14 ms·

Classic fountain pens

82 points by axiomdata316 3y ago

nunuvit 3y ago
For anyone with a budding or casual interest in fountain pens, the Lamy Safari is the way to go. They're plentiful, inexpensive, rugged, and have plenty of nibs, cartridges, and refillable cartridges to experiment with. Just pick your color and start using it to figure out what you value in a pen. Don't let the grip shape scare you off, you might like it more than you thought, but if not it won't ruin the value as an experimentation platform. Note that unlike a ballpoint you'll need to experiment to find the right combination of nibs, inks, and papers. Also check out the unrelated free Handwriting Repair pdf so you don't feel ashamed and disappointed in yourself every time you use the pen. Plus it'll turn the flat shape of the nib into an advantage. Edit: People seem to like the Pilots. I haven't tried them, but they seem to also be inexpensive and have good nib and ink options.
- falcolas 3y ago
  I'd go one step further and suggest a Pilot disposable fountain pen. Their nibs are remarkably good, and you're only out around $2 if you dislike them. And if you like them, well then, have fun with your new hobby!
  - kps 3y ago
    I second the recommendation to try Pilot first, though I haven't used any of their recent disposables. Pilot nibs are just remarkably consistently good. As a starter I'd suggest the Pilot Metropolitan with a medium nib (as Asian nibs tend to be a little finer than European nibs with the same designation) although my personal favourite ‘cheap’ pen (that is, in the Lamy Safari price range) is the old-style Prera (in the US, from JetPens).
    - haradion 3y ago
      I've got both a Metropolitan and a Prera, and I can second (third?) this recommendation. Fantastic pens.
  - nunuvit 3y ago
    True, I actually did that myself when I impulse bought one at an art supply store since it was at the checkout counter. It's a great way to find out if you're interested in experimenting with pens, or if you just want a no-fuss tool and have a passing curiosity in fountain pens. Do this before getting a non-disposable.
  - slowmovintarget 3y ago
    I was giving away Pilot Varsity pens (a.k.a. V-pens) to people around the office that were interested. Amazon sells them in boxes of 10, and yes they have a surprisingly good nib for such an inexpensive pen. They also have decent capacity, as the thing is basically a non-refillable ink tank with a novel felt feed (similar to what markers use). The next pen I recommend as a starter is usually the Pilot Metropolitan, or the TWSBI Eco for those who want to dive into bottled ink.
- rPlayer6554 3y ago
  The lamy safari is fantastic and only about $35. You can find a black one on Amazon for $20.
- e40 3y ago
  I saw the recommendation for the Lamy Safari in a lot of places. Just want to say I actually hated writing with it. Maybe I got a bad one, but I doubt it.
  - deleted 3y ago
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  - dwringer 3y ago
    I've had a few Safaris and they're easily among my favorites, but personally it was common to get misaligned nibs with them, or extreme variation between two different nibs of the same grind (so I don't think the problem of "getting a bad one" is as unlikely as portrayed). The alignment problem occurs with all brands to one degree or another IME, and it's worth learning to make adjustments using a loupe or macro camera for anyone who's interested in the hobby. There's also a widespread problem of counterfeit Lamy Safaris out there, which usually come in subtly different packaging and/or have subtly different markings on the pen body. These are widely considered to be inferior, and fairly common if ordering somewhere like Amazon.
    - etrautmann 3y ago
      This is fascinating to me, as someone naive to the hobby. Can you describe what you're looking for and what adjustments you'd make? Are there two halves of the nib that need to be at the right spacing and alignment for proper ink-wicking or something like that? Does that affect the smoothness of the interaction with the paper too? I routinely work under a high-magnification dissecting scope to build experimental equipment for neuroscience, but I never considered that people would be doing this to optimized their writing instruments.
      - dwringer 3y ago
        Pretty much all of what you wrote is a consideration, but everyone probably has their own preferences (and in some part it's affected by writing angle and penmanship habits). Certain nib styles are better suited to different ways of holding a pen. And there's a lot more to it, since different papers react in different ways to different nibs, and inks are another wide-ranging variable. I think many people get drawn into the hobby for the endless pursuit of matching pens, papers, and inks, or trying to optimize for various characteristics across different combinations of the above. Of course a lot of people don't bother and just find one that works well enough and leave it at that.
- dmpk2k 3y ago
  A big problem with Safaris is they dry out quickly. There are many great pen varieties nowadays, none of which have this common fountain-pen shortcoming. Safaris are suitable for people who write daily; others should look elsewhere.
  - throwaway2203 3y ago
    Do you have a recommendation?
    - dmpk2k 3y ago
      Three I know about are the TWSBI Eco and Diamond, and Pilot’s disposable Vpen. They’ve already been mentioned elsewhere in this thread. Beyond those, do research. Fountain pens drying out is a major problem that catches newcomers off-guard. When you can buy EnerGels for peanuts, fountain pen manufacturers really need to up their game to stay remotely competitive with other pen types. And many don’t.
      - quantgenius 3y ago
        You do need to cap fountain pens because the inks are water based. If you need to take quick notes and drying out is a problem because the pens are uncapped and capped a lot, get a Lamy 2000, vintage (not new) Parker 51 or a Pilot Vanishing Point. The first two have slip caps and hooded nibs so cap and uncap really quickly and don't dry out due to the hooded nib. The Vanishing Point also has a hooded nib but you click it like a ballpoint pen to expose and hide the nib. Also don't use quick drying inks. If drying out is a problem because you don't write frequently enough, there are two solutions. Solution 1: Buy a Platinum (Preppy for low end, or 3776 higher end). It has a really good cap. Both will take a long time to dry out. Or even better, write more frequently.
    - kps 3y ago
      Old Parker 51. (Emphatically, do not touch any current Parker.)
    - vgeek 3y ago
- stefanka 3y ago
  I got their „studio“ and it’s pretty decent for its price
- sbaiddn 3y ago
  The grip is the best part of the pen!
- BeetleB 3y ago
  I preferred the Pilot Metropolitan, with a Medium Nib (equivalent to Fine in Europe). It was my goto pen for a number of years, despite getting more expensive ones.
- taeric 3y ago
  I'm partial to the metropolitan pens. But, realistically, any pen is a fine starter nowadays. I am a huge fan of the larger nibs. I tried getting into calligraphy, but haven't managed the eye for it, yet. Tons and tons of fun, though.
- Al-Khwarizmi 3y ago
  In my view, Lamy Safari is way overrated. Don't get me wrong, it's far from bad, a pretty consistent pen for the price. But the ink dries fast-ish if you don't use it, and especially, the cartridges are proprietary so you're tied to the brand's cartridges and ink colors (there's a piston converter, but converters, meh). A Pilot Metropolitan is approximately the same price and at least in my view, it's better as it uses standard international cartridges. A TWSBI Eco is more expensive, but not by that much, and it's an absolute reliability monster.
  - nunuvit 3y ago
    Can you also use cartridges with the TWSBI Eco? A first pen should give you the option. I haven't tried the Pilots, but the standard cartridge could change my recommendation to them.
    - rbonvall 3y ago
      No, the TWSBI Eco can only be filled from a bottle. The TWSBI Swipe supports both cartridges and converters.
      - nunuvit 3y ago
        Thanks for confirming. You really need to try both to find what you like.
    - Al-Khwarizmi 3y ago
      No, the Eco can only be filled with a piston mechanism, and yes, you have a point. While I love piston fillers, it can be off-putting for a complete beginner, so maybe better as second pen than as first :) The Pilot Metropolitan is great as first pen, IMO.
  - hammyhavoc 3y ago
    Who downvoted you? It's a valid perspective.
  - throwanem 3y ago
- deleted 3y ago
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- waynesonfire 3y ago
  Agreed, love the Lamy Safari. I got the Al Star to up-scale it a bit. And, then a gold-nib later. But, honestly, like the steel more! I also tried the Pilot Metropolitan, for some reason this awful pen is recommended as an alternative to the Lamy. Doesn't even compare, got rid of it fairly quickly. The ridge along the grip was very uncomfortable for me.
  - nunuvit 3y ago
    The Lamy grips are pretty controversial too. It looks like there are a few other pens that use the same nib and feed as the Metro. Do any of them lack that ridge?
- Alifatisk 3y ago
  > Also check out the unrelated free Handwriting Repair pdf Link?
  - deleted 3y ago
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    - deleted 3y ago
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  - nordsieck 3y ago
    I assume your parent is referring to this: https://penvibe.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/Handwriting-Repair-Guidebook.pdf https://penvibe.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/Handwriting-R...
    - nunuvit 3y ago
      Yup, that's a copy of part of it.
  - WillAdams 3y ago
    I suspect it would be something by Kate Gladstone: https://handwritingrepair.info https://handwritingrepair.info
    - nunuvit 3y ago
      Nope
- jimmyjazz14 3y ago
  I have a number of fountain pens but the one I keep coming back to is the Pilot Kakuno, they are super cheap but they just feel so good in hand especially for sketching and drawing.
  - slowmovintarget 3y ago
    Pilot somehow pulls off miracles with their steel nibs. The Kakuno has the same nib as the Metropolitan or the Explorer, and they're great. Even better, the Kakuno can (just barely) fit the CON-70 converter for a nice big ink reservoir instead of the wee CON-40. Granted, refilling cartridges with bottled ink and blunt syringes works really well, too.
  - quantgenius 3y ago
    Kakunos are awesome. Really good nibs. Awesome value for money.
- frereubu 3y ago
  The problem I have with the Safari is that I don't write much and they dry out before I use them much. My Kaweco Sport lasts for ages, and I think it's to do with the fit of the screw top compared to the relatively loose clicking mechanism of the Safari cap.
  - trilobyte 3y ago
    I use a refillable cartridge on my pens and have dialed in about how much ink I should load at any given point in time based on my writing habits. It might help to play around with that.
nimbius 3y ago
For those of us that arent raking in the FAANG dosh for a 3 figure pen, give TWSBI a try. theyre just as good. https://www.twsbi.com/ https://www.twsbi.com/
- disqard 3y ago
  I'll second this recommendation! The TWSBI Eco is a beautiful, robust, and dependable pen.
- cik 3y ago
  I have a lot of fountain pens, some very high end, some cheap garbage. The TWSBI Echo is my favourite pen to write with. The nib is dreamy. Pare that with J.Herbin ink and it's the best writing experience I've ever had.
- deleted 3y ago
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- now__what 3y ago
  Lamy Safari has been my go-to for years, but for anyone starting out I recommend the TWSBI Eco. Only downside imo is inability to easily swap out nibs in a TWSBI.
- deleted 3y ago
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- eschneider 3y ago
  The TWSBI pens definitely hit a sweet spot for me as well.
- ssnistfajen 3y ago
  TWSBI leans towards the thicker side for me personally, but it's a great workhorse pen for anyone who uses fountain pens daily on real writing tasks. TWSBI Eco's ink reservoir size and ease-of-use is simply unrivalled among competitors in the same price range.
ziml77 3y ago
I got into fountain pens for a while. One big problem with them is that you really need paper that's designed for them. A lot of common paper ends up wicking out the ink way too fast. But they are still pretty cool writing implements. It's easy to change the nibs in them so I would recommend trying out a few different sizes and styles to find one that suits you. It's a fun experience even if ballpoint pens are overall more practical.
- dan-robertson 3y ago
  I always got on fine with laser printer paper. But it was never really a hobby – my school required them at one point and at another my parents thought it would help my handwriting. If you have a bunch of school kids made to use fountain pens, they aren’t going to be fussing about paper quality; they’ll just use what they have and be fine with it. I think you don’t really need certain types of paper. People just like throwing money at the bits of their hobby that are easy to throw money at.
  - BeetleB 3y ago
    In my experience, most laser printer papers feather heavily with fountain pen ink. I buy the Target brand ones, and they handle FP ink decently well. But yes - you definitely need paper that handles the ink well. Most notebooks sold in regular American stores do not. If your city has a Kinokuniya[1] store, likely most stationery sold there will handle it well as fountain pens are still used a lot in Japan. [1] https://usa.kinokuniya.com/ https://usa.kinokuniya.com/
    - ziml77 3y ago
      > fountain pens are still used a lot in Japan I ended up getting a Japanese notebook for that reason. I think the one I got may still have been a step up in quality from what's standard there, but it was a leap up from the generic US notebook I had been trying to use.
  - waynesonfire 3y ago
    It's been a pleasure writing on the HP Printer Paper Premium 32 lb paper.
kwhitefoot 3y ago
How can one list classic fountain pens without including Platignum? They are actually affordable as well. https://www.hamiltonpens.com/collections/platignum/products/platignum-studio-fountain-pen-blue https://www.hamiltonpens.com/collections/platignum/products/...
Apreche 3y ago
For most of my life I hated fountain pens. It turns out that was because the ones I tried were cheap, bad, and/or broken. I gave them one more shot. Again, a lot of them I did not like, but the Platinum Preppy was excellent. I wanted to get another one with a finer tip, but they were out of stock. In the meantime I tried some others, and found the Lamy to be just as good, if not better. Just for the sake of convenience I went all in on Lamy and have no regrets. Wish I could have had pens like these back in the day when I was writing more and typing less.
- Alifatisk 3y ago
  I have Platinum Preppy right know (it’s my first fountain pen). My goal is to write beautifully in calligraphy. Which pen would you recommend?
  - dbtc 3y ago
    If possible, get to a store where you can try a bunch and see for yourself.
  - Ancapistani 3y ago
    What kind of calligraphy? For “pointed pen”, I love my Pilot Falcon. It’s got the most “flex” of any modern fountain pen I own - I own way, way too many fountain pens. I haven’t inventoried them in a couple of years, but I had >200 at the time.
amelius 3y ago
Has anyone here improved their handwriting later in life? How much practice did it take?
- rbonvall 3y ago
  You can improve just by learning the right technique (how to hold the pen, how to write by moving the arm rather than the wrist) and learning the proper letter shapes. That won't take more than a couple of hours, and from then on you just get practice by applying what you learnt whenever you have to write something down.
- wise0wl 3y ago
  I have improved my handwriting. It took a few months of consistent journaling with a fountain pen to find the "font" that worked for me. Now, I have different writing styles depending on how much time I can take. I use a broad nib for quick note taking because I don't have time to make it look "good", and a fine flex nib for when I'm journaling which I use to flourish things a bit.
- Alifatisk 3y ago
  Yes, I bought a cheap fountain pen together with a book I could improve my writing on.
- disqard 3y ago
  Speaking only for myself, it took a few months of regular writing. Like (perhaps) others, I had been forced to use them in grade school -- we were told that "it would improve our handwriting". It laid a foundation for fluency in cursive, but my actual handwriting was terrible. However, when I came back to fountain pens (after a couple of decades), it was relatively easy to improve my script to where I'm happy with it. Having the "cursive" foundation probably helped a ton.
bambax 3y ago
I write everyday with a Waterman Expert. They're a little expensive (usually less than EUR100) but nothing compared to Montblanc, and very pleasant and resilient. At some point I designed a blotter holder made of a plaque of stainless steel and a sheet of plexiglass, and hand-made blotter paper. I thought it was quite elegant [0] but I couldn't sell more than a couple of them, and now the inventory lingers in my garage ;-( [0] The page still exists on https://drop.com/buy/medusis-rocker-blotter https://drop.com/buy/medusis-rocker-blotter, although you can't order them from there anymore.
falcolas 3y ago
Another option are dip pens. They do not offer the same writing time as a regular fountain pen, but they are easier to clean and so let you experiment with exotic inks (such as those with particulate in them). I'm particularly fond of glass dip pens, as they offer a steady flow and you can get 2-3 lines of text out before you need to re-dip. They're also absurdly easy to clean, as they don't have any "pinch" points which can hide ink from you. On the flip side, they basically have one "width", which is about a 0.8mm line for mine. It's also glass, with everything that entails.
foobarian 3y ago
What advantages do fountain pens still have over modern gel ballpoints? I like the whole experience of fountain pens, how nice they look and the 'old-school' aspect, but sadly I don't feel they are practical any more.
- pizlonator 3y ago
  Hard to say if this is objective or not, but here goes… I find that I write faster with a good, reliable fountain pen (like a Sailor) than I do with a ballpoint, gel, rollerball, or anything else I’ve tried. It’s my go-to for fast note taking. On the other hand, there are a lot of cool and fancy fountain pens that are net slower to write with due to unreliability.
- cfiggers 3y ago
  The advantages are all minor—mostly it's an aesthetic preference rather than a practical one. But there are a few small things: - The mechanism of a fountain pen relies on capillary action and gravity rather than the mechanical rolling action of a ballpoint. This means you don't have to press the point down into the paper almost at all in order to write. This reduces writing fatigue, and can even make writing possible for folks with carpal tunnel or other sources of wrist pain (like healing wrist fractures or other issues). - Cursive was developed before ballpoints were common. This means that there's a bunch of subtle ways that most western cursive systems are optimized for the low-friction, gliding style of writing with a fixed tip and liquid ink rather than the constant pressure style of writing needed for ballpoints. It's actually less work and strain with a ballpoint NOT to join all your letters together. With a pen that uses liquid ink, it suddenly makes sense why not picking the point up from the page saves effort. - Fountain pens (can) use less disposable plastic than ballpoints, especially if you're a heavy journaler. A glass bottle of liquid ink will last months or years and there's no plastic inserts or disposable tips to be thrown away. So if you care about that sort of thing, a little bit less waste is an objective advantage. - Bottles of ink are cheaper per page written than most ballpoint refills. But, this is an invisible benefit to most because depending on how far you get into the hobby you'll inevitably end up spending much more on pens and paper than you would've ever spent on ballpoint refills. - The ink choices are way more diverse and interesting with fountain pens than with ballpoints. There's many color options available, and some inks have special properties, like drying with fun reflective spots wherever the ink pools or containing microscopic glitter particles to make your writing sparkly. - Fountain pens, depending on the specific design, are better suited for certain styles of calligraphy than most ballpoint pens are. But most people who get into fountain pens and ink do so because of aesthetics, not anything objectively superior.
pizlonator 3y ago
They forgot about the Sailor 1911
- Ancapistani 3y ago
  They missed a lot of excellent pens, and included some boutique makers - including a couple who, from the photos, use very cheap nibs while charging a premium price.
alienreborn 3y ago
Ten cheap yet great fountain pens from my experience: - Platinum Preppy/Prefounte/Plasir ($3-$20) - TWSBI ECO ($30-$50) - Pilot Metro/Cavalier ($20-$50) Cheap and OK pens (I found these better for drawing than writing): - Lamy Safari/Al-Star ($20-$50) - Kaweco Sport Classic ($20 -- ) 'Affordable' Gold Nib pens (These aren't necessarily 'better' but writing experience is different(softer feel) which some people prefer) - Pilot Elite 95S ($80-$100) - Pilot Decimo/Capless ($115-$160) All prices are from online stores available in US.
- MezzoDelCammin 3y ago
  To this I'd add: For the affordable gold nibs, "Lamy 2000" is generally the biggest competitor to Pilot Capless / Vanishing point. Same price, very similar nib quality, different esthetics / use case. For the cheap, the aliexpress classics "Jinhao x750" is another gateway drug. It's under $10 and gives an almost infinite ability for tinkering further down the line when the fountain pen bug bites (#6 size nibs that are easy to find / replace and standard cartridge / converter size for easy ink availability).
chad_strategic 3y ago
I have a Cross fountain pen, not sure what the model is, I'm not even sure how great it is or isn't. However I have had it at least since high school and that is over 30 years ago... Only have changed the nib and it still writes great.
rg111 3y ago
As a fountain pen enthusiast who uses fountain pens exclusively, this list surprises me. What does this author want to cover? Good looking expensive stuff? Just buy a Pilot Metropolitan or a Lamy Safari. Or even a Platinum Preppy. These pens are extremely cheap. And beyond these pens, if you notice any improvement in smoothness and comfort of writing, I would throw that in the margin of error. People have their reasons to buy more expensive pens. But if smoothness, comfort are your goal, then you can buy what I said. Metal-body Lamys and Pilots are also generational wealth. You can hand over one to your daughter after you write 40 years with it. My favorite fountain pen so far is: Pilot Custom 823. That's a bit expensive. But I used Metropolitan, Preppy, and Safari for close to a decade. And I had only these pens. Nothing else.
spyrefused 3y ago
For a article on classic pens I miss something from Kaweco or Lamy as entry level, for example, or some of the classic pens from japanese brands like Pilot or Sailor.
- MezzoDelCammin 3y ago
  oh, IMO the answer to what this article is missing is easy:"almost everything". To me it looks like some sort of product placement marketing fluff with "Montblanc" thrown in just to give it a measure of plausible deniability.
sbaiddn 3y ago
For a beginner, its hard to improve on the "pilot penenship" Its only flaw, in my opinion, is its lack of a clip
SlickStef11 3y ago
Man I love to see posts like this. I didn't know you nerds like Fountain pens as well. just bought a Visconti pen for the first time and Love it. Pricy, but has a great history. Mine is the emerald one.
quantgenius 3y ago
This list is certainly not classic fountain pens. They are mostly machined pens made by small batch producers with generic nibs and two with somewhat "different" nibs I wouldn't normally suggest most people get. These are pretty good pens but not what I would get as a first pen. Here are the pens I would suggest you consider if you don't know a lot about fountain pens. If you are a fountain pen collector, I'm mostly ignoring a number of European brands who make great pens but have nib quality control from hell which are fine if you know fountain pens and how to adjust nibs etc but not if you are a beginner. Budget under 40 bucks: 1) Lamy Safari: The grip section is triangular to support the traditional writing grip. It's one of the choices middle schoolers are require to use in certain European countries. If you have a traditional grip and don't have huge hands you will likely like it. If you don't, stay away. Lamy sometimes has quality control issues on it's inexpensive nibs but not as many as other European brands in my experience. 2) Pilot Metropolitan: Pilot has a reputation of really good quality control on what are very high quality nibs. The 20 dollar Pilot Metropolitan is no exception. Amazing writing experience for the money. Probably the best steel nibs you can buy. Competitive with many pens that cost over 100 dollars. 3) TWSBI Eco: Piston filler pen so you don't need a cartridge or converter. The pen is a demonstrator so you can see how it works. Comes in lots of cute colors. Uses Jowo nibs so the nibs are pretty good. Not quite as good as Pilot nibs. I suggest most people skip the next level up in price. You don't get much more for the money and you are probably better off saving for the next level up. Next level up from that. You usually get gold nibs at this level. 1) Lamy 2000: In permanent collection of the Museum of Modern Art. Design hasn't changed since the 1960s and is timeless. It's designed for people who know how to use fountain pens, the right amount of pressure, the right grip and who don't rotate the pen, the aforementioned kids in the European school who grew up on a Lamy ABC and then the Safari and so on. It's absolutely awesome but not recommended as your first fountain pen if you've never used one before. It's different from other pens so if you get it, I suggest you try it for a few weeks if you don't love it. I've known more than one person go from "I hate it" to "It's my favorite pen" as they learn how to use it. Absolutely beautiful and very understated pen. Amazing nibs that have a feel unlike any other. Slip cap so great for short notes. 2) Pilot Vanishing Point: Clicks to expose and hide the nib. No cap. So feels like a ball point. Nib is long and narrow so slightly bouncy. Really nice writing experience. There is clip near where your grip goes so some people won't like that. Very comfortable if you hold it with a traditional grip. Right up there with the Lamy 2000. 3) Platinum 3776: Really nice nib. Designed to give you feedback as you write so you have more control. It's very smooth but has feedback. Having the extra control is really nice if you write a lot of mathematical notation. 4) Sailor Pro Gear Slim or Sailor 1911 (not 1911L which is more expensive). Amazing nibs. The non slim versions are described below. These pens and nibs are a bit smaller, stiffer and very good but not as good as the large versions. Note that the Pro Gear Slim and Sailor 1911 (not 1911L), may be too small if you have large hands. Many of my female friends find these very comfortable. If you are all about the nib, Sailor probably makes the best nibs in the world today. Another level up: 1) Pilot Custom 823. Vacuum Filler. Amazing nib. Used by Neil Gaiman and other famous authors who like writing the first draft of their novels with a fountain pen. Used by other famous people as a signature pen. These pens are wet, i.e. put out a lot of ink. If you haven't graduated to fountain pen friendly paper, get a fine nib or maybe skip it for one of the others. 2) Platinum President. Like the Platinum 3776. More refined nib. Slightly thicker grip. Often available very cheaply on Amazon. Not very wet so very serviceable on cheap paper with cheap paper friendly ink. 3) Sailor 1911L or Sailor Pro Gear (not the slim version). Note: The slim versions are also very good but not quite as good. Sailor is thought to make the best nibs in the world. Absolutely amazing writing experience. Writing with a Sailor nib feels sort of like writing with a pencil. It's very smooth but not glass like. There is just enough control. Probably my favorite nibs. Not very wet so great for cheap paper. If you don't write on high quality paper, and I mean genuinely high quality paper, like Rhodia, Tomoe River, Clairefontaine etc. as opposed to overpriced junk like Moleskine, get a fine nib in anything but a Sailor or Platinum. You can get a medium nib Sailor or Platinum since their nibs run narrower. You should also limit yourself to a cheap paper compatible ink. You could try Platinum dye-based Blue Black, Diamine Registrar's Blue Black, Sailor Kiwa Giro, Sailor Seiboku or Sailor Souboku etc. You could get also get Noodler's Black. However, Noodler's hand mixes inks and the quality control is off a lot of the time. Nathan Tardiff's (owner and sole employee of Noodler's) political statements may not be compatible with a lot of the crowd on HN either. If you go with Noodler's, get regular Noodler's Black, do not get X-Feather. (edited: formatting and minor changes for clarity)
MezzoDelCammin 3y ago
One thing that hasn't been mentioned so far. We've seen comments that "race to the bottom" (Lamy Safari, Pilot Preppy, ...), or that aim for "timeless classics" (basically any gold nib - Sailor 1911, Pilot Falcon, ~$150+ pens). There's a third way though. The "actual piece of history". In my opinion, no pen is better for this than a Parker 51. This for me is the embodiment (and a parent of) "the consumer fountain pen". Seen and used everywhere from 1940s to about 1960s. The best part - these can now be had for ~$100 and a good portion of them still works beautifully to this day. With minimal maintenance (cleaning, sometimes slight nib polishing to remove the flat spots that come from long time use by their previous owners) one can get a working Parker 51 for under $60. The best part - these pens can go neck to neck with a lot of modern $150+ pieces. All the while most of these pens are older than majority of HN users. Heck, having a small collection myself, most of my Parker 51s are older than my parents.
- quantgenius 3y ago
  Totally agree. Properly restored vintage pens are absolutely awesome. You don't have to go as high end as a vintage Parker 51. Try an Esterbrook. They were the BIC of their day and are amazing. Very important warning regarding Parker 51s or any modern Parker. Do not buy the modern Parker 51!! The brand Parker is now owned by a company that is choosing to take advantage of people who remember the Parker brand and foisting total garbage on them.
  - nolan879 3y ago
    I love my Esterbrooks, I was gifted a green model J many years ago, and I use it frequently at home. I recently purchased an SJ from an antiques market, and revived it with a new ink sac ($20 all in), this pen now lives on my desk at work. I prefer their lighter weight to the Pilot Metropolitans.
- cge 3y ago
  I'd agree. This article was not at all what I assumed it would be about: it is primarily a listing of boutique manufacturer pens that are entirely modern and not at all classic in mentality. They fit the standard "limited edition, barrel-design-focused, standard section and cartridge+converter, generic nib" product design and business model that I think is intrinsically linked to the move of fountain pens to being marketed as mostly status items. There are great, actually classic pens, and being from a time when they were meant to be used, they can be far more interesting. Parker 51s are ubiquitous and reliable, and vacuum fillers in general seem significantly better than modern cartridge and converter pens. For mid century technically-interesting pens, I'm fond of Sheaffer snorkel fillers, where the pen can be quickly refilled without the nib ever touching ink and changing the line thickness or becoming messy. Even earlier, Waterman and other pens with fine, flexible nibs offer nib styles that range from very difficult to impossible to get in modern pens.
jypepin 3y ago
I'm surprised they don't mention Parker. At school in France in the 90s, that was the true classic.
- kps 3y ago
  Parker was purchased by Newell Rubbermaid, and — as with so many other old famous brands — their current products are junk.
liendolucas 3y ago
I own a Pilot birdie which is extremely small but beautiful fountain pen. It resembles a tiny stainless steel rod. It was part of the "Birdie" collection which came also with a ball pen and mechanical pencil. Unfortunately as all good things they don't seem to manufacture them anymore. I started using it some time ago because I'm tired to buy plastic pens, also the its stroke is much better than anything else I've used so far. Fountain pens are a world.
Bud 3y ago
I have a Montblanc I got in the 80s. Still a pleasure to use. Great investment. For those seeking something more affordable, the Kaweco Sport is a great pen, great price, well worth the money, and a real pleasure. Ink cartridges are cheap, too.
tristor 3y ago
I collect fountain pens (and other types of pens) and paper/stationary. I have been writing extensively by hand for many many years. While it is not my overall favorite, I think it's important for folks to know that from a writing quality and feel perspective that modern low-cost pens are actually /very/ good, and are the way to go. The Platinum Preppy is every bit as good as the majority of classic fountain pens, and better than many, very few are better, and you can buy it for under $20 basically anywhere. The most important thing for writing with a fountain pen and having a good experience is actually the INK, not the pen, because the ink determines the flow, forgiveness, and the time to dry (which prevents smudging). Additionally, paper has a huge influence. I'd recommend investing in good quality paper with cotton in their mix. If you don't want to spend a lot but get good quality mass-produced stationary, G. Lalo and Clairefontaine are both good brands to buy.
- bborud 3y ago
  I've found that with regard to ink, there is no one size fits all solution. Some pens work with fast-flowing inks, other pens don't work as well. So there is some amount of trial and error that goes into pairing pen with ink.
  - tristor 3y ago
    This is very true, the pen, ink, and paper work together to form a system. They all have some effect on all of the variables such as flow, ease of movement, drying time, etc. For the most part modern ink are better in every aspect compared to classic inks.
    - bborud 3y ago
      I'm not sure I understand the difference between modern and classic inks. Is there a definition somewhere? (I have 20-25 ink bottles of ink and by trial and error I've roughly figured out what ink works in what pen. I probably should know more about inks given that I write a lot, but I haven't made any systematic approach to figuring this out :-))
jurassicfoxy 3y ago
Are fountain pens exclusively a right-handed pleasure? I've tried, and the smudging has been an insurmountable obstacle. I would love to hear from some fellow lefties. I love pens, ink, and paper, but I feel cursed.
- fowtowmowcow 3y ago
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eiZ9ifo4_4U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eiZ9ifo4_4U There seems to be a variety of suggestions and advice on using pens left handed on youtube.
- Symbiote 3y ago
  I think left-handed people rotate the paper slightly clockwise.
- ben7799 3y ago
  It mostly seems like they suck for us lefties and the articles about how to use them are just attempts to sell more fountain pens to lefties. The main point of superiority for fountain pens is if you are the person selling fountain pens. A lot of ballpoints absolutely suck for lefties too, but you can get good ballpoints that work perfect for left handed writing for 30x-100x less than the fountain pens in the article. And not have to jump through hoops or go through any hassle to get them to work.
- oriolid 3y ago
  I'm left-handed and the basic Platinum Preppy and the blue ink that comes with it by default work great for me. My hand brushes over the text but the ink dries so fast it's not a problem. Some fancier pens with flexible nib that gives more control over line width really need that you don't push against the grain and are impossible to write with left hand.
- Ancapistani 3y ago
  There are fast-drying inks that are suitable for lefties. Noodler’s Q-E’ternity comes to mind.
- wrp 3y ago
vr46 3y ago
This “article” is total “churnalism”, just marketing bunk with absolutely no content. Obviously I am aware what Wallpaper* is, which is mainly a conduit to help people spend their money as fast as possible like Brewster’s Millions, but this article on HN is surely misdirected.
- sn41 3y ago
  Thank you for a delightful term - churnalism : I had never heard that before!!
- slowmovintarget 3y ago
  Agreed. Most of those listings aren't even close to being classics. For example, The Monoc Nib is very new. It didn't exist a few scant months ago. While I hope Ian Schon succeeds and it does become considered a classic, a single-piece titanium nib unit that encloses an Ultem feed is not a typical fountain pen design. (Very cool, just not classic yet... give it 20 years). The Montblanc, and maybe the Conway Stewart may be the only classic brands there.
  - vr46 3y ago
    The HN comment thread - once again - provides more entertainment and enlightenment than the original post :) There’s some innovative features in the pens, but agreed, no classics.
- wrycoder 3y ago
  Yeah, but it’s an excuse for the usual excellent HN pen appreciation.
mydriasis 3y ago
If you're a new or aspiring pen user, let me recommend you get a screw-top -- they won't pop open accidentally as you learn where you like to stash your pen. This was the cause of more than a few ink incidents for me when I was getting used to carrying a pen!
chema 3y ago
I am glad to see Schon DSGN there. I got myself a brass "Pocket Six" a few years ago and it is amazing. I use it daily. It is small and write like a dream. The owner now makes his own nib, which looks amazing. Highly recommended.
bborud 3y ago
I've been using fountain pens to write for about 35 years now, and I have pens that range from about $30 to about $500. At any given time I have about 2-3 pens either on my desk or in my backpack. The best value for money I've seen are the TWSBI pens. As writing instruments they are often more reliable than most of the pens I have that are more expensive. The production quality tends to be surprisingly consistent for a low cost pen. I have about 6-7 of these and I have only had one fail on me and that was because it got banged up in my backpack. These are good workhorses for people who take a lot of notes with generous size ink reservoirs. The least reliable pens I own are usually in the $150-$200 range. A lot of these pens either have problems with inconsistent manufacturing or they are fragile or in some way. A lot of these manufacturers have considerably more expensive versions, but the uneven manufacturing quality means I would only consider buying these in a store so I can have them serviced/adjusted/fixed or return them if they can't justify the price tag. I'm not really into expensive pens since I don't collect them to collect: I use them. Pens that aren't good writing instruments are of no use to me. A surprise for me is a Mont Blanc pen I've had for 15 or so years. I got it as a gift and I had never even considered buying a Mont Blanc since it is a luxury brand. Mont Blanc fountain pens are overpriced, but at least the pen I has performed without a hitch for 15 years. The best pen I own is a nondescript black fountain pen with a nib that has a really rough looking surface finish. It has no visible brand, which has made it hard to figure out what it is. I think it was made by a company that has since gone under. The nib works well for me and it has performed perfectly for about a decade. I tend to buy Leuchtturm 1917 A5 notebooks since these work well with almost all of my pen/ink combinations plus they are a nice size and have stiff covers. I tried Moleskine, but they're just not very good notebooks. The paper is too flimsy for fountain pens.
thisisauserid 3y ago
I bought a Pilot Vanishing Point on a whim just assuming I'd love it. (No wait, it was after some HN thread around five years ago, I think.) Anyway, it's so amazing that I've never considered another fountain pen. What am I missing?
- quantgenius 3y ago
  If you enjoy writing and love writing with a Vanishing Point, this is a question that is very, very dangerous for your pocketbook. :-)
- suzakus 3y ago
  The vanishing point (I have many many of these, including vintage ones!) has relatively low ink flow compared to some of their other pens. Generally, the amount of ink laid out and smoothness can vary quite a bit from pen to pen. The physical writing experience varies a lot, but if you're happy with it and don't want to spend more money on pens you're perfectly fine staying on the vanishing point. The convenience is hard to beat as well!
- Ancapistani 3y ago
  If you like your VP, consider buying only a “writing unit”. My favorite is a 0.9mm stub, which is somewhat hard to find. There are also a couple of additional variants of the Vanishing Point out there. The Decimo is identical but thinner.
agambrahma 3y ago
IMO posts like this contribute to the impression of _all_ fountain pens being "expensive, fancy things". I have a Lamy Safari that has lasted 12 years (and counting) I have a TWSBI Eco that has lasted 9 years (ditto) You have a LOT of options with pens and ink that are high-quality and long-lasting. Of course, there are _better_ ones out there, but it's important to share how easy it is to get started.
earthboundkid 3y ago
I'm the lone Kaweco fan. :-)
croisillon 3y ago
ah, this week's axiomdata316's post about fountain pens
- axiomdata316 3y ago
  Lol. Nice to know I have a follower! :-D I got into fountain pens through hacker news. I learn a lot from the comments on these posts.
coopreme 3y ago
Surprised it hasn’t been posted yet… but jetpens is worth supporting if you like pens. https://www.jetpens.com/Fountain-Pens/ct/214 https://www.jetpens.com/Fountain-Pens/ct/214

82 points by axiomdata316 3y ago

For anyone with a budding or casual interest in fountain pens, the Lamy Safari is the way to go. They're plentiful, inexpensive, rugged, and have plenty of nibs, cartridges, and refillable cartridges to experiment with. Just pick your color and start using it to figure out what you value in a pen. Don't let the grip shape scare you off, you might like it more than you thought, but if not it won't ruin the value as an experimentation platform. Note that unlike a ballpoint you'll need to experiment to find the right combination of nibs, inks, and papers. Also check out the unrelated free Handwriting Repair pdf so you don't feel ashamed and disappointed in yourself every time you use the pen. Plus it'll turn the flat shape of the nib into an advantage. Edit: People seem to like the Pilots. I haven't tried them, but they seem to also be inexpensive and have good nib and ink options.

falcolas 3y ago
I'd go one step further and suggest a Pilot disposable fountain pen. Their nibs are remarkably good, and you're only out around $2 if you dislike them. And if you like them, well then, have fun with your new hobby!
- kps 3y ago
  I second the recommendation to try Pilot first, though I haven't used any of their recent disposables. Pilot nibs are just remarkably consistently good. As a starter I'd suggest the Pilot Metropolitan with a medium nib (as Asian nibs tend to be a little finer than European nibs with the same designation) although my personal favourite ‘cheap’ pen (that is, in the Lamy Safari price range) is the old-style Prera (in the US, from JetPens).
  - haradion 3y ago
    I've got both a Metropolitan and a Prera, and I can second (third?) this recommendation. Fantastic pens.
- nunuvit 3y ago
  True, I actually did that myself when I impulse bought one at an art supply store since it was at the checkout counter. It's a great way to find out if you're interested in experimenting with pens, or if you just want a no-fuss tool and have a passing curiosity in fountain pens. Do this before getting a non-disposable.
- slowmovintarget 3y ago
  I was giving away Pilot Varsity pens (a.k.a. V-pens) to people around the office that were interested. Amazon sells them in boxes of 10, and yes they have a surprisingly good nib for such an inexpensive pen. They also have decent capacity, as the thing is basically a non-refillable ink tank with a novel felt feed (similar to what markers use). The next pen I recommend as a starter is usually the Pilot Metropolitan, or the TWSBI Eco for those who want to dive into bottled ink.
rPlayer6554 3y ago
The lamy safari is fantastic and only about $35. You can find a black one on Amazon for $20.
e40 3y ago
I saw the recommendation for the Lamy Safari in a lot of places. Just want to say I actually hated writing with it. Maybe I got a bad one, but I doubt it.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- dwringer 3y ago
  I've had a few Safaris and they're easily among my favorites, but personally it was common to get misaligned nibs with them, or extreme variation between two different nibs of the same grind (so I don't think the problem of "getting a bad one" is as unlikely as portrayed). The alignment problem occurs with all brands to one degree or another IME, and it's worth learning to make adjustments using a loupe or macro camera for anyone who's interested in the hobby. There's also a widespread problem of counterfeit Lamy Safaris out there, which usually come in subtly different packaging and/or have subtly different markings on the pen body. These are widely considered to be inferior, and fairly common if ordering somewhere like Amazon.
  - etrautmann 3y ago
    This is fascinating to me, as someone naive to the hobby. Can you describe what you're looking for and what adjustments you'd make? Are there two halves of the nib that need to be at the right spacing and alignment for proper ink-wicking or something like that? Does that affect the smoothness of the interaction with the paper too? I routinely work under a high-magnification dissecting scope to build experimental equipment for neuroscience, but I never considered that people would be doing this to optimized their writing instruments.
    - dwringer 3y ago
      Pretty much all of what you wrote is a consideration, but everyone probably has their own preferences (and in some part it's affected by writing angle and penmanship habits). Certain nib styles are better suited to different ways of holding a pen. And there's a lot more to it, since different papers react in different ways to different nibs, and inks are another wide-ranging variable. I think many people get drawn into the hobby for the endless pursuit of matching pens, papers, and inks, or trying to optimize for various characteristics across different combinations of the above. Of course a lot of people don't bother and just find one that works well enough and leave it at that.
dmpk2k 3y ago
A big problem with Safaris is they dry out quickly. There are many great pen varieties nowadays, none of which have this common fountain-pen shortcoming. Safaris are suitable for people who write daily; others should look elsewhere.
- throwaway2203 3y ago
  Do you have a recommendation?
  - dmpk2k 3y ago
    Three I know about are the TWSBI Eco and Diamond, and Pilot’s disposable Vpen. They’ve already been mentioned elsewhere in this thread. Beyond those, do research. Fountain pens drying out is a major problem that catches newcomers off-guard. When you can buy EnerGels for peanuts, fountain pen manufacturers really need to up their game to stay remotely competitive with other pen types. And many don’t.
    - quantgenius 3y ago
      You do need to cap fountain pens because the inks are water based. If you need to take quick notes and drying out is a problem because the pens are uncapped and capped a lot, get a Lamy 2000, vintage (not new) Parker 51 or a Pilot Vanishing Point. The first two have slip caps and hooded nibs so cap and uncap really quickly and don't dry out due to the hooded nib. The Vanishing Point also has a hooded nib but you click it like a ballpoint pen to expose and hide the nib. Also don't use quick drying inks. If drying out is a problem because you don't write frequently enough, there are two solutions. Solution 1: Buy a Platinum (Preppy for low end, or 3776 higher end). It has a really good cap. Both will take a long time to dry out. Or even better, write more frequently.
  - kps 3y ago
    Old Parker 51. (Emphatically, do not touch any current Parker.)
  - vgeek 3y ago
stefanka 3y ago
I got their „studio“ and it’s pretty decent for its price
sbaiddn 3y ago
The grip is the best part of the pen!
BeetleB 3y ago
I preferred the Pilot Metropolitan, with a Medium Nib (equivalent to Fine in Europe). It was my goto pen for a number of years, despite getting more expensive ones.
taeric 3y ago
I'm partial to the metropolitan pens. But, realistically, any pen is a fine starter nowadays. I am a huge fan of the larger nibs. I tried getting into calligraphy, but haven't managed the eye for it, yet. Tons and tons of fun, though.
Al-Khwarizmi 3y ago
In my view, Lamy Safari is way overrated. Don't get me wrong, it's far from bad, a pretty consistent pen for the price. But the ink dries fast-ish if you don't use it, and especially, the cartridges are proprietary so you're tied to the brand's cartridges and ink colors (there's a piston converter, but converters, meh). A Pilot Metropolitan is approximately the same price and at least in my view, it's better as it uses standard international cartridges. A TWSBI Eco is more expensive, but not by that much, and it's an absolute reliability monster.
- nunuvit 3y ago
  Can you also use cartridges with the TWSBI Eco? A first pen should give you the option. I haven't tried the Pilots, but the standard cartridge could change my recommendation to them.
  - rbonvall 3y ago
    No, the TWSBI Eco can only be filled from a bottle. The TWSBI Swipe supports both cartridges and converters.
    - nunuvit 3y ago
      Thanks for confirming. You really need to try both to find what you like.
  - Al-Khwarizmi 3y ago
    No, the Eco can only be filled with a piston mechanism, and yes, you have a point. While I love piston fillers, it can be off-putting for a complete beginner, so maybe better as second pen than as first :) The Pilot Metropolitan is great as first pen, IMO.
- hammyhavoc 3y ago
  Who downvoted you? It's a valid perspective.
- throwanem 3y ago
deleted 3y ago
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waynesonfire 3y ago
Agreed, love the Lamy Safari. I got the Al Star to up-scale it a bit. And, then a gold-nib later. But, honestly, like the steel more! I also tried the Pilot Metropolitan, for some reason this awful pen is recommended as an alternative to the Lamy. Doesn't even compare, got rid of it fairly quickly. The ridge along the grip was very uncomfortable for me.
- nunuvit 3y ago
  The Lamy grips are pretty controversial too. It looks like there are a few other pens that use the same nib and feed as the Metro. Do any of them lack that ridge?
Alifatisk 3y ago
> Also check out the unrelated free Handwriting Repair pdf Link?
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
- nordsieck 3y ago
  I assume your parent is referring to this: https://penvibe.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/Handwriting-Repair-Guidebook.pdf https://penvibe.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/Handwriting-R...
  - nunuvit 3y ago
    Yup, that's a copy of part of it.
- WillAdams 3y ago
  I suspect it would be something by Kate Gladstone: https://handwritingrepair.info https://handwritingrepair.info
  - nunuvit 3y ago
    Nope
jimmyjazz14 3y ago
I have a number of fountain pens but the one I keep coming back to is the Pilot Kakuno, they are super cheap but they just feel so good in hand especially for sketching and drawing.
- slowmovintarget 3y ago
  Pilot somehow pulls off miracles with their steel nibs. The Kakuno has the same nib as the Metropolitan or the Explorer, and they're great. Even better, the Kakuno can (just barely) fit the CON-70 converter for a nice big ink reservoir instead of the wee CON-40. Granted, refilling cartridges with bottled ink and blunt syringes works really well, too.
- quantgenius 3y ago
  Kakunos are awesome. Really good nibs. Awesome value for money.
frereubu 3y ago
The problem I have with the Safari is that I don't write much and they dry out before I use them much. My Kaweco Sport lasts for ages, and I think it's to do with the fit of the screw top compared to the relatively loose clicking mechanism of the Safari cap.
- trilobyte 3y ago
  I use a refillable cartridge on my pens and have dialed in about how much ink I should load at any given point in time based on my writing habits. It might help to play around with that.

nimbius 3y ago

For those of us that arent raking in the FAANG dosh for a 3 figure pen, give TWSBI a try. theyre just as good. https://www.twsbi.com/ https://www.twsbi.com/

disqard 3y ago
I'll second this recommendation! The TWSBI Eco is a beautiful, robust, and dependable pen.
cik 3y ago
I have a lot of fountain pens, some very high end, some cheap garbage. The TWSBI Echo is my favourite pen to write with. The nib is dreamy. Pare that with J.Herbin ink and it's the best writing experience I've ever had.
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now__what 3y ago
Lamy Safari has been my go-to for years, but for anyone starting out I recommend the TWSBI Eco. Only downside imo is inability to easily swap out nibs in a TWSBI.
deleted 3y ago
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eschneider 3y ago
The TWSBI pens definitely hit a sweet spot for me as well.
ssnistfajen 3y ago
TWSBI leans towards the thicker side for me personally, but it's a great workhorse pen for anyone who uses fountain pens daily on real writing tasks. TWSBI Eco's ink reservoir size and ease-of-use is simply unrivalled among competitors in the same price range.

ziml77 3y ago

I got into fountain pens for a while. One big problem with them is that you really need paper that's designed for them. A lot of common paper ends up wicking out the ink way too fast. But they are still pretty cool writing implements. It's easy to change the nibs in them so I would recommend trying out a few different sizes and styles to find one that suits you. It's a fun experience even if ballpoint pens are overall more practical.

dan-robertson 3y ago
I always got on fine with laser printer paper. But it was never really a hobby – my school required them at one point and at another my parents thought it would help my handwriting. If you have a bunch of school kids made to use fountain pens, they aren’t going to be fussing about paper quality; they’ll just use what they have and be fine with it. I think you don’t really need certain types of paper. People just like throwing money at the bits of their hobby that are easy to throw money at.
- BeetleB 3y ago
  In my experience, most laser printer papers feather heavily with fountain pen ink. I buy the Target brand ones, and they handle FP ink decently well. But yes - you definitely need paper that handles the ink well. Most notebooks sold in regular American stores do not. If your city has a Kinokuniya[1] store, likely most stationery sold there will handle it well as fountain pens are still used a lot in Japan. [1] https://usa.kinokuniya.com/ https://usa.kinokuniya.com/
  - ziml77 3y ago
    > fountain pens are still used a lot in Japan I ended up getting a Japanese notebook for that reason. I think the one I got may still have been a step up in quality from what's standard there, but it was a leap up from the generic US notebook I had been trying to use.
- waynesonfire 3y ago
  It's been a pleasure writing on the HP Printer Paper Premium 32 lb paper.

kwhitefoot 3y ago

How can one list classic fountain pens without including Platignum? They are actually affordable as well. https://www.hamiltonpens.com/collections/platignum/products/platignum-studio-fountain-pen-blue https://www.hamiltonpens.com/collections/platignum/products/...

Apreche 3y ago

For most of my life I hated fountain pens. It turns out that was because the ones I tried were cheap, bad, and/or broken. I gave them one more shot. Again, a lot of them I did not like, but the Platinum Preppy was excellent. I wanted to get another one with a finer tip, but they were out of stock. In the meantime I tried some others, and found the Lamy to be just as good, if not better. Just for the sake of convenience I went all in on Lamy and have no regrets. Wish I could have had pens like these back in the day when I was writing more and typing less.

Alifatisk 3y ago
I have Platinum Preppy right know (it’s my first fountain pen). My goal is to write beautifully in calligraphy. Which pen would you recommend?
- dbtc 3y ago
  If possible, get to a store where you can try a bunch and see for yourself.
- Ancapistani 3y ago
  What kind of calligraphy? For “pointed pen”, I love my Pilot Falcon. It’s got the most “flex” of any modern fountain pen I own - I own way, way too many fountain pens. I haven’t inventoried them in a couple of years, but I had >200 at the time.

amelius 3y ago

Has anyone here improved their handwriting later in life? How much practice did it take?

rbonvall 3y ago
You can improve just by learning the right technique (how to hold the pen, how to write by moving the arm rather than the wrist) and learning the proper letter shapes. That won't take more than a couple of hours, and from then on you just get practice by applying what you learnt whenever you have to write something down.
wise0wl 3y ago
I have improved my handwriting. It took a few months of consistent journaling with a fountain pen to find the "font" that worked for me. Now, I have different writing styles depending on how much time I can take. I use a broad nib for quick note taking because I don't have time to make it look "good", and a fine flex nib for when I'm journaling which I use to flourish things a bit.
Alifatisk 3y ago
Yes, I bought a cheap fountain pen together with a book I could improve my writing on.
disqard 3y ago
Speaking only for myself, it took a few months of regular writing. Like (perhaps) others, I had been forced to use them in grade school -- we were told that "it would improve our handwriting". It laid a foundation for fluency in cursive, but my actual handwriting was terrible. However, when I came back to fountain pens (after a couple of decades), it was relatively easy to improve my script to where I'm happy with it. Having the "cursive" foundation probably helped a ton.

bambax 3y ago

I write everyday with a Waterman Expert. They're a little expensive (usually less than EUR100) but nothing compared to Montblanc, and very pleasant and resilient. At some point I designed a blotter holder made of a plaque of stainless steel and a sheet of plexiglass, and hand-made blotter paper. I thought it was quite elegant [0] but I couldn't sell more than a couple of them, and now the inventory lingers in my garage ;-( [0] The page still exists on https://drop.com/buy/medusis-rocker-blotter https://drop.com/buy/medusis-rocker-blotter, although you can't order them from there anymore.

falcolas 3y ago

Another option are dip pens. They do not offer the same writing time as a regular fountain pen, but they are easier to clean and so let you experiment with exotic inks (such as those with particulate in them). I'm particularly fond of glass dip pens, as they offer a steady flow and you can get 2-3 lines of text out before you need to re-dip. They're also absurdly easy to clean, as they don't have any "pinch" points which can hide ink from you. On the flip side, they basically have one "width", which is about a 0.8mm line for mine. It's also glass, with everything that entails.

foobarian 3y ago

What advantages do fountain pens still have over modern gel ballpoints? I like the whole experience of fountain pens, how nice they look and the 'old-school' aspect, but sadly I don't feel they are practical any more.

pizlonator 3y ago
Hard to say if this is objective or not, but here goes… I find that I write faster with a good, reliable fountain pen (like a Sailor) than I do with a ballpoint, gel, rollerball, or anything else I’ve tried. It’s my go-to for fast note taking. On the other hand, there are a lot of cool and fancy fountain pens that are net slower to write with due to unreliability.
cfiggers 3y ago
The advantages are all minor—mostly it's an aesthetic preference rather than a practical one. But there are a few small things: - The mechanism of a fountain pen relies on capillary action and gravity rather than the mechanical rolling action of a ballpoint. This means you don't have to press the point down into the paper almost at all in order to write. This reduces writing fatigue, and can even make writing possible for folks with carpal tunnel or other sources of wrist pain (like healing wrist fractures or other issues). - Cursive was developed before ballpoints were common. This means that there's a bunch of subtle ways that most western cursive systems are optimized for the low-friction, gliding style of writing with a fixed tip and liquid ink rather than the constant pressure style of writing needed for ballpoints. It's actually less work and strain with a ballpoint NOT to join all your letters together. With a pen that uses liquid ink, it suddenly makes sense why not picking the point up from the page saves effort. - Fountain pens (can) use less disposable plastic than ballpoints, especially if you're a heavy journaler. A glass bottle of liquid ink will last months or years and there's no plastic inserts or disposable tips to be thrown away. So if you care about that sort of thing, a little bit less waste is an objective advantage. - Bottles of ink are cheaper per page written than most ballpoint refills. But, this is an invisible benefit to most because depending on how far you get into the hobby you'll inevitably end up spending much more on pens and paper than you would've ever spent on ballpoint refills. - The ink choices are way more diverse and interesting with fountain pens than with ballpoints. There's many color options available, and some inks have special properties, like drying with fun reflective spots wherever the ink pools or containing microscopic glitter particles to make your writing sparkly. - Fountain pens, depending on the specific design, are better suited for certain styles of calligraphy than most ballpoint pens are. But most people who get into fountain pens and ink do so because of aesthetics, not anything objectively superior.

pizlonator 3y ago

They forgot about the Sailor 1911

Ancapistani 3y ago
They missed a lot of excellent pens, and included some boutique makers - including a couple who, from the photos, use very cheap nibs while charging a premium price.

alienreborn 3y ago

Ten cheap yet great fountain pens from my experience: - Platinum Preppy/Prefounte/Plasir ($3-$20) - TWSBI ECO ($30-$50) - Pilot Metro/Cavalier ($20-$50) Cheap and OK pens (I found these better for drawing than writing): - Lamy Safari/Al-Star ($20-$50) - Kaweco Sport Classic ($20 -- ) 'Affordable' Gold Nib pens (These aren't necessarily 'better' but writing experience is different(softer feel) which some people prefer) - Pilot Elite 95S ($80-$100) - Pilot Decimo/Capless ($115-$160) All prices are from online stores available in US.

MezzoDelCammin 3y ago
To this I'd add: For the affordable gold nibs, "Lamy 2000" is generally the biggest competitor to Pilot Capless / Vanishing point. Same price, very similar nib quality, different esthetics / use case. For the cheap, the aliexpress classics "Jinhao x750" is another gateway drug. It's under $10 and gives an almost infinite ability for tinkering further down the line when the fountain pen bug bites (#6 size nibs that are easy to find / replace and standard cartridge / converter size for easy ink availability).

chad_strategic 3y ago

I have a Cross fountain pen, not sure what the model is, I'm not even sure how great it is or isn't. However I have had it at least since high school and that is over 30 years ago... Only have changed the nib and it still writes great.

rg111 3y ago

As a fountain pen enthusiast who uses fountain pens exclusively, this list surprises me. What does this author want to cover? Good looking expensive stuff? Just buy a Pilot Metropolitan or a Lamy Safari. Or even a Platinum Preppy. These pens are extremely cheap. And beyond these pens, if you notice any improvement in smoothness and comfort of writing, I would throw that in the margin of error. People have their reasons to buy more expensive pens. But if smoothness, comfort are your goal, then you can buy what I said. Metal-body Lamys and Pilots are also generational wealth. You can hand over one to your daughter after you write 40 years with it. My favorite fountain pen so far is: Pilot Custom 823. That's a bit expensive. But I used Metropolitan, Preppy, and Safari for close to a decade. And I had only these pens. Nothing else.

spyrefused 3y ago

For a article on classic pens I miss something from Kaweco or Lamy as entry level, for example, or some of the classic pens from japanese brands like Pilot or Sailor.

MezzoDelCammin 3y ago
oh, IMO the answer to what this article is missing is easy:"almost everything". To me it looks like some sort of product placement marketing fluff with "Montblanc" thrown in just to give it a measure of plausible deniability.

sbaiddn 3y ago

For a beginner, its hard to improve on the "pilot penenship" Its only flaw, in my opinion, is its lack of a clip

SlickStef11 3y ago

Man I love to see posts like this. I didn't know you nerds like Fountain pens as well. just bought a Visconti pen for the first time and Love it. Pricy, but has a great history. Mine is the emerald one.

quantgenius 3y ago

This list is certainly not classic fountain pens. They are mostly machined pens made by small batch producers with generic nibs and two with somewhat "different" nibs I wouldn't normally suggest most people get. These are pretty good pens but not what I would get as a first pen. Here are the pens I would suggest you consider if you don't know a lot about fountain pens. If you are a fountain pen collector, I'm mostly ignoring a number of European brands who make great pens but have nib quality control from hell which are fine if you know fountain pens and how to adjust nibs etc but not if you are a beginner. Budget under 40 bucks: 1) Lamy Safari: The grip section is triangular to support the traditional writing grip. It's one of the choices middle schoolers are require to use in certain European countries. If you have a traditional grip and don't have huge hands you will likely like it. If you don't, stay away. Lamy sometimes has quality control issues on it's inexpensive nibs but not as many as other European brands in my experience. 2) Pilot Metropolitan: Pilot has a reputation of really good quality control on what are very high quality nibs. The 20 dollar Pilot Metropolitan is no exception. Amazing writing experience for the money. Probably the best steel nibs you can buy. Competitive with many pens that cost over 100 dollars. 3) TWSBI Eco: Piston filler pen so you don't need a cartridge or converter. The pen is a demonstrator so you can see how it works. Comes in lots of cute colors. Uses Jowo nibs so the nibs are pretty good. Not quite as good as Pilot nibs. I suggest most people skip the next level up in price. You don't get much more for the money and you are probably better off saving for the next level up. Next level up from that. You usually get gold nibs at this level. 1) Lamy 2000: In permanent collection of the Museum of Modern Art. Design hasn't changed since the 1960s and is timeless. It's designed for people who know how to use fountain pens, the right amount of pressure, the right grip and who don't rotate the pen, the aforementioned kids in the European school who grew up on a Lamy ABC and then the Safari and so on. It's absolutely awesome but not recommended as your first fountain pen if you've never used one before. It's different from other pens so if you get it, I suggest you try it for a few weeks if you don't love it. I've known more than one person go from "I hate it" to "It's my favorite pen" as they learn how to use it. Absolutely beautiful and very understated pen. Amazing nibs that have a feel unlike any other. Slip cap so great for short notes. 2) Pilot Vanishing Point: Clicks to expose and hide the nib. No cap. So feels like a ball point. Nib is long and narrow so slightly bouncy. Really nice writing experience. There is clip near where your grip goes so some people won't like that. Very comfortable if you hold it with a traditional grip. Right up there with the Lamy 2000. 3) Platinum 3776: Really nice nib. Designed to give you feedback as you write so you have more control. It's very smooth but has feedback. Having the extra control is really nice if you write a lot of mathematical notation. 4) Sailor Pro Gear Slim or Sailor 1911 (not 1911L which is more expensive). Amazing nibs. The non slim versions are described below. These pens and nibs are a bit smaller, stiffer and very good but not as good as the large versions. Note that the Pro Gear Slim and Sailor 1911 (not 1911L), may be too small if you have large hands. Many of my female friends find these very comfortable. If you are all about the nib, Sailor probably makes the best nibs in the world today. Another level up: 1) Pilot Custom 823. Vacuum Filler. Amazing nib. Used by Neil Gaiman and other famous authors who like writing the first draft of their novels with a fountain pen. Used by other famous people as a signature pen. These pens are wet, i.e. put out a lot of ink. If you haven't graduated to fountain pen friendly paper, get a fine nib or maybe skip it for one of the others. 2) Platinum President. Like the Platinum 3776. More refined nib. Slightly thicker grip. Often available very cheaply on Amazon. Not very wet so very serviceable on cheap paper with cheap paper friendly ink. 3) Sailor 1911L or Sailor Pro Gear (not the slim version). Note: The slim versions are also very good but not quite as good. Sailor is thought to make the best nibs in the world. Absolutely amazing writing experience. Writing with a Sailor nib feels sort of like writing with a pencil. It's very smooth but not glass like. There is just enough control. Probably my favorite nibs. Not very wet so great for cheap paper. If you don't write on high quality paper, and I mean genuinely high quality paper, like Rhodia, Tomoe River, Clairefontaine etc. as opposed to overpriced junk like Moleskine, get a fine nib in anything but a Sailor or Platinum. You can get a medium nib Sailor or Platinum since their nibs run narrower. You should also limit yourself to a cheap paper compatible ink. You could try Platinum dye-based Blue Black, Diamine Registrar's Blue Black, Sailor Kiwa Giro, Sailor Seiboku or Sailor Souboku etc. You could get also get Noodler's Black. However, Noodler's hand mixes inks and the quality control is off a lot of the time. Nathan Tardiff's (owner and sole employee of Noodler's) political statements may not be compatible with a lot of the crowd on HN either. If you go with Noodler's, get regular Noodler's Black, do not get X-Feather. (edited: formatting and minor changes for clarity)

MezzoDelCammin 3y ago

One thing that hasn't been mentioned so far. We've seen comments that "race to the bottom" (Lamy Safari, Pilot Preppy, ...), or that aim for "timeless classics" (basically any gold nib - Sailor 1911, Pilot Falcon, ~$150+ pens). There's a third way though. The "actual piece of history". In my opinion, no pen is better for this than a Parker 51. This for me is the embodiment (and a parent of) "the consumer fountain pen". Seen and used everywhere from 1940s to about 1960s. The best part - these can now be had for ~$100 and a good portion of them still works beautifully to this day. With minimal maintenance (cleaning, sometimes slight nib polishing to remove the flat spots that come from long time use by their previous owners) one can get a working Parker 51 for under $60. The best part - these pens can go neck to neck with a lot of modern $150+ pieces. All the while most of these pens are older than majority of HN users. Heck, having a small collection myself, most of my Parker 51s are older than my parents.

quantgenius 3y ago
Totally agree. Properly restored vintage pens are absolutely awesome. You don't have to go as high end as a vintage Parker 51. Try an Esterbrook. They were the BIC of their day and are amazing. Very important warning regarding Parker 51s or any modern Parker. Do not buy the modern Parker 51!! The brand Parker is now owned by a company that is choosing to take advantage of people who remember the Parker brand and foisting total garbage on them.
- nolan879 3y ago
  I love my Esterbrooks, I was gifted a green model J many years ago, and I use it frequently at home. I recently purchased an SJ from an antiques market, and revived it with a new ink sac ($20 all in), this pen now lives on my desk at work. I prefer their lighter weight to the Pilot Metropolitans.
cge 3y ago
I'd agree. This article was not at all what I assumed it would be about: it is primarily a listing of boutique manufacturer pens that are entirely modern and not at all classic in mentality. They fit the standard "limited edition, barrel-design-focused, standard section and cartridge+converter, generic nib" product design and business model that I think is intrinsically linked to the move of fountain pens to being marketed as mostly status items. There are great, actually classic pens, and being from a time when they were meant to be used, they can be far more interesting. Parker 51s are ubiquitous and reliable, and vacuum fillers in general seem significantly better than modern cartridge and converter pens. For mid century technically-interesting pens, I'm fond of Sheaffer snorkel fillers, where the pen can be quickly refilled without the nib ever touching ink and changing the line thickness or becoming messy. Even earlier, Waterman and other pens with fine, flexible nibs offer nib styles that range from very difficult to impossible to get in modern pens.

jypepin 3y ago

I'm surprised they don't mention Parker. At school in France in the 90s, that was the true classic.

kps 3y ago
Parker was purchased by Newell Rubbermaid, and — as with so many other old famous brands — their current products are junk.

liendolucas 3y ago

I own a Pilot birdie which is extremely small but beautiful fountain pen. It resembles a tiny stainless steel rod. It was part of the "Birdie" collection which came also with a ball pen and mechanical pencil. Unfortunately as all good things they don't seem to manufacture them anymore. I started using it some time ago because I'm tired to buy plastic pens, also the its stroke is much better than anything else I've used so far. Fountain pens are a world.

Bud 3y ago

I have a Montblanc I got in the 80s. Still a pleasure to use. Great investment. For those seeking something more affordable, the Kaweco Sport is a great pen, great price, well worth the money, and a real pleasure. Ink cartridges are cheap, too.

tristor 3y ago

I collect fountain pens (and other types of pens) and paper/stationary. I have been writing extensively by hand for many many years. While it is not my overall favorite, I think it's important for folks to know that from a writing quality and feel perspective that modern low-cost pens are actually /very/ good, and are the way to go. The Platinum Preppy is every bit as good as the majority of classic fountain pens, and better than many, very few are better, and you can buy it for under $20 basically anywhere. The most important thing for writing with a fountain pen and having a good experience is actually the INK, not the pen, because the ink determines the flow, forgiveness, and the time to dry (which prevents smudging). Additionally, paper has a huge influence. I'd recommend investing in good quality paper with cotton in their mix. If you don't want to spend a lot but get good quality mass-produced stationary, G. Lalo and Clairefontaine are both good brands to buy.

bborud 3y ago
I've found that with regard to ink, there is no one size fits all solution. Some pens work with fast-flowing inks, other pens don't work as well. So there is some amount of trial and error that goes into pairing pen with ink.
- tristor 3y ago
  This is very true, the pen, ink, and paper work together to form a system. They all have some effect on all of the variables such as flow, ease of movement, drying time, etc. For the most part modern ink are better in every aspect compared to classic inks.
  - bborud 3y ago
    I'm not sure I understand the difference between modern and classic inks. Is there a definition somewhere? (I have 20-25 ink bottles of ink and by trial and error I've roughly figured out what ink works in what pen. I probably should know more about inks given that I write a lot, but I haven't made any systematic approach to figuring this out :-))

jurassicfoxy 3y ago

Are fountain pens exclusively a right-handed pleasure? I've tried, and the smudging has been an insurmountable obstacle. I would love to hear from some fellow lefties. I love pens, ink, and paper, but I feel cursed.

fowtowmowcow 3y ago
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eiZ9ifo4_4U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eiZ9ifo4_4U There seems to be a variety of suggestions and advice on using pens left handed on youtube.
Symbiote 3y ago
I think left-handed people rotate the paper slightly clockwise.
ben7799 3y ago
It mostly seems like they suck for us lefties and the articles about how to use them are just attempts to sell more fountain pens to lefties. The main point of superiority for fountain pens is if you are the person selling fountain pens. A lot of ballpoints absolutely suck for lefties too, but you can get good ballpoints that work perfect for left handed writing for 30x-100x less than the fountain pens in the article. And not have to jump through hoops or go through any hassle to get them to work.
oriolid 3y ago
I'm left-handed and the basic Platinum Preppy and the blue ink that comes with it by default work great for me. My hand brushes over the text but the ink dries so fast it's not a problem. Some fancier pens with flexible nib that gives more control over line width really need that you don't push against the grain and are impossible to write with left hand.
Ancapistani 3y ago
There are fast-drying inks that are suitable for lefties. Noodler’s Q-E’ternity comes to mind.
wrp 3y ago

vr46 3y ago

This “article” is total “churnalism”, just marketing bunk with absolutely no content. Obviously I am aware what Wallpaper* is, which is mainly a conduit to help people spend their money as fast as possible like Brewster’s Millions, but this article on HN is surely misdirected.

sn41 3y ago
Thank you for a delightful term - churnalism : I had never heard that before!!
slowmovintarget 3y ago
Agreed. Most of those listings aren't even close to being classics. For example, The Monoc Nib is very new. It didn't exist a few scant months ago. While I hope Ian Schon succeeds and it does become considered a classic, a single-piece titanium nib unit that encloses an Ultem feed is not a typical fountain pen design. (Very cool, just not classic yet... give it 20 years). The Montblanc, and maybe the Conway Stewart may be the only classic brands there.
- vr46 3y ago
  The HN comment thread - once again - provides more entertainment and enlightenment than the original post :) There’s some innovative features in the pens, but agreed, no classics.
wrycoder 3y ago
Yeah, but it’s an excuse for the usual excellent HN pen appreciation.

mydriasis 3y ago

If you're a new or aspiring pen user, let me recommend you get a screw-top -- they won't pop open accidentally as you learn where you like to stash your pen. This was the cause of more than a few ink incidents for me when I was getting used to carrying a pen!

chema 3y ago

I am glad to see Schon DSGN there. I got myself a brass "Pocket Six" a few years ago and it is amazing. I use it daily. It is small and write like a dream. The owner now makes his own nib, which looks amazing. Highly recommended.

bborud 3y ago

I've been using fountain pens to write for about 35 years now, and I have pens that range from about $30 to about $500. At any given time I have about 2-3 pens either on my desk or in my backpack. The best value for money I've seen are the TWSBI pens. As writing instruments they are often more reliable than most of the pens I have that are more expensive. The production quality tends to be surprisingly consistent for a low cost pen. I have about 6-7 of these and I have only had one fail on me and that was because it got banged up in my backpack. These are good workhorses for people who take a lot of notes with generous size ink reservoirs. The least reliable pens I own are usually in the $150-$200 range. A lot of these pens either have problems with inconsistent manufacturing or they are fragile or in some way. A lot of these manufacturers have considerably more expensive versions, but the uneven manufacturing quality means I would only consider buying these in a store so I can have them serviced/adjusted/fixed or return them if they can't justify the price tag. I'm not really into expensive pens since I don't collect them to collect: I use them. Pens that aren't good writing instruments are of no use to me. A surprise for me is a Mont Blanc pen I've had for 15 or so years. I got it as a gift and I had never even considered buying a Mont Blanc since it is a luxury brand. Mont Blanc fountain pens are overpriced, but at least the pen I has performed without a hitch for 15 years. The best pen I own is a nondescript black fountain pen with a nib that has a really rough looking surface finish. It has no visible brand, which has made it hard to figure out what it is. I think it was made by a company that has since gone under. The nib works well for me and it has performed perfectly for about a decade. I tend to buy Leuchtturm 1917 A5 notebooks since these work well with almost all of my pen/ink combinations plus they are a nice size and have stiff covers. I tried Moleskine, but they're just not very good notebooks. The paper is too flimsy for fountain pens.

thisisauserid 3y ago

I bought a Pilot Vanishing Point on a whim just assuming I'd love it. (No wait, it was after some HN thread around five years ago, I think.) Anyway, it's so amazing that I've never considered another fountain pen. What am I missing?

quantgenius 3y ago
If you enjoy writing and love writing with a Vanishing Point, this is a question that is very, very dangerous for your pocketbook. :-)
suzakus 3y ago
The vanishing point (I have many many of these, including vintage ones!) has relatively low ink flow compared to some of their other pens. Generally, the amount of ink laid out and smoothness can vary quite a bit from pen to pen. The physical writing experience varies a lot, but if you're happy with it and don't want to spend more money on pens you're perfectly fine staying on the vanishing point. The convenience is hard to beat as well!
Ancapistani 3y ago
If you like your VP, consider buying only a “writing unit”. My favorite is a 0.9mm stub, which is somewhat hard to find. There are also a couple of additional variants of the Vanishing Point out there. The Decimo is identical but thinner.

agambrahma 3y ago

IMO posts like this contribute to the impression of _all_ fountain pens being "expensive, fancy things". I have a Lamy Safari that has lasted 12 years (and counting) I have a TWSBI Eco that has lasted 9 years (ditto) You have a LOT of options with pens and ink that are high-quality and long-lasting. Of course, there are _better_ ones out there, but it's important to share how easy it is to get started.

earthboundkid 3y ago

I'm the lone Kaweco fan. :-)

croisillon 3y ago

ah, this week's axiomdata316's post about fountain pens

axiomdata316 3y ago
Lol. Nice to know I have a follower! :-D I got into fountain pens through hacker news. I learn a lot from the comments on these posts.

coopreme 3y ago

Surprised it hasn’t been posted yet… but jetpens is worth supporting if you like pens. https://www.jetpens.com/Fountain-Pens/ct/214 https://www.jetpens.com/Fountain-Pens/ct/214