15 ms·

Significant breakthrough in search for Parkinson's biomarker

495 points by sandGorgon 3y ago

neals 3y ago
As I am now casually interested in the subject, what's a good resource to find out why this disease is hard to detect and cure and various other interesting facts?
- pyryt 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - nequo 3y ago
    Why feed yourself with potential misinformation that you don’t know the true source of and you might never double check?
    - ethbr0 3y ago
      > Why feed yourself with potential misinformation that you don’t know the true source of and you might never double check? Because I enjoy reading HN?
      - nequo 3y ago
        When you run out of HN, do you hit up ChatGPT?
        ethbr0 3y ago
        I ask ChatGPT to write me a comment thread in the style of Hacker News.
      - garyrob 3y ago
        Oh, that was just too easy... :)
    - insanitybit 3y ago
      As opposed to? Unless you're actually going to read individual papers, vet the authors, have the baseline statistical knowledge to understand the results, etc, you're always going to be susceptible to potential misinformation. This HN topic is a good example of the difficulty of verifying information. Who's to say that ChatGPT doesn't provide a better job of filtering it out?
      - nequo 3y ago
        Yes, I would start with Google Scholar, or at least Wikipedia because it tries to provide sources for each statement that it makes. > Who’s to say that ChatGPT doesn’t provide a better job of filtering it out? No one because no one knows what sources ChatGPT is blending together in its sentences.
        kanzure 3y ago
        > I would start with Google Scholar You actually should vet everything you read through Google Scholar too. There is a pervasive belief of consensus in academic science and unfortunately individually verifying information is the only thing we know that actually works- not political consensus.
        kfrzcode 3y ago
        [flagged]
        deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
        nequo 3y ago
        I am not trolling. I don’t recommend engaging in a good-faith dialogue with someone by prefacing it with your belief that they are trolling. If you're basing your trust in ChatGPT on the claim that it is trained on Wikipedia, you might as well read Wikipedia instead because then you also see the sources for each claim, or the fact that certain claims are unsourced. ChatGPT will not let you know if a certain claim is more controversial, nor give you further sources to read if you want to know the background of a claim.
  - sph 3y ago
    Can we have a line on the HN guidelines saying "telling people you asked about <topic> on ChatGPT doesn't make for interesting discussion. Please refrain from doing so." Especially in this case where you don't even tell what did you find out, only that you did ask ChatGPT. Good for you.
    - nkotov 3y ago
      It's the new LMGTFY
      - sph 3y ago
        But posing as helpful instead of sarcastic, yet equally annoying.
- Cthulhu_ 3y ago
  A cursory browse of wikipedia is my first port of call, that's what chatgpt bases their answer on as well (what the other commenter pointed out). Yeah it's not verified etc, but it's more accessible than reading the sources it cites itself on.
- parkersweb 3y ago
  I’d recommend Rory Cellan Jones on Substack [1]. He was the technology correspondent for the BBC until a few years ago - and is now retired partly because of the onset of Parkinson’s. As a result he’s devoted much of his retirement to reporting on innovation in treating and managing Parkinson’s. [1] https://rorycellanjones.substack.com https://rorycellanjones.substack.com
- photochemsyn 3y ago
  One neglected issue in the article and the comments is that Parkinson's is associated with exposure to various neurotoxic substances including organophosphorous pesticides: https://academic.oup.com/ije/article/42/5/1476/623189 https://academic.oup.com/ije/article/42/5/1476/623189 > "In a population-based case-control study, we assessed frequency of household pesticide use for 357 cases and 807 controls... Frequent use of any household pesticide increased the odds of PD by 47% [odds ratio (OR) = 1.47, (95% confidence interval (CI): 1.13, 1.92)]; frequent use of products containing OPs increased the odds of PD more strongly by 71% [OR = 1.71, (95% CI: 1.21, 2.41)] and frequent organothiophosphate use almost doubled the odds of PD." This is further supported by previous discoveries of Parkinson's brought on by exposure to an opiate analog MPTP, as well as several other pesticides: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5345642/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5345642/ > "The identification of MPTP, a relatively simple compound which causes selective degeneration of the substantia nigra after systemic administration, has had an a significant impact on the understanding and treatment of Parkinson’s disease (PD) over the last 30 years." It's rather curious that this foundation neglects to discuss any of this, but it is funded by entities affiliated with pharmaceutical manufacturers so perhaps it's not something they want to bring attention to? It does fit with a general pattern of attempting to blame diseases affiliated with environmental exposures on genetics, however.
- twic 3y ago
  This might be useless to you, but OMIM is the canonical database of genetic diseases, and has tons of information: https://www.omim.org/entry/168600 https://www.omim.org/entry/168600 https://www.omim.org/entry/168601 https://www.omim.org/entry/168601
avazhi 3y ago
Not to unnecessarily shit on the parade, but I’m not sure this is by itself all that exciting, and calling it a breakthrough seems like an exaggeration. Diagnosing Parkinson’s isn’t really an issue - worst case you give the putative sufferer Levadopa and see if they respond. If they do, they’ve got Parkinson’s. Not sure how much this really changes the time horizon for an actual treatment. It’s progress, ostensibly, but I’d quibble with categorising it as a breakthrough.
- fatfingerd 3y ago
  Finding subtypes before clear symptoms is obviously superior for testing earlier intervention and allowing patients to make a living will with fuller faculties.
- echelon 3y ago
  > I’m not sure this is by itself all that exciting This actually seems pretty significant. 1) It gets us closer to understanding the pathology: >> It also suggests that alpha-synuclein aggregation in spinal fluid is not a life-long trait but rather acquired as part of a disease biology process that ultimately gives rise to symptoms. 2) It gives us a higher resolution of detection. >> αSyn-SAA can distinguish Parkinson’s from control volunteers with a stunningly robust sensitivity of 88 percent and specificity of 96 percent. 3) It shows different disease subtypes or mechanisms: >> These results suggest that not all cases of clinical Parkinson’s symptoms are associated with the accumulation of alpha-synuclein aggregates as detected by this assay, and that LRRK2 variant carriers, in particular, may not show this pathology. 4) It gets us earlier signal: >> This finding suggests that synuclein pathology could be detectable by this assay earlier than dopamine dysfunction is seen with DAT imaging, extending the window in which it may be possible to intervene with preventive therapies. This is a valuable tool that will shed light on the entire disease pathology and guide further research and investigation into treatments.
- threeseed 3y ago
  They are working towards not requiring spinal fluid for the test. So it's possible that it could end up being a non-invasive test that could be done at regular intervals early in life. Especially given that 15% of people with Parkinson's have a family history.
nailer 3y ago
On a tangent, they also know the enzyme that causes SIDS and should have a testing program in place soon.
- CoastalCoder 3y ago
  This sounds really interesting! Can you provide a link to more info?
  - meindnoch 3y ago
    "A 2022 study found that infants who died of SIDS exhibited significantly lower specific activity of butyrylcholinesterase, an enzyme involved in the brain's arousal pathway, shortly after birth. This can serve as a biomarker to identify infants with a potential autonomic cholinergic dysfunction and elevated risk for SIDS." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SIDS https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SIDS
    - giantg2 3y ago
      Maybe this can stop the false prosecutions too. Or would they not be able to measure the enzymes in an autopsy?
      - jpk2f2 3y ago
        May help, but it's still only one (potential) cause of SIDS. SIDS encompasses a wide variety of risk factors. For example, heart pathologies are another common cause of SIDS. Additionally, stomach sleeping and inadvertent suffocation are other common risk factors.
DavidPeiffer 3y ago
If anyone wants to help the cause, PPMI is a large scale study funded by the Michael J Fox Foundation to help find early biomarkers. Even if you have no history of Parkinson’s in your family, you can participate in the study which is primarily surveys. It's easy to participate, and can help find more early indications of a horrible disease. https://www.michaeljfox.org/ppmi-clinical-study https://www.michaeljfox.org/ppmi-clinical-study
- mahmoudhossam 3y ago
  Unfortunately US and Canada residents only for now.
  - timbit42 3y ago
    Appears to be US only right now.
lambdaba 3y ago
I just found out about Thiamine (vitamin B1) megadose therapy for Parkinson's: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3762356/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3762356/ Another study: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26505466/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26505466/ > Conclusions: Administration of parenteral high-dose thiamine was effective in reversing PD motor and nonmotor symptoms. The clinical improvement was stable over time in all the patients. From our clinical evidence, we hypothesize that a dysfunction of thiamine-dependent metabolic processes could cause selective neural damage in the centers typically affected by this disease and might be a fundamental molecular event provoking neurodegeneration. Thiamine could have both restorative and neuroprotective action in PD. This experience report of halting Parkinson's: https://youtu.be/iuSOQOTyB9w https://youtu.be/iuSOQOTyB9w
- surume 3y ago
  God bless you for sharing this. Thank you.
- jtbayly 3y ago
  If this Was discovered 10 years ago, I’m assuming it must be fairly limited in helping, or the results haven’t lasted or something?
  - Mizza 3y ago
    The cynic in me assumes that it's because this is not a patentable drug. EDIT: MJF foundation is aware of it at least - https://www.michaeljfox.org/news/thiamine-vitamin-b1-and-parkinsons https://www.michaeljfox.org/news/thiamine-vitamin-b1-and-par..., but points out problems with the study. Further Googling quickly leads to the usual quackery about the magical properties of different supplements and vitamins. Hope this goes somewhere though.
    - _qua 3y ago
      No way. About five years ago there was a quack-y study about reducing death in sepsis which called for high-dose vitamin C, thiamine and steroids. None of these are patent protected. The first study purported to show a 100% reduction in mortality. There were many RCTs done after this which did not bear out the effect, and it has now essentially been proven to be ineffective. it is possible to fund studies without industry money.
c3534l 3y ago
My grandmother had Parkinson's and it was awful. How long until I can go to the doctor, get some blood drawn, and see if I'll develop it one day?
- PaulKeeble 3y ago
  You could do a genetic test, Parkinsons has well associated genetic markers and consumer level companies can do testing of this (and others). 23 and me have a bit on it. https://www.23andme.com/topics/health-predispositions/parkinsons-disease/ https://www.23andme.com/topics/health-predispositions/parkin...
  - Palomides 3y ago
    it's not a trivially heritable disease, genetic testing can't tell you with any real confidence if you'll develop symptoms edit: you may be able to contact a parkinson's genetics counselor specialist which may be more useful
  - mtlmtlmtlmtl 3y ago
    Although if 23andme say you don't have the genes, you might still have them. Also they'll probably sell your data.
- EvanAnderson 3y ago
  What would you do if you found out you would? (I ask as someone whose great-grandfather, great-uncle, and grandfather all had Parkinson’s.) I’ve avoided any testing because, as far as I know, there’s nothing preventative to be done. I’d love to hear otherwise. I’ve broached the subject with my last two primary care physicians and both advised that there was no point in knowing.
  - melling 3y ago
    Yes, the age old debate of knowing versus not knowing. I think I’ll skip it because it’s not productive. However, I will point out that your average billionaire with a few decades of advanced notice might be willing to fund research: https://www.forbes.com/sites/kerryadolan/2022/12/09/exclusive-google-cofounder-sergey-brin-has-quietly-donated-more-than-1-billion-toward-this-one-specific-disease/?sh=5c972b8c4d59 https://www.forbes.com/sites/kerryadolan/2022/12/09/exclusiv...
shadowtree 3y ago
Interesting that big flu outbreaks cause a long term spike in Parkinson's - how much more will be traced back to the impact of viruses? Saw that come up as a worry around Covid, seems the loss of smell/taste is a commonality with Parkison. We will not know for a decade or two though, but these biomarkers might help accelerate measuring the impact.
- graeme 3y ago
  It’s very plausible in 10-20 years or so. Studies found a massive increase in acting out of dreams amongst those who had Covid. This acting out of dreams is a very strong precursor to Parkinson’s. According to this, 80% of people with it get Parkinson’s within 20 years. https://www.salon.com/2023/04/24/long-parkinsons/ https://www.salon.com/2023/04/24/long-parkinsons/
  - yosito 3y ago
    Well that certainly puts a dark twist on the phrase "living the dream".
- Workaccount2 3y ago
  I am currently struggling with the idea of going back to vaping, having quit 3 years ago following covid, because nicotine has consistently shown to be a strong drug for fending off parkinsons.
  - sbmsr 3y ago
    Would nicotine patches help?
    - Workaccount2 3y ago
      I could do that, but I smoked cigarettes for 7 years and then vaped for 9 years. So I don't know if I could jump back into nicotine but hold off on the smoking/vaping aspect of it.
FollowingTheDao 3y ago
This is everything and nothing all at once. Synucleinopathies are found in many neurological diseases. They even find it in Long COVID. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9108014/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9108014/ This is a marker for many diseases. They still have not found the trigger for Synucleinopathies, which I believe is a nutrient deficiency causing oxidative stress and zinc is at the top of my list. https://academic.oup.com/hmg/article/23/11/2791/621896 https://academic.oup.com/hmg/article/23/11/2791/621896 https://academic.oup.com/brain/article/142/8/2380/5523051 https://academic.oup.com/brain/article/142/8/2380/5523051 By the way, this is the same reason peop[le loose their sense of smell with COVID. And I believe COVID is going to cause a rise in Parkinson's cases.
- giantg2 3y ago
  If the loss of smell is so brief, why would it cause this later?
  - FollowingTheDao 3y ago
    It might not. If the build up of alpha-synuclein is rapid during COVID that might only cause a temporary issue if the person can still break it down. These people might not go on to get Parkinson's. Matrix metalloproteinases break down alpha-synuclein. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21330369/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21330369/ And it's cofactor, the metal that increases MMP3 activity is zinc (and calcium). https://www.uniprot.org/uniprotkb/P08254/entry https://www.uniprot.org/uniprotkb/P08254/entry This is why I keep screaming that zinc is probably a central deficiency to both of these disorders in some people.
DrBazza 3y ago
Is this a consequence of the 'woman who can smell Parkinson's'? https://www.parkinsons.org.uk/news/meet-woman-who-can-smell-parkinsons https://www.parkinsons.org.uk/news/meet-woman-who-can-smell-...
aintgonnatakeit 3y ago
The first study has 3 patients. The second study is a little better, but not by much. Both have the same first author. If this were legitimate, some academic medical center in the US would have picked it up. Parkinson’s is a huge target, and this kind of thing makes a career. This is likely on the same level as horse dewormer for COVID.
- logicchains 3y ago
  >This is likely on the same level as horse dewormer for COVID You mean something that's demonstrated to have a statistically significant protective effect in a majority of studies but was attacked mercilessly by the pharma industry and the media they fund because they can't profit from a generic drug like that? https://c19ivm.org/meta.html https://c19ivm.org/meta.html
  - defrost 3y ago
    Looks great .. dive in (talk to your local professional epidemiologist) and it's a skewed collection of low N studies mixed in with studies in regions with large intestinal parasite issues. Does horse dewormer do anything significant for large populations in first world countries? No. (Save for regions with a intestinal parasite problem) Elsewhere it gets rid of a significant number of parasites, making people healthier, and improving their chances WRT everything else, the common cold, influenza, COVID, etc. If you have worms, take a dewormer course. If you don't .. it won't do diddly squat for COVID. Statistics!! (Sometimes there's correlation but that ain't always causal).
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - sixQuarks 3y ago
      [flagged]
      - defrost 3y ago
        Fair point, it's also effective against a wider range of parasites, head lice, eyelash mites, and skin conditions. In the case of COVID in populations sans those conditions .. not so much.
MontyCarloHall 3y ago
I wonder if there is any relation to the odorous biomarker that dogs can sniff out in Parkinson’s patients: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36054272/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36054272/
- gadders 3y ago
  First discovered by this Scottish woman being able to detect the smell herself https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/sep/07/woman-who-can-smell-parkinsons-helps-scientists-develop-test https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/sep/07/woman-who-ca...
peignoir 3y ago
I hope this will also help to advance the research on Lewy Bodies Dementia (also correlated by mis folded alpha synuclein
skottk 3y ago
Had to start researching this when a family member was recently diagnosed. Parkinson's has many forms and many causes. There's a big divide between Parkinson's _disease_ (idiopathic Parkinson's) and Parkinsonism from a variety of sources - stroke, drug-induced, and so on. There are also other conditions, like progressive supranuclear palsy, that are considered either to masquerade as Parkinsonism or to constitute another cause of Parkinsonism. Recommended treatments differ by the root cause of the symptoms. Some of the treatments that are recommended for one form may be contraindicated for other forms, or for different stages. For example, the recommended dopamine agonists are also the primary cause of Parkinson's hallucinations, so you have to trade back some strength and mobility if those start. Something like 80% of Parkinsonism derives from idiopathic Parkinson's Disease. Overall, it feels like we're really just getting started on these conditions. For decades, it's been thought to be primarily a motor disorder, but it turns out that there are scads of cognitive symptoms that develop years earlier than motor symptoms.
- TexanFeller 3y ago
  > Parkinson's has many forms and many causes. A lot of my family were farmers. I've had close relatives die with severe Parkinsons, primarily those that farmed their whole life. Their theory was that it was really exposure to a lot of toxic farm chemicals. I can imagine Parkinsons turning out to be several different conditions with similar symptoms.
  - felixyz 3y ago
    Certain pesticides are confirmed causes of Parkinsons. Don't remember which now, but could look it up.
    - TaupeRanger 3y ago
      No, none are "confirmed causes". There are mild associations between the use of certain pesticides and Parkinson's, but much lower than the overall genetic risk factors, and there's always the possibility of confounding factors in the studies.
athoun 3y ago
For those living in the bay area, you should know that the groundwater in many areas is contaminated with TCE due to computer manufacturing industry which used it as a solvent. Dry cleaners are another common culprit of contamination to the groundwater. These groundwater plumes can extend for quite a large distance from the original site of contamination and seep into the first story of residences and buildings through vapor intrusion. The TCE solvent is directly linked to Parkinsons [1]. Take a look at where you live on the California waterboard website [2] and look for nearby groundwater contamination sites. TCE / PCE contamination sites anywhere near your residence or workplace would put you at risk of getting Parkinsons. I know someone who got it and indeed they lived near a dry-cleaner that was leaching TCE into the groundwater decades ago. The solvent entires your residence through vapor intrusion, especially on the first floor or basement. [1] https://www.urmc.rochester.edu/news/story/common-dry-cleaning-chemical-linked-to-parkinsons-disease https://www.urmc.rochester.edu/news/story/common-dry-cleanin... [2] https://geotracker.waterboards.ca.gov/map/?CMD=runreport&myaddress=Search+GeoTracker https://geotracker.waterboards.ca.gov/map/?CMD=runreport&mya...
- m00dy 3y ago
  Why is still allowed to leach tce into groundwater
  - daniel_reetz 3y ago
    It's not allowed. These are old plumes and they stay around for a long time and are very expensive to clean up.
    - whamlastxmas 3y ago
      Cool, let’s make the companies that caused it pay for it
      - mrguyorama 3y ago
        That's clearly socialism and making companies pay for damage they cause and their externalaties is oppressive regulation. We should instead reduce the EPA's power until they are a shell of an organization. How else are we going to get our burning rivers back?
vrglvrglvrgl 3y ago
[dead]
bonnoechismar 3y ago
[flagged]

495 points by sandGorgon 3y ago

As I am now casually interested in the subject, what's a good resource to find out why this disease is hard to detect and cure and various other interesting facts?

pyryt 3y ago
[flagged]
- nequo 3y ago
  Why feed yourself with potential misinformation that you don’t know the true source of and you might never double check?
  - ethbr0 3y ago
    > Why feed yourself with potential misinformation that you don’t know the true source of and you might never double check? Because I enjoy reading HN?
    - nequo 3y ago
      When you run out of HN, do you hit up ChatGPT?
      - ethbr0 3y ago
        I ask ChatGPT to write me a comment thread in the style of Hacker News.
    - garyrob 3y ago
      Oh, that was just too easy... :)
  - insanitybit 3y ago
    As opposed to? Unless you're actually going to read individual papers, vet the authors, have the baseline statistical knowledge to understand the results, etc, you're always going to be susceptible to potential misinformation. This HN topic is a good example of the difficulty of verifying information. Who's to say that ChatGPT doesn't provide a better job of filtering it out?
    - nequo 3y ago
      Yes, I would start with Google Scholar, or at least Wikipedia because it tries to provide sources for each statement that it makes. > Who’s to say that ChatGPT doesn’t provide a better job of filtering it out? No one because no one knows what sources ChatGPT is blending together in its sentences.
      - kanzure 3y ago
        > I would start with Google Scholar You actually should vet everything you read through Google Scholar too. There is a pervasive belief of consensus in academic science and unfortunately individually verifying information is the only thing we know that actually works- not political consensus.
      - kfrzcode 3y ago
        [flagged]
        deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
        nequo 3y ago
        I am not trolling. I don’t recommend engaging in a good-faith dialogue with someone by prefacing it with your belief that they are trolling. If you're basing your trust in ChatGPT on the claim that it is trained on Wikipedia, you might as well read Wikipedia instead because then you also see the sources for each claim, or the fact that certain claims are unsourced. ChatGPT will not let you know if a certain claim is more controversial, nor give you further sources to read if you want to know the background of a claim.
- sph 3y ago
  Can we have a line on the HN guidelines saying "telling people you asked about <topic> on ChatGPT doesn't make for interesting discussion. Please refrain from doing so." Especially in this case where you don't even tell what did you find out, only that you did ask ChatGPT. Good for you.
  - nkotov 3y ago
    It's the new LMGTFY
    - sph 3y ago
      But posing as helpful instead of sarcastic, yet equally annoying.
Cthulhu_ 3y ago
A cursory browse of wikipedia is my first port of call, that's what chatgpt bases their answer on as well (what the other commenter pointed out). Yeah it's not verified etc, but it's more accessible than reading the sources it cites itself on.
parkersweb 3y ago
I’d recommend Rory Cellan Jones on Substack [1]. He was the technology correspondent for the BBC until a few years ago - and is now retired partly because of the onset of Parkinson’s. As a result he’s devoted much of his retirement to reporting on innovation in treating and managing Parkinson’s. [1] https://rorycellanjones.substack.com https://rorycellanjones.substack.com
photochemsyn 3y ago
One neglected issue in the article and the comments is that Parkinson's is associated with exposure to various neurotoxic substances including organophosphorous pesticides: https://academic.oup.com/ije/article/42/5/1476/623189 https://academic.oup.com/ije/article/42/5/1476/623189 > "In a population-based case-control study, we assessed frequency of household pesticide use for 357 cases and 807 controls... Frequent use of any household pesticide increased the odds of PD by 47% [odds ratio (OR) = 1.47, (95% confidence interval (CI): 1.13, 1.92)]; frequent use of products containing OPs increased the odds of PD more strongly by 71% [OR = 1.71, (95% CI: 1.21, 2.41)] and frequent organothiophosphate use almost doubled the odds of PD." This is further supported by previous discoveries of Parkinson's brought on by exposure to an opiate analog MPTP, as well as several other pesticides: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5345642/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5345642/ > "The identification of MPTP, a relatively simple compound which causes selective degeneration of the substantia nigra after systemic administration, has had an a significant impact on the understanding and treatment of Parkinson’s disease (PD) over the last 30 years." It's rather curious that this foundation neglects to discuss any of this, but it is funded by entities affiliated with pharmaceutical manufacturers so perhaps it's not something they want to bring attention to? It does fit with a general pattern of attempting to blame diseases affiliated with environmental exposures on genetics, however.
twic 3y ago
This might be useless to you, but OMIM is the canonical database of genetic diseases, and has tons of information: https://www.omim.org/entry/168600 https://www.omim.org/entry/168600 https://www.omim.org/entry/168601 https://www.omim.org/entry/168601

avazhi 3y ago

Not to unnecessarily shit on the parade, but I’m not sure this is by itself all that exciting, and calling it a breakthrough seems like an exaggeration. Diagnosing Parkinson’s isn’t really an issue - worst case you give the putative sufferer Levadopa and see if they respond. If they do, they’ve got Parkinson’s. Not sure how much this really changes the time horizon for an actual treatment. It’s progress, ostensibly, but I’d quibble with categorising it as a breakthrough.

fatfingerd 3y ago
Finding subtypes before clear symptoms is obviously superior for testing earlier intervention and allowing patients to make a living will with fuller faculties.
echelon 3y ago
> I’m not sure this is by itself all that exciting This actually seems pretty significant. 1) It gets us closer to understanding the pathology: >> It also suggests that alpha-synuclein aggregation in spinal fluid is not a life-long trait but rather acquired as part of a disease biology process that ultimately gives rise to symptoms. 2) It gives us a higher resolution of detection. >> αSyn-SAA can distinguish Parkinson’s from control volunteers with a stunningly robust sensitivity of 88 percent and specificity of 96 percent. 3) It shows different disease subtypes or mechanisms: >> These results suggest that not all cases of clinical Parkinson’s symptoms are associated with the accumulation of alpha-synuclein aggregates as detected by this assay, and that LRRK2 variant carriers, in particular, may not show this pathology. 4) It gets us earlier signal: >> This finding suggests that synuclein pathology could be detectable by this assay earlier than dopamine dysfunction is seen with DAT imaging, extending the window in which it may be possible to intervene with preventive therapies. This is a valuable tool that will shed light on the entire disease pathology and guide further research and investigation into treatments.
threeseed 3y ago
They are working towards not requiring spinal fluid for the test. So it's possible that it could end up being a non-invasive test that could be done at regular intervals early in life. Especially given that 15% of people with Parkinson's have a family history.

nailer 3y ago

On a tangent, they also know the enzyme that causes SIDS and should have a testing program in place soon.

CoastalCoder 3y ago
This sounds really interesting! Can you provide a link to more info?
- meindnoch 3y ago
  "A 2022 study found that infants who died of SIDS exhibited significantly lower specific activity of butyrylcholinesterase, an enzyme involved in the brain's arousal pathway, shortly after birth. This can serve as a biomarker to identify infants with a potential autonomic cholinergic dysfunction and elevated risk for SIDS." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SIDS https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SIDS
  - giantg2 3y ago
    Maybe this can stop the false prosecutions too. Or would they not be able to measure the enzymes in an autopsy?
    - jpk2f2 3y ago
      May help, but it's still only one (potential) cause of SIDS. SIDS encompasses a wide variety of risk factors. For example, heart pathologies are another common cause of SIDS. Additionally, stomach sleeping and inadvertent suffocation are other common risk factors.

DavidPeiffer 3y ago

If anyone wants to help the cause, PPMI is a large scale study funded by the Michael J Fox Foundation to help find early biomarkers. Even if you have no history of Parkinson’s in your family, you can participate in the study which is primarily surveys. It's easy to participate, and can help find more early indications of a horrible disease. https://www.michaeljfox.org/ppmi-clinical-study https://www.michaeljfox.org/ppmi-clinical-study

mahmoudhossam 3y ago
Unfortunately US and Canada residents only for now.
- timbit42 3y ago
  Appears to be US only right now.

lambdaba 3y ago

I just found out about Thiamine (vitamin B1) megadose therapy for Parkinson's: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3762356/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3762356/ Another study: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26505466/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26505466/ > Conclusions: Administration of parenteral high-dose thiamine was effective in reversing PD motor and nonmotor symptoms. The clinical improvement was stable over time in all the patients. From our clinical evidence, we hypothesize that a dysfunction of thiamine-dependent metabolic processes could cause selective neural damage in the centers typically affected by this disease and might be a fundamental molecular event provoking neurodegeneration. Thiamine could have both restorative and neuroprotective action in PD. This experience report of halting Parkinson's: https://youtu.be/iuSOQOTyB9w https://youtu.be/iuSOQOTyB9w

surume 3y ago
God bless you for sharing this. Thank you.
jtbayly 3y ago
If this Was discovered 10 years ago, I’m assuming it must be fairly limited in helping, or the results haven’t lasted or something?
- Mizza 3y ago
  The cynic in me assumes that it's because this is not a patentable drug. EDIT: MJF foundation is aware of it at least - https://www.michaeljfox.org/news/thiamine-vitamin-b1-and-parkinsons https://www.michaeljfox.org/news/thiamine-vitamin-b1-and-par..., but points out problems with the study. Further Googling quickly leads to the usual quackery about the magical properties of different supplements and vitamins. Hope this goes somewhere though.
  - _qua 3y ago
    No way. About five years ago there was a quack-y study about reducing death in sepsis which called for high-dose vitamin C, thiamine and steroids. None of these are patent protected. The first study purported to show a 100% reduction in mortality. There were many RCTs done after this which did not bear out the effect, and it has now essentially been proven to be ineffective. it is possible to fund studies without industry money.

c3534l 3y ago

My grandmother had Parkinson's and it was awful. How long until I can go to the doctor, get some blood drawn, and see if I'll develop it one day?

PaulKeeble 3y ago
You could do a genetic test, Parkinsons has well associated genetic markers and consumer level companies can do testing of this (and others). 23 and me have a bit on it. https://www.23andme.com/topics/health-predispositions/parkinsons-disease/ https://www.23andme.com/topics/health-predispositions/parkin...
- Palomides 3y ago
  it's not a trivially heritable disease, genetic testing can't tell you with any real confidence if you'll develop symptoms edit: you may be able to contact a parkinson's genetics counselor specialist which may be more useful
- mtlmtlmtlmtl 3y ago
  Although if 23andme say you don't have the genes, you might still have them. Also they'll probably sell your data.
EvanAnderson 3y ago
What would you do if you found out you would? (I ask as someone whose great-grandfather, great-uncle, and grandfather all had Parkinson’s.) I’ve avoided any testing because, as far as I know, there’s nothing preventative to be done. I’d love to hear otherwise. I’ve broached the subject with my last two primary care physicians and both advised that there was no point in knowing.
- melling 3y ago
  Yes, the age old debate of knowing versus not knowing. I think I’ll skip it because it’s not productive. However, I will point out that your average billionaire with a few decades of advanced notice might be willing to fund research: https://www.forbes.com/sites/kerryadolan/2022/12/09/exclusive-google-cofounder-sergey-brin-has-quietly-donated-more-than-1-billion-toward-this-one-specific-disease/?sh=5c972b8c4d59 https://www.forbes.com/sites/kerryadolan/2022/12/09/exclusiv...

shadowtree 3y ago

Interesting that big flu outbreaks cause a long term spike in Parkinson's - how much more will be traced back to the impact of viruses? Saw that come up as a worry around Covid, seems the loss of smell/taste is a commonality with Parkison. We will not know for a decade or two though, but these biomarkers might help accelerate measuring the impact.

graeme 3y ago
It’s very plausible in 10-20 years or so. Studies found a massive increase in acting out of dreams amongst those who had Covid. This acting out of dreams is a very strong precursor to Parkinson’s. According to this, 80% of people with it get Parkinson’s within 20 years. https://www.salon.com/2023/04/24/long-parkinsons/ https://www.salon.com/2023/04/24/long-parkinsons/
- yosito 3y ago
  Well that certainly puts a dark twist on the phrase "living the dream".
Workaccount2 3y ago
I am currently struggling with the idea of going back to vaping, having quit 3 years ago following covid, because nicotine has consistently shown to be a strong drug for fending off parkinsons.
- sbmsr 3y ago
  Would nicotine patches help?
  - Workaccount2 3y ago
    I could do that, but I smoked cigarettes for 7 years and then vaped for 9 years. So I don't know if I could jump back into nicotine but hold off on the smoking/vaping aspect of it.

FollowingTheDao 3y ago

This is everything and nothing all at once. Synucleinopathies are found in many neurological diseases. They even find it in Long COVID. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9108014/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9108014/ This is a marker for many diseases. They still have not found the trigger for Synucleinopathies, which I believe is a nutrient deficiency causing oxidative stress and zinc is at the top of my list. https://academic.oup.com/hmg/article/23/11/2791/621896 https://academic.oup.com/hmg/article/23/11/2791/621896 https://academic.oup.com/brain/article/142/8/2380/5523051 https://academic.oup.com/brain/article/142/8/2380/5523051 By the way, this is the same reason peop[le loose their sense of smell with COVID. And I believe COVID is going to cause a rise in Parkinson's cases.

giantg2 3y ago
If the loss of smell is so brief, why would it cause this later?
- FollowingTheDao 3y ago
  It might not. If the build up of alpha-synuclein is rapid during COVID that might only cause a temporary issue if the person can still break it down. These people might not go on to get Parkinson's. Matrix metalloproteinases break down alpha-synuclein. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21330369/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21330369/ And it's cofactor, the metal that increases MMP3 activity is zinc (and calcium). https://www.uniprot.org/uniprotkb/P08254/entry https://www.uniprot.org/uniprotkb/P08254/entry This is why I keep screaming that zinc is probably a central deficiency to both of these disorders in some people.

DrBazza 3y ago

Is this a consequence of the 'woman who can smell Parkinson's'? https://www.parkinsons.org.uk/news/meet-woman-who-can-smell-parkinsons https://www.parkinsons.org.uk/news/meet-woman-who-can-smell-...

aintgonnatakeit 3y ago

The first study has 3 patients. The second study is a little better, but not by much. Both have the same first author. If this were legitimate, some academic medical center in the US would have picked it up. Parkinson’s is a huge target, and this kind of thing makes a career. This is likely on the same level as horse dewormer for COVID.

logicchains 3y ago
>This is likely on the same level as horse dewormer for COVID You mean something that's demonstrated to have a statistically significant protective effect in a majority of studies but was attacked mercilessly by the pharma industry and the media they fund because they can't profit from a generic drug like that? https://c19ivm.org/meta.html https://c19ivm.org/meta.html
- defrost 3y ago
  Looks great .. dive in (talk to your local professional epidemiologist) and it's a skewed collection of low N studies mixed in with studies in regions with large intestinal parasite issues. Does horse dewormer do anything significant for large populations in first world countries? No. (Save for regions with a intestinal parasite problem) Elsewhere it gets rid of a significant number of parasites, making people healthier, and improving their chances WRT everything else, the common cold, influenza, COVID, etc. If you have worms, take a dewormer course. If you don't .. it won't do diddly squat for COVID. Statistics!! (Sometimes there's correlation but that ain't always causal).
  - deleted 3y ago
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  - sixQuarks 3y ago
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    - defrost 3y ago
      Fair point, it's also effective against a wider range of parasites, head lice, eyelash mites, and skin conditions. In the case of COVID in populations sans those conditions .. not so much.

MontyCarloHall 3y ago

I wonder if there is any relation to the odorous biomarker that dogs can sniff out in Parkinson’s patients: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36054272/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36054272/

gadders 3y ago
First discovered by this Scottish woman being able to detect the smell herself https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/sep/07/woman-who-can-smell-parkinsons-helps-scientists-develop-test https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/sep/07/woman-who-ca...

peignoir 3y ago

I hope this will also help to advance the research on Lewy Bodies Dementia (also correlated by mis folded alpha synuclein

skottk 3y ago

Had to start researching this when a family member was recently diagnosed. Parkinson's has many forms and many causes. There's a big divide between Parkinson's _disease_ (idiopathic Parkinson's) and Parkinsonism from a variety of sources - stroke, drug-induced, and so on. There are also other conditions, like progressive supranuclear palsy, that are considered either to masquerade as Parkinsonism or to constitute another cause of Parkinsonism. Recommended treatments differ by the root cause of the symptoms. Some of the treatments that are recommended for one form may be contraindicated for other forms, or for different stages. For example, the recommended dopamine agonists are also the primary cause of Parkinson's hallucinations, so you have to trade back some strength and mobility if those start. Something like 80% of Parkinsonism derives from idiopathic Parkinson's Disease. Overall, it feels like we're really just getting started on these conditions. For decades, it's been thought to be primarily a motor disorder, but it turns out that there are scads of cognitive symptoms that develop years earlier than motor symptoms.

TexanFeller 3y ago
> Parkinson's has many forms and many causes. A lot of my family were farmers. I've had close relatives die with severe Parkinsons, primarily those that farmed their whole life. Their theory was that it was really exposure to a lot of toxic farm chemicals. I can imagine Parkinsons turning out to be several different conditions with similar symptoms.
- felixyz 3y ago
  Certain pesticides are confirmed causes of Parkinsons. Don't remember which now, but could look it up.
  - TaupeRanger 3y ago
    No, none are "confirmed causes". There are mild associations between the use of certain pesticides and Parkinson's, but much lower than the overall genetic risk factors, and there's always the possibility of confounding factors in the studies.

athoun 3y ago

For those living in the bay area, you should know that the groundwater in many areas is contaminated with TCE due to computer manufacturing industry which used it as a solvent. Dry cleaners are another common culprit of contamination to the groundwater. These groundwater plumes can extend for quite a large distance from the original site of contamination and seep into the first story of residences and buildings through vapor intrusion. The TCE solvent is directly linked to Parkinsons [1]. Take a look at where you live on the California waterboard website [2] and look for nearby groundwater contamination sites. TCE / PCE contamination sites anywhere near your residence or workplace would put you at risk of getting Parkinsons. I know someone who got it and indeed they lived near a dry-cleaner that was leaching TCE into the groundwater decades ago. The solvent entires your residence through vapor intrusion, especially on the first floor or basement. [1] https://www.urmc.rochester.edu/news/story/common-dry-cleaning-chemical-linked-to-parkinsons-disease https://www.urmc.rochester.edu/news/story/common-dry-cleanin... [2] https://geotracker.waterboards.ca.gov/map/?CMD=runreport&myaddress=Search+GeoTracker https://geotracker.waterboards.ca.gov/map/?CMD=runreport&mya...

m00dy 3y ago
Why is still allowed to leach tce into groundwater
- daniel_reetz 3y ago
  It's not allowed. These are old plumes and they stay around for a long time and are very expensive to clean up.
  - whamlastxmas 3y ago
    Cool, let’s make the companies that caused it pay for it
    - mrguyorama 3y ago
      That's clearly socialism and making companies pay for damage they cause and their externalaties is oppressive regulation. We should instead reduce the EPA's power until they are a shell of an organization. How else are we going to get our burning rivers back?

vrglvrglvrgl 3y ago

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bonnoechismar 3y ago

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