6 ms·

It would be nice if we could find what triggers the body's improved condition when doing exercise, and trigger it maximally without having to do hours of repeti

by make3 3y ago

It would be nice if we could find what triggers the body's improved condition when doing exercise, and trigger it maximally without having to do hours of repetitive nonsense. It's fine if you like to do it, but a lot of us obviously don't. I wonder how the progress is going in this sphere.

algoatecorn 3y ago
But exercise yields more benefit than just cancer prevention. Don't you want to maintain strength and mobility as you age? Sleep better? Build mental and physical resilience? I'll wager that we won't see a substitution for exercise and its benefits. Ever. It's just part of human life, and embracing it is by far the healthiest mindset.
- make3 3y ago
  I'm saying, all of these. Why are they "body moving fast" activated?
  - algoatecorn 3y ago
    Biology is complicated. If we start digging for mechanistic underpinnings, we'll uncover thousands of genes, variants, expression levels, metabolic pathways, epigenetic factors, etc etc etc. None of which will result in a cure-all pill or method to replace exercise and all its benefits. Just not gonna happen unfortunately
    - make3 3y ago
      who's to say.
Freeaqingme 3y ago
I understand where you're coming from. Recently I read someone saying that "it's just like brushing your teeth, it's what your body requires in order to keep functioning properly". That rang a bell with me. After all, I suppose pretty much everyone on HN brushes their teeth at least twice a day. That's also something that you need to build into your routine, somehow. The same goes for exercise. If you build up routines that involve exercise, then it should become easier over time as habits are formed. Something that doesn't help in that regard is cities where car use is almost unavoidable for basic stuff. Ideally, you'd live somewhere where schools and shops are near the places where people live, and the streets are designed so it's safe to walk or cycle. Then you could get some exercise simply by dropping off the children at school or doing some grocery shopping. Street design also isn't some natural phenomenon but something that city councils can make conscious decisions on, so none of it is a given.
its_ethan 3y ago
I'd suggest, from experience, that maybe doing "hours of repetitive nonsense" is what triggers it maximally.
themodelplumber 3y ago
I agree, additionally from the POV that sensory attention is de facto focus-stealing wrt other functionalities. General or anecdotal benefits aside, it typically taxes other systems of attention very heavily. It's also shortsighted to nail ourselves to the cross of "yep, always gonna be exercise, that's just what it takes" when that potentially isn't necessary, and even worse, may prevent huge steps forward in use of human potential. Add to this the many cases in which exercise is not feasible or safe... (GPT mentions the work of Dr. Mark Tarnopolsky but I'm not familiar)
- nradov 3y ago
  What are the "many" cases in which exercise is not feasible or safe? Unless you're an ICU patient on life support or something you can always exercise more. You would have to get pretty far out on the exercise curve, like consistently over 30 hours per week, before safety starts to become a concern. And as for focus stealing it taxing other systems of attention, that's just bullshit. You don't know what you're talking about. A rigorous exercise program actually enhances your ability to focus. Dr. Mark Tarnopolsky is a competitive athlete who exercises a lot and also sells his own line of nutritional supplements. I think he would be the first to tell you that it's always going to be exercise, that's just what it takes. Drugs and nutritional supplements can help a little, especially for people with some underlying pathology, but they will never substitute for frequent hard exercise.
  - themodelplumber 3y ago
    Sorry, it doesn't sound like you have much experience with the topic of needing to not exercise. Can't be much simpler put than that. It's unfortunate that you've conflated this with what seems to be a passionate relationship with pro-exercise philosophies. Which is really out of scope. The list of reasons why exercise may not be feasible is a really, really long one. Just because you can't think of it doesn't mean _anybody_ owes you an answer, particularly not when you throw around those accusatory beauty words like "bullshit". Seriously, that's the best you can do here? You are out of your depth and just raging about it, is how that looks. Focus stealing means you must _always_ focus on the exercise to some degree, so something else loses that focus. Extended focus away from a process that requires energy is de facto energy loss. So, some processes will lose energy when exercise is performed. Simple logic. Safety as a concern is _never_ bound solely to hours spent exercising--this should be obvious on its face. Nobody's threatening to take your passion away, you can still feel free to rage against the perceived lazy people, etc. But come on. You owe the whole world better here in lowering the discourse to this my-horse-sense-must-apply level.
nradov 3y ago
You're not going to find a magic pill that allows you to get away with being lazy. Whether you like to exercise or not is irrelevant. Embrace the suck.
- pyridines 3y ago
  There isn't one now, fine. But why shouldn't we be trying to invent one?
  - nradov 3y ago
    You're welcome to try. If you succeed even partially then you'll be a billionaire. But these are complex biological systems and it's a tremendously difficult problem. I guarantee you that within our lifetimes we won't see a safe and effective drug that produces health benefits equivalent to frequent hard exercise. Many of those benefits come from the physical motion which helps to keep blood and lymph circulating normally so I can't see any way to put that in a pill.
- amrocha 3y ago
  That's the way to make sure you're unhappy. Exercise, and life, should never be about "embracing the suck". Finding ways to exercise that you enjoy and that can fit in your schedule makes it a default state rather than something you avoid.
  - nradov 3y ago
    No, you're just completely wrong. That doesn't make people unhappy. Where did you come up with such a ridiculous notion? Do you lack experience in the real world? Have you never played competitive sports?
    - amrocha 3y ago
      Idk I think I'm completely right, exercise is supposed to be fun and trying to willpower your way through something you hate is a surefire way to be unhappy

by make3 3y ago

algoatecorn 3y ago

But exercise yields more benefit than just cancer prevention. Don't you want to maintain strength and mobility as you age? Sleep better? Build mental and physical resilience? I'll wager that we won't see a substitution for exercise and its benefits. Ever. It's just part of human life, and embracing it is by far the healthiest mindset.

make3 3y ago
I'm saying, all of these. Why are they "body moving fast" activated?
- algoatecorn 3y ago
  Biology is complicated. If we start digging for mechanistic underpinnings, we'll uncover thousands of genes, variants, expression levels, metabolic pathways, epigenetic factors, etc etc etc. None of which will result in a cure-all pill or method to replace exercise and all its benefits. Just not gonna happen unfortunately
  - make3 3y ago
    who's to say.

Freeaqingme 3y ago

I understand where you're coming from. Recently I read someone saying that "it's just like brushing your teeth, it's what your body requires in order to keep functioning properly". That rang a bell with me. After all, I suppose pretty much everyone on HN brushes their teeth at least twice a day. That's also something that you need to build into your routine, somehow. The same goes for exercise. If you build up routines that involve exercise, then it should become easier over time as habits are formed. Something that doesn't help in that regard is cities where car use is almost unavoidable for basic stuff. Ideally, you'd live somewhere where schools and shops are near the places where people live, and the streets are designed so it's safe to walk or cycle. Then you could get some exercise simply by dropping off the children at school or doing some grocery shopping. Street design also isn't some natural phenomenon but something that city councils can make conscious decisions on, so none of it is a given.

its_ethan 3y ago

I'd suggest, from experience, that maybe doing "hours of repetitive nonsense" is what triggers it maximally.

themodelplumber 3y ago

I agree, additionally from the POV that sensory attention is de facto focus-stealing wrt other functionalities. General or anecdotal benefits aside, it typically taxes other systems of attention very heavily. It's also shortsighted to nail ourselves to the cross of "yep, always gonna be exercise, that's just what it takes" when that potentially isn't necessary, and even worse, may prevent huge steps forward in use of human potential. Add to this the many cases in which exercise is not feasible or safe... (GPT mentions the work of Dr. Mark Tarnopolsky but I'm not familiar)

nradov 3y ago
What are the "many" cases in which exercise is not feasible or safe? Unless you're an ICU patient on life support or something you can always exercise more. You would have to get pretty far out on the exercise curve, like consistently over 30 hours per week, before safety starts to become a concern. And as for focus stealing it taxing other systems of attention, that's just bullshit. You don't know what you're talking about. A rigorous exercise program actually enhances your ability to focus. Dr. Mark Tarnopolsky is a competitive athlete who exercises a lot and also sells his own line of nutritional supplements. I think he would be the first to tell you that it's always going to be exercise, that's just what it takes. Drugs and nutritional supplements can help a little, especially for people with some underlying pathology, but they will never substitute for frequent hard exercise.
- themodelplumber 3y ago
  Sorry, it doesn't sound like you have much experience with the topic of needing to not exercise. Can't be much simpler put than that. It's unfortunate that you've conflated this with what seems to be a passionate relationship with pro-exercise philosophies. Which is really out of scope. The list of reasons why exercise may not be feasible is a really, really long one. Just because you can't think of it doesn't mean _anybody_ owes you an answer, particularly not when you throw around those accusatory beauty words like "bullshit". Seriously, that's the best you can do here? You are out of your depth and just raging about it, is how that looks. Focus stealing means you must _always_ focus on the exercise to some degree, so something else loses that focus. Extended focus away from a process that requires energy is de facto energy loss. So, some processes will lose energy when exercise is performed. Simple logic. Safety as a concern is _never_ bound solely to hours spent exercising--this should be obvious on its face. Nobody's threatening to take your passion away, you can still feel free to rage against the perceived lazy people, etc. But come on. You owe the whole world better here in lowering the discourse to this my-horse-sense-must-apply level.

nradov 3y ago

You're not going to find a magic pill that allows you to get away with being lazy. Whether you like to exercise or not is irrelevant. Embrace the suck.

pyridines 3y ago
There isn't one now, fine. But why shouldn't we be trying to invent one?
- nradov 3y ago
  You're welcome to try. If you succeed even partially then you'll be a billionaire. But these are complex biological systems and it's a tremendously difficult problem. I guarantee you that within our lifetimes we won't see a safe and effective drug that produces health benefits equivalent to frequent hard exercise. Many of those benefits come from the physical motion which helps to keep blood and lymph circulating normally so I can't see any way to put that in a pill.
amrocha 3y ago
That's the way to make sure you're unhappy. Exercise, and life, should never be about "embracing the suck". Finding ways to exercise that you enjoy and that can fit in your schedule makes it a default state rather than something you avoid.
- nradov 3y ago
  No, you're just completely wrong. That doesn't make people unhappy. Where did you come up with such a ridiculous notion? Do you lack experience in the real world? Have you never played competitive sports?
  - amrocha 3y ago
    Idk I think I'm completely right, exercise is supposed to be fun and trying to willpower your way through something you hate is a surefire way to be unhappy