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> Creating good randomness is a daunting task - Ledger devices rely on dedicated silicon logic in our certified smartcard chips that have been the gold standard

• nintendo1889 3y ago
  Which is why we transfer small amounts to the wasabi hot-wallet, coinjoin, and then spend. Each spend is then joined with another spend to obfuscate every purchase. It requires careful budgeting for future purchases (as the coin-join takes time). Trezor now has experimental support for directly coin-joining bitcoin that is stored on the cold-wallet, but I don't think anyone should trust it.
  • justinator 3y ago
    Not to be snarky, but this sounds real convenient. Why don’t we just admit these tools are just fundamentally broken?
    • hammyhavoc 3y ago
      Because people are still HODLing their dIaMoNd HaNdS.
    • olalonde 3y ago
      Compared to what? The only realistic alternative here is mailing cash, which is arguably more inconvenient.
      • Retric 3y ago
        Why not use those gift credit cards loaded with cash if you want anonymity for less effort?
        • rt4mn 3y ago
          with the caveat that I dont personally use bitcoin, I still think the above description is simpler then using gift credit cards, for a couple of reasons: - gift cards involves getting in a car and driving to a place to buy them, which introduces annoying logistical issues - the purchases made on a single card are linked together, so you have to keep track of cards you use for x store and what cards you use for y product (this is also true with bitcoin though, which is why I prefer other more privacy-focused cryptocurrencies) - with gift cards there is a very high chance that your funds will be rejected or flagged as suspicious. which also limits the amount you can spend to around 100-200 dollers, since any more risks having all the money you put into that card flushed down toilet I do personally keep a couple of gift cards on hand for the rare occasion I find myself needing to pay for something online and there is no alternative vender that accepts cryptocurrency (usually event tickets or membership subscriptions), but its a pain and I much prefer paying for things with cryptocurrency. Cryptocurrency is an unregulated and environmentally disastrous ecosystem rife with monopolistic vender lock in, fraud and abuse, and little to no accountability or legal recourse for end users. But that's also true with the credit card / debit card / other electronic payment ecosystem. At least with cryptocurrency I get a modicum of privacy.
          • olalonde 3y ago
• lxgr 3y ago
  These data leaks are indeed very bad, but in what way do they make the actual core product and its security goals "worthless and entirely irrelevant"?
  • krono 3y ago
    What good is all this super reliable gold-standard encryption when its provider has shown to be so incredibly careless with the exact sort of information this solution is meant to protect? Whatever security goals they claim to pursue exist only in their marketing copy.
    • DennisP 3y ago
      The point of good randomness is to keep other people from just directly draining your funds by breaking your key. That has nothing to do with any data held by Ledger, since they never see your key. The data leaks don't affect that, though they're still a serious problem since they exposed customers to different sorts of attacks.
    • lxgr 3y ago
      Properly operating/securing a web shop and developing a secure embedded device are two pretty different skill sets, and I'm quite impressed with the quality of their security team's research concerning the latter. Of course they should be doing both, but there's an easy, pragmatic workaround until then: You can just buy their devices on Amazon. (This does somewhat increase the chance of supply chain attacks, but that's always present, and I believe Ledger devices support hardware attestation in addition to tamper protection.)
• renewiltord 3y ago
  Wait, that's neither worthless nor irrelevant. You can't take all my money using my personal and purchase data.
  • krono 3y ago
    They sell security, whilst habitually neglecting to secure their shit. Who knows what it'll be that's compromised next. For being offline wallets, their products sure do come with many connectivity options and live/online service integrations.
    • DennisP 3y ago
      Ultimately the point of a hardware wallet is to connect it to a blockchain somehow, without losing security.