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I feel like socialism has become really popular with the younger generation in the last 10 years, to the point where it's now very common to just see capitalism

I feel like socialism has become really popular with the younger generation in the last 10 years, to the point where it's now very common to just see capitalism blamed for all sorts of things for which it likely has little to do with. I don't see socialism ever really being feasible or taking off, because capitalism does have so many advantages, and I feel like the pure socialism many advocate for is at odds with human nature. The goal I think should be to try to negate the disadvantages as much as possible through regulation, and this is what places like the Nordic countries, Australia and NZ seem to be doing pretty successfully - not there isn't still mass room for improvement.

thatfrenchguy 4y ago
The thing is that what people call "socialism" in the US is just what most people in Europe would call vaguely center-left "social democracy". There's so many places in the US where the private markets are mis-organized and mis-regulated (healthcare, drugs, transportation and housing being the most obvious four) that's it's pretty obvious to find why younger folks are tending left.
- webnrrd2k 4y ago
  Don't forget education -- a generation of students have graduated with crushing debt. Is it not hard to imagine why they often support European-style center-left social democracy.
baggy_trough 4y ago
[flagged]
- malermeister 4y ago
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  - baggy_trough 4y ago
    [flagged]
    - charlieyu1 4y ago
      [flagged]
      - epakai 4y ago
        What part of socialist ideology stipulates the horrible things? It was somewhat inherent in Nazi ideology that there was a superior group and inferior groups. Even this would have resulted in a atrocity, but moreso was their will to export their ideology by empire building. I don't see the same sort of failures stemming from socialism. Expansionism certainly leads to strife, but the ideology itself doesn't enforce an us and them. Except insofar as there are adherents and opponents of the ideology itself.
  - kneebonian 4y ago
    See holomdor, the great leap forward, the five year plan, the gulags, the Uighyr genocide, the Khmer Rogue.
  - ejb999 4y ago
    [flagged]
- webnrrd2k 4y ago
  I think that the communists might want a word with you: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_killings_under_communist_regimes https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_killings_under_communis...
rsynnott 4y ago
I mean, I think a lot of it comes down to what people mean by ‘socialism’. Some people would call the regulation you mention ‘socialist’ (this isn’t really correct, but it has become a common usage, so…) I don’t think that many people are actually arguing for abandoning market economies (some are, but it’s a minority view); the major disagreement is the amount of regulation and social transfer that should be applied to a market economy.
kneebonian 4y ago
My sister recently posted a series of problems she has with "capitalism" on Instagram. They basically all boiled down to "I don't want to have to work" I didn't have the heart to point out that "He who does not work shall not eat." Was said by Karl Marx. I feel that part of the youths obsession with socialism and blaming capitalism is that they have never experienced scarcity to any real degree and because of that do not understand that there are limited resources, and their issue is fundamentally with that concept that they want to blame on capitalism.
- selimthegrim 4y ago
  Marx kind of borrowed that from the Bible.
  - tcmart14 4y ago
    Yup. Marx borrowed a lot. Very little of Marx's ideas on their own are original. Really what he did was stitch together work from multiple sources. Lots of his contradictions of capitalism come from Adam Smith in some form. Marx is also, if I remember correctly, influence by early christian communes. As I said, most of his ideas taken individually are not original to him, it is only when it is all combined, it is original.
  - dragonwriter 4y ago
    Lots of people borrowed that from the Bible, but AFAICT Marx isn’t one of them (Lenin is, but even as much as Leninists like to pretend Leninism is Marxism, even they don’t pretend Marx and Lenin are literally the same person.)
    - selimthegrim 4y ago
      Correct, I was responding to OP but it was Lenin.
- mrkeen 4y ago
  Are you saying your sister is the straw man in this debate?
qsort 4y ago
It isn't any more or any less popular than it has always been. The same goes for stuff like racists, paleo-conservatives, people who read Ayn Rand, overt nazis and other amusing creatures. Our media diet has changed substantially, and now any random idiot with a wildly improbable theory can share it with the world with no effort. Populist stuff that seems to make sense on the surface always has the upper hand in an unmoderated debate.
Nasrudith 4y ago
Socialists are worrying but a noisy minority who never shut up pretending to be far bigger than they are within their bubbles. You can tell this by their complete lack of electoral success. Instead they operate based entirely upon sophistry of some sort or another trying to manufacture a mandate when the numbers just aren't there. It is essentially pure copium mistaken for a tactic. Combine that with the addiction to being the resulting reoccurring self-sabotage like purity spirals and fractal ideological divisions for the sake of their own sense of identity and I don't see them going anywhere.
dexterdog 4y ago
Socialism appeals to youth because it emphasizes fairness which is something we stress as important to young people. The problem is that it doesn't work at scale so they have to realize that as they grow. People who pick up on it too soon are selfish and greedy. People who pick up on it too late are just not very bright. Some people appear to be the latter, but just know that the longer they can keep others from picking up on it the more they can fleece them.
intalentive 4y ago
Socialism is popular with the young because what passes for capitalism offers a bum deal. Each generation is poorer than the last — home ownership is out of reach, college debt is high, job prospects are dim.

thatfrenchguy 4y ago

The thing is that what people call "socialism" in the US is just what most people in Europe would call vaguely center-left "social democracy". There's so many places in the US where the private markets are mis-organized and mis-regulated (healthcare, drugs, transportation and housing being the most obvious four) that's it's pretty obvious to find why younger folks are tending left.

webnrrd2k 4y ago
Don't forget education -- a generation of students have graduated with crushing debt. Is it not hard to imagine why they often support European-style center-left social democracy.

baggy_trough 4y ago

[flagged]

malermeister 4y ago
[flagged]
- baggy_trough 4y ago
  [flagged]
  - charlieyu1 4y ago
    [flagged]
    - epakai 4y ago
      What part of socialist ideology stipulates the horrible things? It was somewhat inherent in Nazi ideology that there was a superior group and inferior groups. Even this would have resulted in a atrocity, but moreso was their will to export their ideology by empire building. I don't see the same sort of failures stemming from socialism. Expansionism certainly leads to strife, but the ideology itself doesn't enforce an us and them. Except insofar as there are adherents and opponents of the ideology itself.
- kneebonian 4y ago
  See holomdor, the great leap forward, the five year plan, the gulags, the Uighyr genocide, the Khmer Rogue.
- ejb999 4y ago
  [flagged]
webnrrd2k 4y ago
I think that the communists might want a word with you: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_killings_under_communist_regimes https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_killings_under_communis...

rsynnott 4y ago

I mean, I think a lot of it comes down to what people mean by ‘socialism’. Some people would call the regulation you mention ‘socialist’ (this isn’t really correct, but it has become a common usage, so…) I don’t think that many people are actually arguing for abandoning market economies (some are, but it’s a minority view); the major disagreement is the amount of regulation and social transfer that should be applied to a market economy.

kneebonian 4y ago

My sister recently posted a series of problems she has with "capitalism" on Instagram. They basically all boiled down to "I don't want to have to work" I didn't have the heart to point out that "He who does not work shall not eat." Was said by Karl Marx. I feel that part of the youths obsession with socialism and blaming capitalism is that they have never experienced scarcity to any real degree and because of that do not understand that there are limited resources, and their issue is fundamentally with that concept that they want to blame on capitalism.

selimthegrim 4y ago
Marx kind of borrowed that from the Bible.
- tcmart14 4y ago
  Yup. Marx borrowed a lot. Very little of Marx's ideas on their own are original. Really what he did was stitch together work from multiple sources. Lots of his contradictions of capitalism come from Adam Smith in some form. Marx is also, if I remember correctly, influence by early christian communes. As I said, most of his ideas taken individually are not original to him, it is only when it is all combined, it is original.
- dragonwriter 4y ago
  Lots of people borrowed that from the Bible, but AFAICT Marx isn’t one of them (Lenin is, but even as much as Leninists like to pretend Leninism is Marxism, even they don’t pretend Marx and Lenin are literally the same person.)
  - selimthegrim 4y ago
    Correct, I was responding to OP but it was Lenin.
mrkeen 4y ago
Are you saying your sister is the straw man in this debate?

qsort 4y ago

It isn't any more or any less popular than it has always been. The same goes for stuff like racists, paleo-conservatives, people who read Ayn Rand, overt nazis and other amusing creatures. Our media diet has changed substantially, and now any random idiot with a wildly improbable theory can share it with the world with no effort. Populist stuff that seems to make sense on the surface always has the upper hand in an unmoderated debate.

Nasrudith 4y ago

Socialists are worrying but a noisy minority who never shut up pretending to be far bigger than they are within their bubbles. You can tell this by their complete lack of electoral success. Instead they operate based entirely upon sophistry of some sort or another trying to manufacture a mandate when the numbers just aren't there. It is essentially pure copium mistaken for a tactic. Combine that with the addiction to being the resulting reoccurring self-sabotage like purity spirals and fractal ideological divisions for the sake of their own sense of identity and I don't see them going anywhere.

dexterdog 4y ago

Socialism appeals to youth because it emphasizes fairness which is something we stress as important to young people. The problem is that it doesn't work at scale so they have to realize that as they grow. People who pick up on it too soon are selfish and greedy. People who pick up on it too late are just not very bright. Some people appear to be the latter, but just know that the longer they can keep others from picking up on it the more they can fleece them.

intalentive 4y ago

Socialism is popular with the young because what passes for capitalism offers a bum deal. Each generation is poorer than the last — home ownership is out of reach, college debt is high, job prospects are dim.