-source will win in areas where the users are often software developers that can make improvements to the product they're using, and closed-source will win in other areas.

wahnfrieden 3y ago
GPT4 sucks for many use cases because it's SLOW. It will co-exist with ChatGPT variants.
- jquery 3y ago
  It's about using the right tool for the right job. GPT-4 is an incredibly versatile generalist tool and a fantastic jack of all trades. However, this comes with some drawbacks. While saying it 'sucks' might be an exaggeration, I generally concur with the point you're making.
  - wahnfrieden 3y ago
    It's no exaggeration that it sucks for certain use cases where you would expect and can achieve near-realtime response, and that's fine because it's not built for that use case. I'm responding to someone saying it's always best if you can afford it
- happycube 3y ago
  And far more expensive than ChatGPT via API, so it makes sense to use ChatGPT3.5, or the locally run equivalents once they get as good, as much as possible.
- chaxor 3y ago
  It's quite fast if you use it at ~4 AM in the US. There's definitely a cycle in time. Putting things in a queue to run while you sleep is a good work around.
- yesimahuman 3y ago
  Yea 3.5 is more than good enough for a whole slew of tasks (especially code), and it's ridiculously fast. I rarely find the need to use 4 but certainly if there was a usecase it was significantly better at that mattered to me, I would.
hospitalJail 3y ago
>Midjourney is more popular (from what I'm seeing) than Stable Diffusion at the moment because it's better at the moment. Midjourney is closed-source. Midjourney is easier, its not better. The low barrier to entry has it popular, but it isnt as realistic, doesnt follow the prompt as well, and has almost no customization. SD is the holy grail of AI art, if you can afford a computer or server to run SD + have the ability to figure out how to install python, clone Automatic1111 from git, and run the installer, its the best. Those 3 steps are too much for most people, so they default to something more like an app. Maybe it is too soon, but it seems SD has already won. MJ is like using MS paint, where SD is like photoshop.
- ketzo 3y ago
  Do you have a link to a decent tutorial for someone to do what you're describing in the last paragraph?
  - hospitalJail 3y ago
    Do you need additional detail that cannot be found here? https://github.com/AUTOMATIC1111/stable-diffusion-webui https://github.com/AUTOMATIC1111/stable-diffusion-webui Or are you looking for the cutting edge stuff like control net? If you want to use colab instead, I used this a month or two ago. https://colab.research.google.com/github/TheLastBen/fast-stable-diffusion/blob/main/fast_stable_diffusion_AUTOMATIC1111.ipynb https://colab.research.google.com/github/TheLastBen/fast-sta... I hope other people can give you further reading.
  - erichocean 3y ago
    There are dozens on YouTube. My kids did it, and they don't even program and had never touched Python in their life. Even trained their own models using a cloud GPU. The SD ecosystem is wild.
  - xhrpost 3y ago
    It took me a little hunting, but thanks to Reddit I eventually found a cloud-gpu host that provides a working Stable Diffusion image. So you basically don't have to do anything that GP said. Everything is installed and you just rent the hardware. https://www.runpod.io/console/templates https://www.runpod.io/console/templates Look for "RunPod Stable Diffusion". I spent a whole $0.35/hr playing around with my own SD instance that I had running in minutes.
toyg 3y ago
> Linux won in servers and supercomputing, but not in end user computing "End user computing" these days means mobile, and mobile is dominated by Linux (in Apple's case BSD, but we're splitting hair) and Chrome/WebKit - which began as KHTML. The only area where opensource failed is the desktop, and that's also because of Microsoft's skill in defending their moats.
- kenjackson 3y ago
  The kernel isn't the OS/environment. Distiling iOS to BSD is just not useful in the context of this discussion.
  - toyg 3y ago
    The kernel is absolutely the OS, the desktop environment is an interface to it.
    - kenjackson 3y ago
      The kernel is part of it. But it's not all of it. Again, especially in the context of this discussion.
    - tremon 3y ago
      Is e.g. libc part of the OS, or the desktop environment?
mirekrusin 3y ago
If you think you can use GPT-4 then you don't know what you're talking about. API access is on waitlist. UI has limit of 25 messages in 3 hours. If you think big, known companies can get ahead of the waitlist and use it - short answer is no, they can't because of their IP. Nobody is going to sign off leaking out all internal knowledge to play with something. ClosedAI seems to have big problem with capacity. Those poems about your colleague's upcoming birthday do burn a lot of GPU cycles.
- Closi 3y ago
  Pretty easy to get API access, I got it within a few days. Aware this is a sample of one, but also can’t believe they fast tracked me.
  - rolisz 3y ago
    It took me several weeks to get access. I just got it today.
    - dwringer 3y ago
      I've been waiting a little over a month with no update so far, but I don't expect any sort of fast track since I'm not currently a paying customer.
      - Closi 3y ago
        Are you using the gpt3 api?
- realusername 3y ago
  That's also why I think OpenAI is in a tough spot in the long run. They just threw as much expensive hardware as they could to build this moat. There's basically two things which can happen from now on: - Some scalability breakthrough will appear, if that's the case their moat disappears pretty much instantly and the cost of LLMs will plunge close to zero being a commodity. That's the future I'm betting on from what's happening now. - No scalability breakthrough will appear and then it means that they will have a hard time to expand further as seen as the gpt4 limited access. Either way, they are in a tough spot.
visarga 3y ago
> users will go to whoever has the best model Depends. You might want privacy, need low price in order to process big volumes, need no commercial restrictions, need a different tuning, or the task is easy enough and can be done by the smaller free model - why not? Why pay money, leak information, and get subjected to their rules? You will only use GPT-4 or 5 for that 10% of tasks that really require it. The future spells bad for OpenAI, there is less profit in the large and seldom used big models. For 90% of the tasks there is a "good enough" level, and we're approaching it, we don't need smarter models except rarely. Another concern for big model developers is data leaks - you can exfiltrate the skills of a large model by batch solving tasks. This works pretty well, you can make smaller models that are just as good as GPT-4 but on a single task. So you can do that if you need to call the API too many times - make your own free and libre model. I think the logical response in this situation would be to start working on AI-anti-malware, like filters for fake news and deceptive sites. It's gonna be a cat and mouse game from now on. Better to accept this situation and move on, we can't stop AI misuse completely, we'll have to manage it, and learn quickly.
nabakin 3y ago
I think the best situation is when a company will perform an expensive but high value task that the open source community can't and then give it back to them for further iterations and development. If the community isn't able to perform a high value task again, a company steps in, does it, and gives it back to the community to restart the process. In this way, everyone's skills are being leveraged to innovate at a rapid pace.
ilyt 3y ago
> The point I'm wanting to make is that users will go to whoever has the best model. So, the winning strategy is whatever strategy allows your model to compound in quality faster and to continue to compound that growth in quality for longer. Best only works till second best is "close enough" and cheaper/free
- bilbo0s 3y ago
  It's likely they will all be free in time. That's kind of the problem underlying the consternation here. It's the internet all over again. How do you win the race to the bottom? Once there How do you compete effectively with free? Microsoft and Amazon will have billions on billions coming in to float their free offerings for what is effectively eternity in business terms. Probably Google and Meta will as well. What happens to everyone else? I think you have to be in some niche market where you can charge. Because for everyone else, free is unsustainable. Porn maybe? But there will be way too many competitors there. So something more like medical. Or semiconductors. Or construction or something.
  - ilyt 3y ago
    > It's likely they will all be free in time. That's kind of the problem underlying the consternation here. That what I was getting to. Paid only makes sense if you're willing to provide stuff that OSS lacks, which is either "super specialized things not many people want to OSS" or, well good looking UI... (there seem to be massive lack of any UI/UX people vs developers in near anything OSS). AI is neither so it will be commoditized and mostly run in few OSS projects, and probably for the best, the only thing worse than anyone having access to "near free copywriter bot that will write about anything you tell it to" is only people with money having access and control over it.
LordDragonfang 3y ago
Midjourney is more popular because it takes zero technical know-how compared to SD (even with A1111 it took me nearly an hour to walk my competent-but-layman brother through installing it) and doesn't require a high-end gaming PC to run it. (DALL-E lost because they let MJ eat their lunch)
- dragonwriter 3y ago
  > Midjourney is more popular because it takes zero technical know-how compared to SD Both take zero technical knowledge to use the base models via first-party online hosts, but Midjourney is superior there. SD offers a lot more capacity beyond what is available from the first-party online host, though, while with Midjourney, that’s where it begins and ends, there is nothing more. > and doesn’t require a high-end gaming PC to run it. Neither does SD (I use a couple-year-old business laptop with a 4GB Nvidia card; no sane person would call it a “highend gaming PC” to run A1111 locally, and there are options besides running it locally.)
- cubefox 3y ago
  > DALL-E lost because they let MJ eat their lunch I wonder why nobody is talking about Bing Image Creator https://www.bing.com/images/create https://www.bing.com/images/create which uses some much more advanced version of Dall-E 2 in the background (so Dall-E 2.5? 3?), while being completely free to use. It can produce some pretty mind blowing results with quite simple prompts, although apparently not as impressive as Midjourney V5. A few examples: hyperrealistic https://www.bing.com/images/create/hyperrealistic/644fa0c48f8d4f04b33ca7c3552fc386?id=UOySTqHpq1q018d6HF%2byhg%3d%3d&view=detailv2&idpp=genimg https://www.bing.com/images/create/hyperrealistic/644fa0c48f... an allegory for femininity https://www.bing.com/images/create/an-allegory-for-femininity/64519153f532435e9053d5e4e205af1c?id=VLiGLPbicVhfS8w9Z9mKjg%3d%3d&view=detailv2&idpp=genimg https://www.bing.com/images/create/an-allegory-for-femininit... portrait of a strange woman, hyperrealistic https://www.bing.com/images/create/portrait-of-a-strange-woman2c-hyperrealistic/644fe78d039348c695df418488748a87?id=nbnDmSSnJBmT997fzymUQw%3d%3d&view=detailv2&idpp=genimg https://www.bing.com/images/create/portrait-of-a-strange-wom... allegory of logic, portrait https://www.bing.com/images/create/allegory-of-logic2c-portrait/644725e29fc54856a7a6671389994d9c?id=%2b32HaPz%2fbHN0ZnwhHeX5qA%3d%3d&view=detailv2&idpp=genimg https://www.bing.com/images/create/allegory-of-logic2c-portr... her strange bedfellow https://www.bing.com/images/create/her-strange-bedfellow/6447109c23e14ab9a737374e3a8e01bf?id=rwYVs44xqL5jy2nMkXrsXw%3d%3d&view=detailv2&idpp=genimg https://www.bing.com/images/create/her-strange-bedfellow/644... Mrs fox https://www.bing.com/images/create/mrs-fox/6446e85a32134e649ab48967867a84b4?id=yKgIp7c6PVT2Hv8icrenRQ%3d%3d&view=detailv2&idpp=genimg https://www.bing.com/images/create/mrs-fox/6446e85a32134e649... inside view https://www.bing.com/images/create/inside-view/6446f1dc573f463e9a9fa924a71da6c3?id=xqEfDLAg7Q5lZpDiqxOhpw%3d%3d&view=detailv2&idpp=genimg https://www.bing.com/images/create/inside-view/6446f1dc573f4... in the midst of it all https://www.bing.com/images/create/in-the-midst-of-it-all/6446f8499c7b412ca19ae83d4d61ff79?id=zKszK%2fOAA5ACbFQ%2blJ61Rg%3d%3d&view=detailv2&idpp=genimg https://www.bing.com/images/create/in-the-midst-of-it-all/64... strange gal https://www.bing.com/images/create/strange-gal/6446e2a2ea7a413b9a52e9093e5aae80?id=GsbjXXkwYDkBrL1gA2HT%2bg%3d%3d&view=detailv2&idpp=genimg https://www.bing.com/images/create/strange-gal/6446e2a2ea7a4... sighting of a strange entity in an abandoned library https://www.bing.com/images/create/sighting-of-a-strange-entity-in-an-abandoned-libra/64451d025579482bbf024ef8724b6d1d?id=baZsjFMi%2bc7TWb4bmyfW4A%3d%3d&view=detailv2&idpp=genimg https://www.bing.com/images/create/sighting-of-a-strange-ent... sleeping marble woman next to a wall of strange pictures inside an abandoned museum, close-up https://www.bing.com/images/create/sleeping-marble-woman-next-to-a-wall-of-strange-pi/6444b8be3bf74947b41032e2d8b49e20?id=yBX3nlC08MJGXtvrw563dA%3d%3d&view=detailv2&idpp=genimg https://www.bing.com/images/create/sleeping-marble-woman-nex... sculpture of a woman posing next to a wall of strange pictures, close-up https://www.bing.com/images/create/sculpture-of-a-woman-posing-next-to-a-wall-of-stra/6444a97707b34371a98a0d18aadce8e8?id=D7Xpp9gK8VnWzlRFiAbSqg%3d%3d&view=detailv2&idpp=genimg https://www.bing.com/images/create/sculpture-of-a-woman-posi... Easter https://www.bing.com/images/create/easter/643ae4968aff432684b02d4bbe7c73b6?id=qSfaYs7b91zVdSdCum2ppQ%3d%3d&view=detailv2&idpp=genimg https://www.bing.com/images/create/easter/643ae4968aff432684... Christmas on board a spaceship, DSLR photograph https://www.bing.com/images/create/christmas-on-board-a-spaceship2c-dslr-photograph/643b11f856344beda54cf8d145625a36?id=2QI%2f5m5raxPlSmsxYWME%2bQ%3d%3d&view=detailv2&idpp=genimg https://www.bing.com/images/create/christmas-on-board-a-spac... an angel, dancing to heavy metal https://www.bing.com/images/create/an-angel2c-dancing-to-heavy-metal/643b2a5144d9457ba3e63a75192e9815?id=%2b3J%2bFp3UaESTjaqJVRWlkw%3d%3d&view=detailv2&idpp=genimg https://www.bing.com/images/create/an-angel2c-dancing-to-hea... Saturday afternoon in the streets of a buzzing cyberpunk city, photo-realistic, DSLR https://www.bing.com/images/create/saturday-afternoon-in-the-streets-of-a-buzzing-cyb/641cb3be6f604143b7ebe6eeabe5e954?id=JDvm4GA9aLZ%2bT05rMqL4mA%3d%3d&view=detailv2&idpp=genimg https://www.bing.com/images/create/saturday-afternoon-in-the... The Dogfather https://www.bing.com/images/create/the-dogfather/6441d18950ba4e2eab5e7c6773fd94c0?id=QR%2fSef49ci15P32eAW43Hg%3d%3d&view=detailv2&idpp=genimg https://www.bing.com/images/create/the-dogfather/6441d18950b... the unlikely guest https://www.bing.com/images/create/the-unlikely-guest/644446fcc1ba4478bd226ed1e0128b18?id=UWclQl%2fM2%2bYxjW9f0VW0vg%3d%3d&view=detailv2&idpp=genimg https://www.bing.com/images/create/the-unlikely-guest/644446... Strange pictures in an abandoned museum https://www.bing.com/images/create/strange-pictures-in-an-abandoned-museum/6444559ec0394d7382b288d0676c39c1?id=i%2bf9ulLO%2b3yMNGR61EV%2fqw%3d%3d&view=detailv2&idpp=genimg https://www.bing.com/images/create/strange-pictures-in-an-ab... strange woman in an abandoned museum, close-up https://www.bing.com/images/create/strange-woman-in-an-abandoned-museum2c-close-up/64447d1bc0ce4ad69beb19d92c42b828?id=1n9AjVx9Ob%2bj6d4mh04KOg%3d%3d&view=detailv2&idpp=genimg https://www.bing.com/images/create/strange-woman-in-an-aband... strange woman in an abandoned museum, strange pictures in the background https://www.bing.com/images/create/strange-woman-in-an-abandoned-museum2c-strange-pict/64447eed701f4ee8ac580c0e25c52ce9?id=E%2fJ%2fPsbeGoOWhZrPmnrQKQ%3d%3d&view=detailv2&idpp=genimg https://www.bing.com/images/create/strange-woman-in-an-aband... a wall of strange pictures in an abandoned museum in Atlantis, close-up https://www.bing.com/images/create/a-wall-of-strange-pictures-in-an-abandoned-museum-/6444821e41b446aaac45b3c5e62a9a3e?id=N619lGeImVO%2bAkvss3mxdg%3d%3d&view=detailv2&idpp=genimg https://www.bing.com/images/create/a-wall-of-strange-picture... female sculpture in an abandoned museum in Atlantis, close-up https://www.bing.com/images/create/female-sculpture-in-an-abandoned-museum-in-atlanti/644489b3b03b4d5bb42c6f96bd0f6e33?id=WHbqlG%2fXxn1%2bUyMcTmIzmQ%3d%3d&view=detailv2&idpp=genimg https://www.bing.com/images/create/female-sculpture-in-an-ab... the unlikely guest https://www.bing.com/images/create/the-unlikely-guest/6444908ea6264cbd987a75c16cbdbb8d?id=VbWd9SE%2f1agad%2bnjDobHsw%3d%3d&view=detailv2&idpp=genimg https://www.bing.com/images/create/the-unlikely-guest/644490... an unlikely guest of the secret society in the lost city in a country without name, close-up https://www.bing.com/images/create/an-unlikely-guest-of-the-secret-society-in-the-los/6444927c654f4a9289fdb744eb67a392?id=3aAG9FoYdJNY5lj4CWlb%2bg%3d%3d&view=detailv2&idpp=genimg https://www.bing.com/images/create/an-unlikely-guest-of-the-... I think the quality of most of these pictures is far beyond what is achievable with Dall-E 2. One issue that still exists (though to a lesser extent) is the fact that faces have to cover a fairly large area of the image. Smaller faces look strange, e.g. here: photograph of the unlikely guests https://www.bing.com/images/create/photograph-of-the-unlikely-guests/64448f8abc834a28945e32118955d207?id=xSsSPWDVR47REfDaDw4RKw%3d%3d&view=detailv2&idpp=genimg https://www.bing.com/images/create/photograph-of-the-unlikel... It is as if the model creates a good draft in low resolution, and another model scales it up, but the latter model doesn't know what a face is? (I have no idea how diffusion models actually work.)
seydor 3y ago
None of the models will "win" because it is just a foundation. Google won because they leveeraged the linux ecosystem to build a monetizable business with a moat on top of it. The real moat will be some specific application on top of LLMs
MetaWhirledPeas 3y ago
> Linux won in servers and supercomputing, but not in end user computing. Pardon the side discussion, but I think this is because of a few things. 1. OS-exclusive "killer apps" (Office, anything that integrates with an iPhone) 2. Games The killer apps have better alternatives now, and games are starting to work better on Linux. Microsoft's business model no longer requires everyone to use Windows. (Mac is another story.) So I think that, at least for non-Macolytes, Linux end user dominance is certainly on the horizon.
- flerchin 3y ago
  This year is the year of the Linux Desktop! I kid. I've been primarily a Linux Desktop user for 20 years.
- importantbrian 3y ago
  Linux did kind of win for end user computing. Android is based on a modified linux kernel.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
tontomath 3y ago
I think that pouring a lot of money in open source, by bounties or crowdfunding can accelerate open source alternatives to closed LLMs. Perhaps a middle way in which software will be declared open source six month from now can give enough compensation to those institutions contributing big money for developing LLM technology. That is a crowdfunding in which the great contributors have a limited time to be compensated, but capping the total prize just like that of chatgpt 3.5 or 4 depending of the model.
randomdata 3y ago
> Linux won in servers and supercomputing, but not in end user computing. It seems just about every computing appliance in my home runs Linux. Then you have Android, ChromeOS, etc. which are also quite popular with end users, the first one especially. It may not have won, but I think it is safe to say that it is dominating.
- jononor 3y ago
  Appliances are not end user computing, but embedded computing - the OS is incidental and under full control of the manufacturer. Some might argue that even mobile phones are not sufficiently under the control of end users to qualify.
  - randomdata 3y ago
    > Appliances are not end user computing They are when the end user is using them. Think things like TVs or even thermostats. > the OS is incidental and under full control of the manufacturer. For all intents and purposes Linux has won where those conditions aren’t met.
reissbaker 3y ago
GPT-4 is so much better for complex tasks that I wouldn't use anything else. Trying to get 3.5 to do anything complicated is like pulling teeth, and using something worse than 3.5... Oof. TBH this feels like cope from Google; Bard is embarrassingly bad and they expected to be able to compete with OpenAI. In my experience, despite their graph in the article that puts them ahead of Vicuna-13B, they're actually behind... And you can't even use Bard as a developer, there's no API! But GPT-4 is so, so much better. It's not clear to me that individual people doing LoRa at home is going to meaningfully close the gap in terms of generalized capability — at least, not faster than OpenAI itself improves its models. Similarly, StableDiffusion's image quality progress has in my experience stalled out, whereas Midjourney continues to dramatically improve every couple months, and easily beats SD. Open source isn't a magic bullet for quality. Edit: re: the complaints about Midjourney's UI being Discord — sure, that definitely constrains what you can do with it, but OpenAI's interface isn't Discord, it has an API. And you can fine-tune the GPT-3 models programmatically too, and although they haven't opened that up to GPT-4 yet, IME you can't fine-tune your way to GPT-4 quality anyway with anything. "There's no moat" and "OpenAI is irrelevant" feel like the cries of the company that's losing to OpenAI and wants to save face on the way out. Getting repeated generational improvements without the dataset size and compute scale of a dedicated, well-capitalized company is going to be very tough. As a somewhat similar data+compute problem, I can't think of an open-source project that effectively dethroned Google Search, for example... At least, not by being better at search (you can argue that maybe LLMs are dethroning Google, but on the other hand, it's not the open source models that are the best at that, it's closed-source GPT-4).
- karmasimida 3y ago
  GPT-4 is a must if tool using is your goal. GPT-3.5, I think it is mostly suitable for: 1. Quick documentation lookup for non-essential facts 2. Lightweight documents writing and rewriting 3. Translation Other use cases should go straightly to GPT-4
  - feanaro 3y ago
    Ah, "tool using", the best of goals.
quijoteuniv 3y ago
This is what happened with kubernetes no? Open source was about to take over so google release the code not to loose out.
- rektide 3y ago
  Worthy to note, it seems like there were some incredibly dedicated hardworking engineers that drove extremely hard for a really long time to make this happen. They did manage to get large buy in from the company after quite a significant journey. But it seems so much like a kind of outside event, something begat & pushed for not because it was a smart top down move, but because a couple super driven engineers made it their cause.
  - asadotzler 3y ago
    I see this often. We didn't document our efforts well at creating the OSS ecosystem that youngsters take for granted today. They attribute the efforts of some thousands of advocates that made all this happen to "market forces" or some other nonsense. OSS exists because some really dedicated hackers and their allies spent years of mostly unrewarded effort making it happen.
kashkhan 3y ago
aren't androids linux? thats the biggest by far end user platform. of course google doesnt want to acknowledge it too much. https://source.android.com/ https://source.android.com/
amon22 3y ago
> users will go to whoever has the best model Not me, I refuse to use OpenAI products but I do sometimes use vicuna 13b when I'm coding C. It's pretty good and I'm happy to see the rapid advancement of open source LLMs. It gives me hope for the future. > Linux won in servers and supercomputing, but not in end user computing. I use linux on all of my computers and I love it, many of us do (obviously). I'm aware that I'm a small minority even among other developers but I think looking at just statistics misses the point. Even if the majority will just use the most approachable tool (and there is nothing wrong with that), it's important to have an alternative. For me this is the point of open software, not market domination or whatever.
alfor 3y ago
How can a company keep up with the speed of what is happening in the open? Open AI had years of advanced that almost vanished in a few months. And we will see the rise of specialized models, smaller but targeted, working in team, delegating (Hugging GPT) I would use a small and fast model that only speak english, is expert at coding an science and not much more. Then you fire up an question to another model if yours is out of it’s area.
- goatlover 3y ago
  Will the average use know or want to use different models when they can just go to ChatGPT?
  - usrbinbash 3y ago
    The average user won't have to care when these models run as part of whatever app he is using on his device, or on the server his app uses as a backend. Look at the first uses of StableDiffusion. It was either "you know python or you use Dall-E". Now we have one-click installers setting everything up, and nice user interfaces on top of it.
mesh 3y ago
>The point I'm wanting to make is that users will go to whoever has the best model. Best isn't defined just by quality though. In some instances for some groups, things like whether the model is trained on licensed content (with permission) and / or is safe for commercial use is more important. This is one reason why Adobe's Firefly has been received relatively well. (I work for Adobe).
- zirgs 3y ago
  Adobe Firefly can't be run locally and Adobe knows everything that their users generate. I can't train my own LoRAs or checkpoints. Adobe also has proven that they can't keep the data of their users secure. Which is why it's better to use something else.
wokwokwok 3y ago
What? No, what the article said was: > At that pace, it doesn’t take long before the cumulative effect of all of these fine-tunings overcomes starting off at a size disadvantage. >Indeed, in terms of engineer-hours, the pace of improvement from these models vastly outstrips what we can do with our largest variants, and > the best are already largely indistinguishable from ChatGPT. ^ The author did not note chat gpt is better, the author claims that the 7B koala model is 'largely indistinguishable from ChatGPT'. and: > While ChatGPT still holds a slight edge, more than 50% of the time users either prefer Koala or have no preference. Which is highly misleading. The koala authors rated their model by passing it to 100 people using the mechanical turk, noting: > To mitigate possible test-set leakage, we filtered out queries that have a BLEU score greater than 20% with any example from our training set. Additionally, we removed non-English and coding-related prompts, since responses to these queries cannot be reliably reviewed by our pool of raters (crowd workers). So. What you have is a model that performs pretty well for some trivial conversational prompting tasks. What you DO NOT have, is something that is: "largely indistinguishable from ChatGPT". Anyway, regardless of the creative interpretation of the authors writing, the point that I'm making is that your point: > So, the winning strategy is whatever strategy allows your model to compound in quality faster and to continue to compound that growth in quality for longer. Is founded on the assumption from the post that: > While the individual fine tunings are low rank, their sum need not be, allowing full-rank updates to the model to accumulate over time. ie. If you fine tune it enough, it'll get better and better in an unlimited fashion. Which is provably false. If I have a 10-parameter model, there is no possible way that the accumulation of low rank fine tunings will make it the equivalent of a 7B, 13B of 135B model. It is simply not complex enough to do some tasks. Similarly, smaller models like 3B or 7B model, appear to have an upper bound on what is possible to achieve with them regardless of the number of fine tunings applied to them, for the direct and obvious same reason. There is an upper bound on what is possible, based on the model size. The 'best' size for a model hasn't really been figured out, but... I'm getting pretty sick of people saying these 7B models are as good as 'ChatGPT'. They. Are. Not. People will go to the best models, with the best licenses, but... those models are, it seems, unlikely to be fine tuned smallish models.
aws_ls 3y ago
> Linux won in servers and supercomputing, but not in end user computing Android is based on Linux.

by tikkun 3y ago

wahnfrieden 3y ago

GPT4 sucks for many use cases because it's SLOW. It will co-exist with ChatGPT variants.

jquery 3y ago
It's about using the right tool for the right job. GPT-4 is an incredibly versatile generalist tool and a fantastic jack of all trades. However, this comes with some drawbacks. While saying it 'sucks' might be an exaggeration, I generally concur with the point you're making.
- wahnfrieden 3y ago
  It's no exaggeration that it sucks for certain use cases where you would expect and can achieve near-realtime response, and that's fine because it's not built for that use case. I'm responding to someone saying it's always best if you can afford it
happycube 3y ago
And far more expensive than ChatGPT via API, so it makes sense to use ChatGPT3.5, or the locally run equivalents once they get as good, as much as possible.
chaxor 3y ago
It's quite fast if you use it at ~4 AM in the US. There's definitely a cycle in time. Putting things in a queue to run while you sleep is a good work around.
yesimahuman 3y ago
Yea 3.5 is more than good enough for a whole slew of tasks (especially code), and it's ridiculously fast. I rarely find the need to use 4 but certainly if there was a usecase it was significantly better at that mattered to me, I would.

hospitalJail 3y ago

>Midjourney is more popular (from what I'm seeing) than Stable Diffusion at the moment because it's better at the moment. Midjourney is closed-source. Midjourney is easier, its not better. The low barrier to entry has it popular, but it isnt as realistic, doesnt follow the prompt as well, and has almost no customization. SD is the holy grail of AI art, if you can afford a computer or server to run SD + have the ability to figure out how to install python, clone Automatic1111 from git, and run the installer, its the best. Those 3 steps are too much for most people, so they default to something more like an app. Maybe it is too soon, but it seems SD has already won. MJ is like using MS paint, where SD is like photoshop.

ketzo 3y ago
Do you have a link to a decent tutorial for someone to do what you're describing in the last paragraph?
- hospitalJail 3y ago
  Do you need additional detail that cannot be found here? https://github.com/AUTOMATIC1111/stable-diffusion-webui https://github.com/AUTOMATIC1111/stable-diffusion-webui Or are you looking for the cutting edge stuff like control net? If you want to use colab instead, I used this a month or two ago. https://colab.research.google.com/github/TheLastBen/fast-stable-diffusion/blob/main/fast_stable_diffusion_AUTOMATIC1111.ipynb https://colab.research.google.com/github/TheLastBen/fast-sta... I hope other people can give you further reading.
- erichocean 3y ago
  There are dozens on YouTube. My kids did it, and they don't even program and had never touched Python in their life. Even trained their own models using a cloud GPU. The SD ecosystem is wild.
- xhrpost 3y ago
  It took me a little hunting, but thanks to Reddit I eventually found a cloud-gpu host that provides a working Stable Diffusion image. So you basically don't have to do anything that GP said. Everything is installed and you just rent the hardware. https://www.runpod.io/console/templates https://www.runpod.io/console/templates Look for "RunPod Stable Diffusion". I spent a whole $0.35/hr playing around with my own SD instance that I had running in minutes.

toyg 3y ago

> Linux won in servers and supercomputing, but not in end user computing "End user computing" these days means mobile, and mobile is dominated by Linux (in Apple's case BSD, but we're splitting hair) and Chrome/WebKit - which began as KHTML. The only area where opensource failed is the desktop, and that's also because of Microsoft's skill in defending their moats.

kenjackson 3y ago
The kernel isn't the OS/environment. Distiling iOS to BSD is just not useful in the context of this discussion.
- toyg 3y ago
  The kernel is absolutely the OS, the desktop environment is an interface to it.
  - kenjackson 3y ago
    The kernel is part of it. But it's not all of it. Again, especially in the context of this discussion.
  - tremon 3y ago
    Is e.g. libc part of the OS, or the desktop environment?

mirekrusin 3y ago

If you think you can use GPT-4 then you don't know what you're talking about. API access is on waitlist. UI has limit of 25 messages in 3 hours. If you think big, known companies can get ahead of the waitlist and use it - short answer is no, they can't because of their IP. Nobody is going to sign off leaking out all internal knowledge to play with something. ClosedAI seems to have big problem with capacity. Those poems about your colleague's upcoming birthday do burn a lot of GPU cycles.

Closi 3y ago
Pretty easy to get API access, I got it within a few days. Aware this is a sample of one, but also can’t believe they fast tracked me.
- rolisz 3y ago
  It took me several weeks to get access. I just got it today.
  - dwringer 3y ago
    I've been waiting a little over a month with no update so far, but I don't expect any sort of fast track since I'm not currently a paying customer.
    - Closi 3y ago
      Are you using the gpt3 api?
realusername 3y ago
That's also why I think OpenAI is in a tough spot in the long run. They just threw as much expensive hardware as they could to build this moat. There's basically two things which can happen from now on: - Some scalability breakthrough will appear, if that's the case their moat disappears pretty much instantly and the cost of LLMs will plunge close to zero being a commodity. That's the future I'm betting on from what's happening now. - No scalability breakthrough will appear and then it means that they will have a hard time to expand further as seen as the gpt4 limited access. Either way, they are in a tough spot.

visarga 3y ago

> users will go to whoever has the best model Depends. You might want privacy, need low price in order to process big volumes, need no commercial restrictions, need a different tuning, or the task is easy enough and can be done by the smaller free model - why not? Why pay money, leak information, and get subjected to their rules? You will only use GPT-4 or 5 for that 10% of tasks that really require it. The future spells bad for OpenAI, there is less profit in the large and seldom used big models. For 90% of the tasks there is a "good enough" level, and we're approaching it, we don't need smarter models except rarely. Another concern for big model developers is data leaks - you can exfiltrate the skills of a large model by batch solving tasks. This works pretty well, you can make smaller models that are just as good as GPT-4 but on a single task. So you can do that if you need to call the API too many times - make your own free and libre model. I think the logical response in this situation would be to start working on AI-anti-malware, like filters for fake news and deceptive sites. It's gonna be a cat and mouse game from now on. Better to accept this situation and move on, we can't stop AI misuse completely, we'll have to manage it, and learn quickly.

nabakin 3y ago

I think the best situation is when a company will perform an expensive but high value task that the open source community can't and then give it back to them for further iterations and development. If the community isn't able to perform a high value task again, a company steps in, does it, and gives it back to the community to restart the process. In this way, everyone's skills are being leveraged to innovate at a rapid pace.

ilyt 3y ago

> The point I'm wanting to make is that users will go to whoever has the best model. So, the winning strategy is whatever strategy allows your model to compound in quality faster and to continue to compound that growth in quality for longer. Best only works till second best is "close enough" and cheaper/free

bilbo0s 3y ago
It's likely they will all be free in time. That's kind of the problem underlying the consternation here. It's the internet all over again. How do you win the race to the bottom? Once there How do you compete effectively with free? Microsoft and Amazon will have billions on billions coming in to float their free offerings for what is effectively eternity in business terms. Probably Google and Meta will as well. What happens to everyone else? I think you have to be in some niche market where you can charge. Because for everyone else, free is unsustainable. Porn maybe? But there will be way too many competitors there. So something more like medical. Or semiconductors. Or construction or something.
- ilyt 3y ago
  > It's likely they will all be free in time. That's kind of the problem underlying the consternation here. That what I was getting to. Paid only makes sense if you're willing to provide stuff that OSS lacks, which is either "super specialized things not many people want to OSS" or, well good looking UI... (there seem to be massive lack of any UI/UX people vs developers in near anything OSS). AI is neither so it will be commoditized and mostly run in few OSS projects, and probably for the best, the only thing worse than anyone having access to "near free copywriter bot that will write about anything you tell it to" is only people with money having access and control over it.

LordDragonfang 3y ago

Midjourney is more popular because it takes zero technical know-how compared to SD (even with A1111 it took me nearly an hour to walk my competent-but-layman brother through installing it) and doesn't require a high-end gaming PC to run it. (DALL-E lost because they let MJ eat their lunch)

dragonwriter 3y ago
> Midjourney is more popular because it takes zero technical know-how compared to SD Both take zero technical knowledge to use the base models via first-party online hosts, but Midjourney is superior there. SD offers a lot more capacity beyond what is available from the first-party online host, though, while with Midjourney, that’s where it begins and ends, there is nothing more. > and doesn’t require a high-end gaming PC to run it. Neither does SD (I use a couple-year-old business laptop with a 4GB Nvidia card; no sane person would call it a “highend gaming PC” to run A1111 locally, and there are options besides running it locally.)
cubefox 3y ago
> DALL-E lost because they let MJ eat their lunch I wonder why nobody is talking about Bing Image Creator https://www.bing.com/images/create https://www.bing.com/images/create which uses some much more advanced version of Dall-E 2 in the background (so Dall-E 2.5? 3?), while being completely free to use. It can produce some pretty mind blowing results with quite simple prompts, although apparently not as impressive as Midjourney V5. A few examples: hyperrealistic https://www.bing.com/images/create/hyperrealistic/644fa0c48f8d4f04b33ca7c3552fc386?id=UOySTqHpq1q018d6HF%2byhg%3d%3d&view=detailv2&idpp=genimg https://www.bing.com/images/create/hyperrealistic/644fa0c48f... an allegory for femininity https://www.bing.com/images/create/an-allegory-for-femininity/64519153f532435e9053d5e4e205af1c?id=VLiGLPbicVhfS8w9Z9mKjg%3d%3d&view=detailv2&idpp=genimg https://www.bing.com/images/create/an-allegory-for-femininit... portrait of a strange woman, hyperrealistic https://www.bing.com/images/create/portrait-of-a-strange-woman2c-hyperrealistic/644fe78d039348c695df418488748a87?id=nbnDmSSnJBmT997fzymUQw%3d%3d&view=detailv2&idpp=genimg https://www.bing.com/images/create/portrait-of-a-strange-wom... allegory of logic, portrait https://www.bing.com/images/create/allegory-of-logic2c-portrait/644725e29fc54856a7a6671389994d9c?id=%2b32HaPz%2fbHN0ZnwhHeX5qA%3d%3d&view=detailv2&idpp=genimg https://www.bing.com/images/create/allegory-of-logic2c-portr... her strange bedfellow https://www.bing.com/images/create/her-strange-bedfellow/6447109c23e14ab9a737374e3a8e01bf?id=rwYVs44xqL5jy2nMkXrsXw%3d%3d&view=detailv2&idpp=genimg https://www.bing.com/images/create/her-strange-bedfellow/644... Mrs fox https://www.bing.com/images/create/mrs-fox/6446e85a32134e649ab48967867a84b4?id=yKgIp7c6PVT2Hv8icrenRQ%3d%3d&view=detailv2&idpp=genimg https://www.bing.com/images/create/mrs-fox/6446e85a32134e649... inside view https://www.bing.com/images/create/inside-view/6446f1dc573f463e9a9fa924a71da6c3?id=xqEfDLAg7Q5lZpDiqxOhpw%3d%3d&view=detailv2&idpp=genimg https://www.bing.com/images/create/inside-view/6446f1dc573f4... in the midst of it all https://www.bing.com/images/create/in-the-midst-of-it-all/6446f8499c7b412ca19ae83d4d61ff79?id=zKszK%2fOAA5ACbFQ%2blJ61Rg%3d%3d&view=detailv2&idpp=genimg https://www.bing.com/images/create/in-the-midst-of-it-all/64... strange gal https://www.bing.com/images/create/strange-gal/6446e2a2ea7a413b9a52e9093e5aae80?id=GsbjXXkwYDkBrL1gA2HT%2bg%3d%3d&view=detailv2&idpp=genimg https://www.bing.com/images/create/strange-gal/6446e2a2ea7a4... sighting of a strange entity in an abandoned library https://www.bing.com/images/create/sighting-of-a-strange-entity-in-an-abandoned-libra/64451d025579482bbf024ef8724b6d1d?id=baZsjFMi%2bc7TWb4bmyfW4A%3d%3d&view=detailv2&idpp=genimg https://www.bing.com/images/create/sighting-of-a-strange-ent... sleeping marble woman next to a wall of strange pictures inside an abandoned museum, close-up https://www.bing.com/images/create/sleeping-marble-woman-next-to-a-wall-of-strange-pi/6444b8be3bf74947b41032e2d8b49e20?id=yBX3nlC08MJGXtvrw563dA%3d%3d&view=detailv2&idpp=genimg https://www.bing.com/images/create/sleeping-marble-woman-nex... sculpture of a woman posing next to a wall of strange pictures, close-up https://www.bing.com/images/create/sculpture-of-a-woman-posing-next-to-a-wall-of-stra/6444a97707b34371a98a0d18aadce8e8?id=D7Xpp9gK8VnWzlRFiAbSqg%3d%3d&view=detailv2&idpp=genimg https://www.bing.com/images/create/sculpture-of-a-woman-posi... Easter https://www.bing.com/images/create/easter/643ae4968aff432684b02d4bbe7c73b6?id=qSfaYs7b91zVdSdCum2ppQ%3d%3d&view=detailv2&idpp=genimg https://www.bing.com/images/create/easter/643ae4968aff432684... Christmas on board a spaceship, DSLR photograph https://www.bing.com/images/create/christmas-on-board-a-spaceship2c-dslr-photograph/643b11f856344beda54cf8d145625a36?id=2QI%2f5m5raxPlSmsxYWME%2bQ%3d%3d&view=detailv2&idpp=genimg https://www.bing.com/images/create/christmas-on-board-a-spac... an angel, dancing to heavy metal https://www.bing.com/images/create/an-angel2c-dancing-to-heavy-metal/643b2a5144d9457ba3e63a75192e9815?id=%2b3J%2bFp3UaESTjaqJVRWlkw%3d%3d&view=detailv2&idpp=genimg https://www.bing.com/images/create/an-angel2c-dancing-to-hea... Saturday afternoon in the streets of a buzzing cyberpunk city, photo-realistic, DSLR https://www.bing.com/images/create/saturday-afternoon-in-the-streets-of-a-buzzing-cyb/641cb3be6f604143b7ebe6eeabe5e954?id=JDvm4GA9aLZ%2bT05rMqL4mA%3d%3d&view=detailv2&idpp=genimg https://www.bing.com/images/create/saturday-afternoon-in-the... The Dogfather https://www.bing.com/images/create/the-dogfather/6441d18950ba4e2eab5e7c6773fd94c0?id=QR%2fSef49ci15P32eAW43Hg%3d%3d&view=detailv2&idpp=genimg https://www.bing.com/images/create/the-dogfather/6441d18950b... the unlikely guest https://www.bing.com/images/create/the-unlikely-guest/644446fcc1ba4478bd226ed1e0128b18?id=UWclQl%2fM2%2bYxjW9f0VW0vg%3d%3d&view=detailv2&idpp=genimg https://www.bing.com/images/create/the-unlikely-guest/644446... Strange pictures in an abandoned museum https://www.bing.com/images/create/strange-pictures-in-an-abandoned-museum/6444559ec0394d7382b288d0676c39c1?id=i%2bf9ulLO%2b3yMNGR61EV%2fqw%3d%3d&view=detailv2&idpp=genimg https://www.bing.com/images/create/strange-pictures-in-an-ab... strange woman in an abandoned museum, close-up https://www.bing.com/images/create/strange-woman-in-an-abandoned-museum2c-close-up/64447d1bc0ce4ad69beb19d92c42b828?id=1n9AjVx9Ob%2bj6d4mh04KOg%3d%3d&view=detailv2&idpp=genimg https://www.bing.com/images/create/strange-woman-in-an-aband... strange woman in an abandoned museum, strange pictures in the background https://www.bing.com/images/create/strange-woman-in-an-abandoned-museum2c-strange-pict/64447eed701f4ee8ac580c0e25c52ce9?id=E%2fJ%2fPsbeGoOWhZrPmnrQKQ%3d%3d&view=detailv2&idpp=genimg https://www.bing.com/images/create/strange-woman-in-an-aband... a wall of strange pictures in an abandoned museum in Atlantis, close-up https://www.bing.com/images/create/a-wall-of-strange-pictures-in-an-abandoned-museum-/6444821e41b446aaac45b3c5e62a9a3e?id=N619lGeImVO%2bAkvss3mxdg%3d%3d&view=detailv2&idpp=genimg https://www.bing.com/images/create/a-wall-of-strange-picture... female sculpture in an abandoned museum in Atlantis, close-up https://www.bing.com/images/create/female-sculpture-in-an-abandoned-museum-in-atlanti/644489b3b03b4d5bb42c6f96bd0f6e33?id=WHbqlG%2fXxn1%2bUyMcTmIzmQ%3d%3d&view=detailv2&idpp=genimg https://www.bing.com/images/create/female-sculpture-in-an-ab... the unlikely guest https://www.bing.com/images/create/the-unlikely-guest/6444908ea6264cbd987a75c16cbdbb8d?id=VbWd9SE%2f1agad%2bnjDobHsw%3d%3d&view=detailv2&idpp=genimg https://www.bing.com/images/create/the-unlikely-guest/644490... an unlikely guest of the secret society in the lost city in a country without name, close-up https://www.bing.com/images/create/an-unlikely-guest-of-the-secret-society-in-the-los/6444927c654f4a9289fdb744eb67a392?id=3aAG9FoYdJNY5lj4CWlb%2bg%3d%3d&view=detailv2&idpp=genimg https://www.bing.com/images/create/an-unlikely-guest-of-the-... I think the quality of most of these pictures is far beyond what is achievable with Dall-E 2. One issue that still exists (though to a lesser extent) is the fact that faces have to cover a fairly large area of the image. Smaller faces look strange, e.g. here: photograph of the unlikely guests https://www.bing.com/images/create/photograph-of-the-unlikely-guests/64448f8abc834a28945e32118955d207?id=xSsSPWDVR47REfDaDw4RKw%3d%3d&view=detailv2&idpp=genimg https://www.bing.com/images/create/photograph-of-the-unlikel... It is as if the model creates a good draft in low resolution, and another model scales it up, but the latter model doesn't know what a face is? (I have no idea how diffusion models actually work.)

seydor 3y ago

None of the models will "win" because it is just a foundation. Google won because they leveeraged the linux ecosystem to build a monetizable business with a moat on top of it. The real moat will be some specific application on top of LLMs

MetaWhirledPeas 3y ago

> Linux won in servers and supercomputing, but not in end user computing. Pardon the side discussion, but I think this is because of a few things. 1. OS-exclusive "killer apps" (Office, anything that integrates with an iPhone) 2. Games The killer apps have better alternatives now, and games are starting to work better on Linux. Microsoft's business model no longer requires everyone to use Windows. (Mac is another story.) So I think that, at least for non-Macolytes, Linux end user dominance is certainly on the horizon.

flerchin 3y ago
This year is the year of the Linux Desktop! I kid. I've been primarily a Linux Desktop user for 20 years.
importantbrian 3y ago
Linux did kind of win for end user computing. Android is based on a modified linux kernel.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

tontomath 3y ago

I think that pouring a lot of money in open source, by bounties or crowdfunding can accelerate open source alternatives to closed LLMs. Perhaps a middle way in which software will be declared open source six month from now can give enough compensation to those institutions contributing big money for developing LLM technology. That is a crowdfunding in which the great contributors have a limited time to be compensated, but capping the total prize just like that of chatgpt 3.5 or 4 depending of the model.

randomdata 3y ago

> Linux won in servers and supercomputing, but not in end user computing. It seems just about every computing appliance in my home runs Linux. Then you have Android, ChromeOS, etc. which are also quite popular with end users, the first one especially. It may not have won, but I think it is safe to say that it is dominating.

jononor 3y ago
Appliances are not end user computing, but embedded computing - the OS is incidental and under full control of the manufacturer. Some might argue that even mobile phones are not sufficiently under the control of end users to qualify.
- randomdata 3y ago
  > Appliances are not end user computing They are when the end user is using them. Think things like TVs or even thermostats. > the OS is incidental and under full control of the manufacturer. For all intents and purposes Linux has won where those conditions aren’t met.

reissbaker 3y ago

GPT-4 is so much better for complex tasks that I wouldn't use anything else. Trying to get 3.5 to do anything complicated is like pulling teeth, and using something worse than 3.5... Oof. TBH this feels like cope from Google; Bard is embarrassingly bad and they expected to be able to compete with OpenAI. In my experience, despite their graph in the article that puts them ahead of Vicuna-13B, they're actually behind... And you can't even use Bard as a developer, there's no API! But GPT-4 is so, so much better. It's not clear to me that individual people doing LoRa at home is going to meaningfully close the gap in terms of generalized capability — at least, not faster than OpenAI itself improves its models. Similarly, StableDiffusion's image quality progress has in my experience stalled out, whereas Midjourney continues to dramatically improve every couple months, and easily beats SD. Open source isn't a magic bullet for quality. Edit: re: the complaints about Midjourney's UI being Discord — sure, that definitely constrains what you can do with it, but OpenAI's interface isn't Discord, it has an API. And you can fine-tune the GPT-3 models programmatically too, and although they haven't opened that up to GPT-4 yet, IME you can't fine-tune your way to GPT-4 quality anyway with anything. "There's no moat" and "OpenAI is irrelevant" feel like the cries of the company that's losing to OpenAI and wants to save face on the way out. Getting repeated generational improvements without the dataset size and compute scale of a dedicated, well-capitalized company is going to be very tough. As a somewhat similar data+compute problem, I can't think of an open-source project that effectively dethroned Google Search, for example... At least, not by being better at search (you can argue that maybe LLMs are dethroning Google, but on the other hand, it's not the open source models that are the best at that, it's closed-source GPT-4).

karmasimida 3y ago
GPT-4 is a must if tool using is your goal. GPT-3.5, I think it is mostly suitable for: 1. Quick documentation lookup for non-essential facts 2. Lightweight documents writing and rewriting 3. Translation Other use cases should go straightly to GPT-4
- feanaro 3y ago
  Ah, "tool using", the best of goals.

quijoteuniv 3y ago

This is what happened with kubernetes no? Open source was about to take over so google release the code not to loose out.

rektide 3y ago
Worthy to note, it seems like there were some incredibly dedicated hardworking engineers that drove extremely hard for a really long time to make this happen. They did manage to get large buy in from the company after quite a significant journey. But it seems so much like a kind of outside event, something begat & pushed for not because it was a smart top down move, but because a couple super driven engineers made it their cause.
- asadotzler 3y ago
  I see this often. We didn't document our efforts well at creating the OSS ecosystem that youngsters take for granted today. They attribute the efforts of some thousands of advocates that made all this happen to "market forces" or some other nonsense. OSS exists because some really dedicated hackers and their allies spent years of mostly unrewarded effort making it happen.

kashkhan 3y ago

aren't androids linux? thats the biggest by far end user platform. of course google doesnt want to acknowledge it too much. https://source.android.com/ https://source.android.com/

amon22 3y ago

> users will go to whoever has the best model Not me, I refuse to use OpenAI products but I do sometimes use vicuna 13b when I'm coding C. It's pretty good and I'm happy to see the rapid advancement of open source LLMs. It gives me hope for the future. > Linux won in servers and supercomputing, but not in end user computing. I use linux on all of my computers and I love it, many of us do (obviously). I'm aware that I'm a small minority even among other developers but I think looking at just statistics misses the point. Even if the majority will just use the most approachable tool (and there is nothing wrong with that), it's important to have an alternative. For me this is the point of open software, not market domination or whatever.

alfor 3y ago

How can a company keep up with the speed of what is happening in the open? Open AI had years of advanced that almost vanished in a few months. And we will see the rise of specialized models, smaller but targeted, working in team, delegating (Hugging GPT) I would use a small and fast model that only speak english, is expert at coding an science and not much more. Then you fire up an question to another model if yours is out of it’s area.

goatlover 3y ago
Will the average use know or want to use different models when they can just go to ChatGPT?
- usrbinbash 3y ago
  The average user won't have to care when these models run as part of whatever app he is using on his device, or on the server his app uses as a backend. Look at the first uses of StableDiffusion. It was either "you know python or you use Dall-E". Now we have one-click installers setting everything up, and nice user interfaces on top of it.

mesh 3y ago

>The point I'm wanting to make is that users will go to whoever has the best model. Best isn't defined just by quality though. In some instances for some groups, things like whether the model is trained on licensed content (with permission) and / or is safe for commercial use is more important. This is one reason why Adobe's Firefly has been received relatively well. (I work for Adobe).

zirgs 3y ago
Adobe Firefly can't be run locally and Adobe knows everything that their users generate. I can't train my own LoRAs or checkpoints. Adobe also has proven that they can't keep the data of their users secure. Which is why it's better to use something else.

wokwokwok 3y ago

What? No, what the article said was: > At that pace, it doesn’t take long before the cumulative effect of all of these fine-tunings overcomes starting off at a size disadvantage. >Indeed, in terms of engineer-hours, the pace of improvement from these models vastly outstrips what we can do with our largest variants, and > the best are already largely indistinguishable from ChatGPT. ^ The author did not note chat gpt is better, the author claims that the 7B koala model is 'largely indistinguishable from ChatGPT'. and: > While ChatGPT still holds a slight edge, more than 50% of the time users either prefer Koala or have no preference. Which is highly misleading. The koala authors rated their model by passing it to 100 people using the mechanical turk, noting: > To mitigate possible test-set leakage, we filtered out queries that have a BLEU score greater than 20% with any example from our training set. Additionally, we removed non-English and coding-related prompts, since responses to these queries cannot be reliably reviewed by our pool of raters (crowd workers). So. What you have is a model that performs pretty well for some trivial conversational prompting tasks. What you DO NOT have, is something that is: "largely indistinguishable from ChatGPT". Anyway, regardless of the creative interpretation of the authors writing, the point that I'm making is that your point: > So, the winning strategy is whatever strategy allows your model to compound in quality faster and to continue to compound that growth in quality for longer. Is founded on the assumption from the post that: > While the individual fine tunings are low rank, their sum need not be, allowing full-rank updates to the model to accumulate over time. ie. If you fine tune it enough, it'll get better and better in an unlimited fashion. Which is provably false. If I have a 10-parameter model, there is no possible way that the accumulation of low rank fine tunings will make it the equivalent of a 7B, 13B of 135B model. It is simply not complex enough to do some tasks. Similarly, smaller models like 3B or 7B model, appear to have an upper bound on what is possible to achieve with them regardless of the number of fine tunings applied to them, for the direct and obvious same reason. There is an upper bound on what is possible, based on the model size. The 'best' size for a model hasn't really been figured out, but... I'm getting pretty sick of people saying these 7B models are as good as 'ChatGPT'. They. Are. Not. People will go to the best models, with the best licenses, but... those models are, it seems, unlikely to be fine tuned smallish models.

aws_ls 3y ago

> Linux won in servers and supercomputing, but not in end user computing Android is based on Linux.