8 ms·

Some even upload all their conversations and confidential internal documents to Microsoft 365!

belorn 4y ago
Which works perfectly fine until someone leaks the fact that NSA have full access to those documents, and occasionally will provide help to a few US companies that are seen as important to the nation.
- datadata 4y ago
  Do you have any example of your claim about providing help?
  - saiya-jin 4y ago
    This has been valid even decades before internet took over the world, I recall quite a few articles listed well known cases some years ago. Sure it wont push for some small startup but big corporations, sales of commercial planes, military equipment contracts and similar stuff for billions and more? CIA/NSA would be failing at its core real mission if they didnt help US interests when they see an opportunity. And with us-based cloud they dont need to hack anything remote, just fill another form and go again in. Makes me think, having strong privacy laws like ie in Swtzerland is a massive win for given country and its citizens in long term.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
  - croes 4y ago
    They did in the past why not now? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON#Concerns https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON#Concerns
  - shubb 4y ago
    Siemens and some other German majors claimed the NSA stole thier trade secrets related to wind turbines and gave them up some American companies. I think they claimed it was done via wire tap. I'm not sure if this claim was ever validated but it seems wild those fairly boring companies would come out with it over nothing, whereas it is related to of the US services stated mission. US government access to thier companies customers files has been a compliance issue in Europe for a while because it is hard to claim GDPR compliance if your vendor might be required to leak user data outside the judicial system. This is why privacy shield treaty was needed.
  - lyu07282 4y ago
    It is hopelessly naive to question this, however some random documented examples in recent times: The NSA got the german BND to spy on european company Airbus. [1] Then there was the Snowden leaks that revealed for example that the NSA was spying on an Brazilian oil company. [2] Then there is the well known case of Shell infiltrating the Nigerian government who then asked the US to spy for them on rival company Gazprom, which was revealed by the diplomatic cable leaks. [3] [1] https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-32542140 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-32542140 [2] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/09/nsa-spying-brazil-oil-petrobras https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/09/nsa-spying-bra... [3] https://www.theguardian.com/business/2010/dec/08/wikileaks-cables-shell-nigeria-spying https://www.theguardian.com/business/2010/dec/08/wikileaks-c...
- rs999gti 4y ago
  Even if you do O365 with EU hosted instances?
  - cute_boi 4y ago
    Obviously Yes.
  - sebzim4500 4y ago
    No, the US government is well known for following the letter of the law when it comes to domestic and international spying.
ChuckNorris89 4y ago
Some people upload their entire private lives, personal and family photos to iCloud. Several celebrities were target of iCloud leaks and their nudes ended up into 'the fappening'. Microsoft so far hasn't been hacked.
- artificial 4y ago
  Wonder what the searches reveal about someone? What's worse: search history or DNS logs? I guess it's pretty moot if it's all going to the googs with their DNS and Website Analytics + Ad networks.
- gumballindie 4y ago
  There is a difference between me choosing where i upload my own data vs a bank worker uploading sensitive data all over the web. There are contractual agreements at least in the uk that customer data would not be sent or stored in the us for instance.
- croes 4y ago
  >Microsoft so far hasn't been hacked. How do you know?
  - ChuckNorris89 4y ago
    Any hacker group would love to boost about it for the street cred or try to monetize it if they ever did, or there would be at least some chatter on the darknet about it which would be reported on in the media anyway. Nation states wouldn't, but it's safe to assume powerful nation states are already in every cloud provider, at least the US glowy boys anyway according to Snowden.
    - xdavidliu 4y ago
      > Any hacker group would love to boost about it for the street cred or try to monetize it if they ever did, or there would be at least some chatter on the darknet about it which would be reported on in the media anyway. And you are sure no hacker group has boasted, anywhere on the darknet, about hacking Microsoft? And even if that were true, you take that as strong evidence that Microsoft has not been hacked?
amelius 4y ago
Some even upload their credit card numbers to Amazon.
- DANmode 4y ago
  Security and privacy are different things.
downWidOutaFite 4y ago
And to Google and Amazon and GitHub and Slack and 100 other SaaSs. Not sure why openai is supposed to be more of a concern.
- TonyTrapp 4y ago
  Because whatever you send to ChatGPT may be future training data for their AI model. Mixing up your data with other customer's data is not really part of Slack's business (yet?).
  - vntok 4y ago
    You can opt out. See https://help.openai.com/en/articles/5722486-how-your-data-is-used-to-improve-model-performance https://help.openai.com/en/articles/5722486-how-your-data-is... > When you use our non-API consumer services ChatGPT or DALL-E, we may use the data you provide us to improve our models. You can switch off training in ChatGPT settings (under Data Controls) to turn off training for any conversations created while training is disabled or you can submit this form. Once you opt out, new conversations will not be used to train our models.
    - wrs 4y ago
      They just added the opt-out last week. I think they removed restrictions on using the output as well, but I haven’t gone back to look for details.
  - speedgoose 4y ago
    True, but ChatGPT on Azure OpenAI never did: https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/legal/cognitive-services/openai/data-privacy https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/legal/cognitive-services/o...
- Bhilai 4y ago
  Not all SaaS companies have security postures equivalent to Amazon/Google/Github/MS. Most SaaS have a fraction of a budget as compared tech giants to deal with security and privacy regulations.

Which works perfectly fine until someone leaks the fact that NSA have full access to those documents, and occasionally will provide help to a few US companies that are seen as important to the nation.

datadata 4y ago
Do you have any example of your claim about providing help?
- saiya-jin 4y ago
  This has been valid even decades before internet took over the world, I recall quite a few articles listed well known cases some years ago. Sure it wont push for some small startup but big corporations, sales of commercial planes, military equipment contracts and similar stuff for billions and more? CIA/NSA would be failing at its core real mission if they didnt help US interests when they see an opportunity. And with us-based cloud they dont need to hack anything remote, just fill another form and go again in. Makes me think, having strong privacy laws like ie in Swtzerland is a massive win for given country and its citizens in long term.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- croes 4y ago
  They did in the past why not now? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON#Concerns https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON#Concerns
- shubb 4y ago
  Siemens and some other German majors claimed the NSA stole thier trade secrets related to wind turbines and gave them up some American companies. I think they claimed it was done via wire tap. I'm not sure if this claim was ever validated but it seems wild those fairly boring companies would come out with it over nothing, whereas it is related to of the US services stated mission. US government access to thier companies customers files has been a compliance issue in Europe for a while because it is hard to claim GDPR compliance if your vendor might be required to leak user data outside the judicial system. This is why privacy shield treaty was needed.
- lyu07282 4y ago
  It is hopelessly naive to question this, however some random documented examples in recent times: The NSA got the german BND to spy on european company Airbus. [1] Then there was the Snowden leaks that revealed for example that the NSA was spying on an Brazilian oil company. [2] Then there is the well known case of Shell infiltrating the Nigerian government who then asked the US to spy for them on rival company Gazprom, which was revealed by the diplomatic cable leaks. [3] [1] https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-32542140 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-32542140 [2] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/09/nsa-spying-brazil-oil-petrobras https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/09/nsa-spying-bra... [3] https://www.theguardian.com/business/2010/dec/08/wikileaks-cables-shell-nigeria-spying https://www.theguardian.com/business/2010/dec/08/wikileaks-c...
rs999gti 4y ago
Even if you do O365 with EU hosted instances?
- cute_boi 4y ago
  Obviously Yes.
- sebzim4500 4y ago
  No, the US government is well known for following the letter of the law when it comes to domestic and international spying.

ChuckNorris89 4y ago

Some people upload their entire private lives, personal and family photos to iCloud. Several celebrities were target of iCloud leaks and their nudes ended up into 'the fappening'. Microsoft so far hasn't been hacked.

artificial 4y ago
Wonder what the searches reveal about someone? What's worse: search history or DNS logs? I guess it's pretty moot if it's all going to the googs with their DNS and Website Analytics + Ad networks.
gumballindie 4y ago
There is a difference between me choosing where i upload my own data vs a bank worker uploading sensitive data all over the web. There are contractual agreements at least in the uk that customer data would not be sent or stored in the us for instance.
croes 4y ago
>Microsoft so far hasn't been hacked. How do you know?
- ChuckNorris89 4y ago
  Any hacker group would love to boost about it for the street cred or try to monetize it if they ever did, or there would be at least some chatter on the darknet about it which would be reported on in the media anyway. Nation states wouldn't, but it's safe to assume powerful nation states are already in every cloud provider, at least the US glowy boys anyway according to Snowden.
  - xdavidliu 4y ago
    > Any hacker group would love to boost about it for the street cred or try to monetize it if they ever did, or there would be at least some chatter on the darknet about it which would be reported on in the media anyway. And you are sure no hacker group has boasted, anywhere on the darknet, about hacking Microsoft? And even if that were true, you take that as strong evidence that Microsoft has not been hacked?

amelius 4y ago

Some even upload their credit card numbers to Amazon.

DANmode 4y ago
Security and privacy are different things.

downWidOutaFite 4y ago

And to Google and Amazon and GitHub and Slack and 100 other SaaSs. Not sure why openai is supposed to be more of a concern.

TonyTrapp 4y ago
Because whatever you send to ChatGPT may be future training data for their AI model. Mixing up your data with other customer's data is not really part of Slack's business (yet?).
- vntok 4y ago
  You can opt out. See https://help.openai.com/en/articles/5722486-how-your-data-is-used-to-improve-model-performance https://help.openai.com/en/articles/5722486-how-your-data-is... > When you use our non-API consumer services ChatGPT or DALL-E, we may use the data you provide us to improve our models. You can switch off training in ChatGPT settings (under Data Controls) to turn off training for any conversations created while training is disabled or you can submit this form. Once you opt out, new conversations will not be used to train our models.
  - wrs 4y ago
    They just added the opt-out last week. I think they removed restrictions on using the output as well, but I haven’t gone back to look for details.
- speedgoose 4y ago
  True, but ChatGPT on Azure OpenAI never did: https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/legal/cognitive-services/openai/data-privacy https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/legal/cognitive-services/o...
Bhilai 4y ago
Not all SaaS companies have security postures equivalent to Amazon/Google/Github/MS. Most SaaS have a fraction of a budget as compared tech giants to deal with security and privacy regulations.