10 ms·

An Internet Canvas

139 points by jaflo 3y ago

rpgbr 3y ago
I block Google web fonts, and it seems this breaks badly mmm.pages. I wonder why…? Also, why does mmm.page loads ~160 Google web fonts?
- xhfloz 3y ago
  Unfortunate compromise of not paying for font licenses — and google fonts is the most extensive collection of free fonts. As for fonts — it’s unideal! Those initial fonts are actually just the glyphs subset of fonts so I can display their names in the font picker. It’s already somewhat cut down by separating the fonts into basic and all, as well as delaying the load a few seconds after initial load, but still a lot to fix up there.
mza 3y ago
mmm (www upside down) is super fun, useful, and finely crafted with a suitably peculiar community around it. Recommended.
justin_oaks 3y ago
Simple and straightforward editing. The editor even uses sounds to indicate when you've applied your changes. Using a WYSIWYG editor is really useful for people who want to create content, not create an app.
xhfloz 3y ago
Oy. Author of this. Surprised to see this here. If you’re curious, recently launched beta [1] and also wrote up a “why” to the project [2]. Also: a StumbleUpon-like explore experience of pages created using mmm.page [3]. [1] https://twitter.com/xhfloz/status/1653740562648821760?s=46 https://twitter.com/xhfloz/status/1653740562648821760?s=46 [2] https://twitter.com/xhfloz/status/1631746024120221698?s=46 https://twitter.com/xhfloz/status/1631746024120221698?s=46 [3] https://explore.mmm.page https://explore.mmm.page
- armitron 3y ago
  Sorry not gonna pay 5$ a month for what should essentially be free and open part of the web (instead of VC-funded and monetized).
  - xhfloz 3y ago
    Not VC-funded :) As to charging an (optional) paid plan, unfortunately, I have been bootstrapping this full-time the past few years, and because I can’t till my own land anymore, have to find the least terrible way of exchanging labor for money, such that I can pay for food and bills. That being said, there is a free tier for this very reason, as I remember all the free services that got me started initially. Hoping to make this tier more generous once the project is profitable. Let me know if you have other ideas. If I can (a) pay for business costs (accounting, APIs, hosting, etc), (b) pay for my bills, (c) attain a and b w/ incentives that align with my users and the principles of the project — I am all ears.
  - throw74774 3y ago
    I like the idea that parts of the ‘should’ be free and open, but I’m curious how the people who work on these things would have time to do so if not paid. Are you suggesting that they should be paid by the government - I.e. out of taxes? Or are you simply saying if it’s part of the web, people should work on it for free - basically like open source? Even in this case, I don’t see where the money for infrastructure and power comes from. Maybe I’m missing another alternative.
- waboremo 3y ago
  Just wanted to say mmm.page has been such a big inspiration for me and your design taste is impeccable -- in case it hasn't been said enough already!
  - xhfloz 3y ago
    Thank you! Curious — how did you find out about mmm initially?
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
ReadEvalPost 3y ago
Vienna Hypertext fits exactly this niche: https://vienna.earth/ https://vienna.earth/
- jrm4 3y ago
  You absolutely lost me personally with "raises 2.5 million in capital" History tells me to never trust anything this well funded for something likely to be so personal. Perhaps theres a business case and good luck, but I'll be avoiding.
  - xhfloz 3y ago
    Thanks for sharing original link — had not seen that project before. I’ll refrain from commenting on their funding, but fyi is mmm.page is wholly bootstrapped (which has left a healthy dent in my savings over the past three years haha). So if you enjoy the project, or want to support some of the researchy aspects of it, please consider upgrading! I have another article in the works about the importance of independent funding models and slow growth incentives w/r/t organic social networks, and projects that necessarily require slow exploration as a community (not, in contrast, “spaces designed by committee”).
- shove 3y ago
  I’m not saying this is vaporware but … where’s the app?
twic 3y ago
> Also, so I’m walking the walk, this page is fully editable. Read once normal, then try editing it. So how do you do that? I'm probably missing something very obvious here.
- xhfloz 3y ago
  The page shared here was a read-only version. The editable version is at: https://paper.mmm.dev https://paper.mmm.dev (But due to some iFrame hackiness, it doesn’t work in incognito.)
  - egypturnash 3y ago
    Poking at the editor sure reminds me of swearing at Wordpress' Block Editor.
    - xhfloz 3y ago
      Oof. I take it that’s not a great thing.
akhayam 3y ago
My world started with LaTeX so I'll support an editor with the audacious goal of making editing "fun". Wasn't aware of mmm, but it looks and "feels" great. PS: I am still in love with LaTeX--one of the only strongly-typed editors still standing the test of time.
babblingfish 3y ago
MySpace vibes
- MarcoZavala 3y ago
  [dead]
- dot5xdev 3y ago
  lol! I thought the exact same thing! Totally reminded me of old MySpace pages.
jborichevskiy 3y ago
Huge fan! Excited to follow along and especially stoked for mmm.town. Keep up the amazing work
RodgerTheGreat 3y ago
As someone pursuing my own vision of a hypercard-like multimedia environment that lives in a self-contained HTML document, I'm quite interested in learning about the approach mmm.page takes with interactivity, but attempting to add "custom code" just tells me I need to upgrade. Is there somewhere with more details?
torgard 3y ago
This is really cool. Absolutely fantastic editor! I'm blown away
can16358p 3y ago
In a mobile-first world I couldn't find a way to edit anything on the page on my iPhone. The idea might be nice but without any mobile support (where a huge portion of the world is) it's impossible to tell whether it's good or not as we can't try it. //edit okay it does work on mobile after reading other comments. Though the link on HN is wrong as I'm writing this: it points to a non-editable page.
cenan 3y ago
The homepage is very slow for me and causes my CPU fan to spin like crazy.
- xhfloz 3y ago
  It could do with a heavy perf pass tbh. Haven’t had time juggling all the feature work, but it’s planned for 1.0. Mind letting me know what machine you’re on?

139 points by jaflo 3y ago

I block Google web fonts, and it seems this breaks badly mmm.pages. I wonder why…? Also, why does mmm.page loads ~160 Google web fonts?

xhfloz 3y ago
Unfortunate compromise of not paying for font licenses — and google fonts is the most extensive collection of free fonts. As for fonts — it’s unideal! Those initial fonts are actually just the glyphs subset of fonts so I can display their names in the font picker. It’s already somewhat cut down by separating the fonts into basic and all, as well as delaying the load a few seconds after initial load, but still a lot to fix up there.

mza 3y ago

mmm (www upside down) is super fun, useful, and finely crafted with a suitably peculiar community around it. Recommended.

justin_oaks 3y ago

Simple and straightforward editing. The editor even uses sounds to indicate when you've applied your changes. Using a WYSIWYG editor is really useful for people who want to create content, not create an app.

xhfloz 3y ago

Oy. Author of this. Surprised to see this here. If you’re curious, recently launched beta [1] and also wrote up a “why” to the project [2]. Also: a StumbleUpon-like explore experience of pages created using mmm.page [3]. [1] https://twitter.com/xhfloz/status/1653740562648821760?s=46 https://twitter.com/xhfloz/status/1653740562648821760?s=46 [2] https://twitter.com/xhfloz/status/1631746024120221698?s=46 https://twitter.com/xhfloz/status/1631746024120221698?s=46 [3] https://explore.mmm.page https://explore.mmm.page

armitron 3y ago
Sorry not gonna pay 5$ a month for what should essentially be free and open part of the web (instead of VC-funded and monetized).
- xhfloz 3y ago
  Not VC-funded :) As to charging an (optional) paid plan, unfortunately, I have been bootstrapping this full-time the past few years, and because I can’t till my own land anymore, have to find the least terrible way of exchanging labor for money, such that I can pay for food and bills. That being said, there is a free tier for this very reason, as I remember all the free services that got me started initially. Hoping to make this tier more generous once the project is profitable. Let me know if you have other ideas. If I can (a) pay for business costs (accounting, APIs, hosting, etc), (b) pay for my bills, (c) attain a and b w/ incentives that align with my users and the principles of the project — I am all ears.
- throw74774 3y ago
  I like the idea that parts of the ‘should’ be free and open, but I’m curious how the people who work on these things would have time to do so if not paid. Are you suggesting that they should be paid by the government - I.e. out of taxes? Or are you simply saying if it’s part of the web, people should work on it for free - basically like open source? Even in this case, I don’t see where the money for infrastructure and power comes from. Maybe I’m missing another alternative.
waboremo 3y ago
Just wanted to say mmm.page has been such a big inspiration for me and your design taste is impeccable -- in case it hasn't been said enough already!
- xhfloz 3y ago
  Thank you! Curious — how did you find out about mmm initially?

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

ReadEvalPost 3y ago

Vienna Hypertext fits exactly this niche: https://vienna.earth/ https://vienna.earth/

jrm4 3y ago
You absolutely lost me personally with "raises 2.5 million in capital" History tells me to never trust anything this well funded for something likely to be so personal. Perhaps theres a business case and good luck, but I'll be avoiding.
- xhfloz 3y ago
  Thanks for sharing original link — had not seen that project before. I’ll refrain from commenting on their funding, but fyi is mmm.page is wholly bootstrapped (which has left a healthy dent in my savings over the past three years haha). So if you enjoy the project, or want to support some of the researchy aspects of it, please consider upgrading! I have another article in the works about the importance of independent funding models and slow growth incentives w/r/t organic social networks, and projects that necessarily require slow exploration as a community (not, in contrast, “spaces designed by committee”).
shove 3y ago
I’m not saying this is vaporware but … where’s the app?

twic 3y ago

> Also, so I’m walking the walk, this page is fully editable. Read once normal, then try editing it. So how do you do that? I'm probably missing something very obvious here.

xhfloz 3y ago
The page shared here was a read-only version. The editable version is at: https://paper.mmm.dev https://paper.mmm.dev (But due to some iFrame hackiness, it doesn’t work in incognito.)
- egypturnash 3y ago
  Poking at the editor sure reminds me of swearing at Wordpress' Block Editor.
  - xhfloz 3y ago
    Oof. I take it that’s not a great thing.

akhayam 3y ago

My world started with LaTeX so I'll support an editor with the audacious goal of making editing "fun". Wasn't aware of mmm, but it looks and "feels" great. PS: I am still in love with LaTeX--one of the only strongly-typed editors still standing the test of time.

babblingfish 3y ago

MySpace vibes

MarcoZavala 3y ago
[dead]
dot5xdev 3y ago
lol! I thought the exact same thing! Totally reminded me of old MySpace pages.

jborichevskiy 3y ago

Huge fan! Excited to follow along and especially stoked for mmm.town. Keep up the amazing work

RodgerTheGreat 3y ago

As someone pursuing my own vision of a hypercard-like multimedia environment that lives in a self-contained HTML document, I'm quite interested in learning about the approach mmm.page takes with interactivity, but attempting to add "custom code" just tells me I need to upgrade. Is there somewhere with more details?

torgard 3y ago

This is really cool. Absolutely fantastic editor! I'm blown away

can16358p 3y ago

In a mobile-first world I couldn't find a way to edit anything on the page on my iPhone. The idea might be nice but without any mobile support (where a huge portion of the world is) it's impossible to tell whether it's good or not as we can't try it. //edit okay it does work on mobile after reading other comments. Though the link on HN is wrong as I'm writing this: it points to a non-editable page.

cenan 3y ago

The homepage is very slow for me and causes my CPU fan to spin like crazy.

xhfloz 3y ago
It could do with a heavy perf pass tbh. Haven’t had time juggling all the feature work, but it’s planned for 1.0. Mind letting me know what machine you’re on?