4 ms·

It's not entirely the economic system, other than women no having careers after giving birth. It's more the social system, and the fact that younger women don'

It's not entirely the economic system, other than women no having careers after giving birth. It's more the social system, and the fact that younger women don't want to seem to want to play anymore. Educated women pretty much anywhere in the world tend to have fewer children, fewer still if the economic costs and penalties increase. The government has to decide that children are desired, the social compact has to be rewritten to improve the position of women (from broodmare/housemother to coequal partner) and then the country needs a bit of good luck. There's still 10's of millions of them there, so they have time to piddle about "deciding and choosing" what to do. Perhaps this is a good example of the downside of social nationalism in a world that intercommunicates so quickly and so effectively?

yutijke 4y ago
Aren't countries like Japan or South Korea known for gruelling work hours? I think the economic system itself is not conducive for healthy families where both parents get sufficient time to spend with kids or family. In the past this may have been papered over with the cultural expectation that the woman takes care of the house and family and the man works, but this cultural framework has been broken and done away with without any replacement, cultural or economical.
- satvikpendem 4y ago
  In places like Denmark and Norway with good healthcare and childcare, people are still not having kids.
  - SXX 4y ago
    Both countries are still very expensive to live in. And at least Denmark have really high taxes up to ~60%.
    - satvikpendem 4y ago
      The taxes pay for the healthcare and childcare of course, so even with those benefits if people are still not having kids, it's not the economy but the fact that people simply don't want to.
      - slaw 4y ago
        The taxes make having kids even more expensive.
        reacharavindh 4y ago
        Source: lived in Denmark as an expat and had a kid while there. It is common misconception that you pay > 50% tax in DK. It is progressive % just like many other countries. You end up paying high percentages only on the pay that exceeds the average pay scales. Taxes, are still higher, but consider that you get a well educated society(education is free, and you even get paid to go to university), you get a society where healthcare is high quality and free, you don’t see people in the street because they got sick.. and many many more. Having a child is so heavily incentivised in all the right ways. Example(day care for your child is right and not a privilege, and the government subsidises the cost). The social system around families help even setting up a Facebook group of willing parents in your neighbourhood that happen to have similar age group kids. Kids welfare are put to the highest standards. Just writing here to help people overcome false assumptions.
    - seanmcdirmid 4y ago
      > And at least Denmark have really high taxes up to ~60%. It’s more useful to talk about marginal tax rates, otherwise you get situations where someone can pay more state income tax in a low tax state like Alabama than California even though California has a higher top marginal tax rate.
slaw 4y ago
Women want to postpone giving birth after they try carriers. Once they succeeds or fails they want to have children, but very often at that time they are too old. If country would give incentive that it covers cost of child rising, many women would probably decide to have children.

yutijke 4y ago

Aren't countries like Japan or South Korea known for gruelling work hours? I think the economic system itself is not conducive for healthy families where both parents get sufficient time to spend with kids or family. In the past this may have been papered over with the cultural expectation that the woman takes care of the house and family and the man works, but this cultural framework has been broken and done away with without any replacement, cultural or economical.

satvikpendem 4y ago
In places like Denmark and Norway with good healthcare and childcare, people are still not having kids.
- SXX 4y ago
  Both countries are still very expensive to live in. And at least Denmark have really high taxes up to ~60%.
  - satvikpendem 4y ago
    The taxes pay for the healthcare and childcare of course, so even with those benefits if people are still not having kids, it's not the economy but the fact that people simply don't want to.
    - slaw 4y ago
      The taxes make having kids even more expensive.
      - reacharavindh 4y ago
        Source: lived in Denmark as an expat and had a kid while there. It is common misconception that you pay > 50% tax in DK. It is progressive % just like many other countries. You end up paying high percentages only on the pay that exceeds the average pay scales. Taxes, are still higher, but consider that you get a well educated society(education is free, and you even get paid to go to university), you get a society where healthcare is high quality and free, you don’t see people in the street because they got sick.. and many many more. Having a child is so heavily incentivised in all the right ways. Example(day care for your child is right and not a privilege, and the government subsidises the cost). The social system around families help even setting up a Facebook group of willing parents in your neighbourhood that happen to have similar age group kids. Kids welfare are put to the highest standards. Just writing here to help people overcome false assumptions.
  - seanmcdirmid 4y ago
    > And at least Denmark have really high taxes up to ~60%. It’s more useful to talk about marginal tax rates, otherwise you get situations where someone can pay more state income tax in a low tax state like Alabama than California even though California has a higher top marginal tax rate.

slaw 4y ago

Women want to postpone giving birth after they try carriers. Once they succeeds or fails they want to have children, but very often at that time they are too old. If country would give incentive that it covers cost of child rising, many women would probably decide to have children.