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> A legacy of the Pinochet era in Chile is the privatisation of minerals and water, which gives companies ownership of those resources in an area. While mining
by botanical 3y ago
> A legacy of the Pinochet era in Chile is the privatisation of minerals and water, which gives companies ownership of those resources in an area. While mining operations squeeze this already dry region even drier, communities lose their access to potable water, leaving them relying on tankers to deliver it.
“We used to have a river before that now doesn’t exist. There isn’t a drop of water,” says Rivera. “And not only here in Copiapó but in all of Chile, there are rivers and lakes that have disappeared—all because a company has a lot more right to water than we do as human beings or citizens of Chile.”
https://www.nrdc.org/stories/lithium-mining-leaving-chiles-indigenous-communities-high-and-dry-literally https://www.nrdc.org/stories/lithium-mining-leaving-chiles-i...
And this is in Chile, the second largest producer of lithium. Just because it goes against your views it being anti-EV, doesn't make it FUD. People have other types of grievances like the human cost of lithium mining, even for the amazing storage capability of lithium batteries.
- theK 3y agoI don’t want to disagree with you because I agree on principle with what you are saying but this case you describe has nothing to do with EVs and everything to do with neoliberalism.
- theK 3y agoInteresting, I never thought that I’d get downvoted for stating a fact here
- kranke155 3y agoChile has just nationalised lithium I believe
- defrost 3y agoThey've announced plans to do so and those plans have issues and wil take time: > While Chile's plan to take control of its lithium industry has caused global shockwaves, state-led production of the metal used to make electric vehicle batteries is seen by analysts as likely years away given technical and political challenges. ~ Reuters
- rmujica 3y agoWrong. Lithium in Chile was nationalized in the 1980s by Pinochet. Lithium extraction and processing has been granted to privates in long term contracts that will continue to be valid but will not be renewed, and new mines will be owned directly by the state.
- longemen3000 3y ago"Fun" fact about that, it was nationalized because it is a material for use in atomic bombs, in the 70 and 80 there wasn't another use for large scale lithium mining, except for that
- marcusverus 3y agoYour article is pretending that the water access issues are caused by lithium mining. This is a specious argument that only makes sense because they omitted the obviously pertinent fact that Chile is in the grip of a decade-long drought. That's FUD, my dude.
- giantg2 3y ago"That's FUD, my dude." Only if you explain it the way you just did. The fact is, instead of restricting water usage related to lithium mining, they'd rather let the river run dry. While the drough is a major factor, so too is how the regulations allow the continued abuse of the limited resource.
- robertlagrant 3y agoIf lithium mining brings in money to buy water and other things as well, then it's not great, but it's probably the better choice.
- giantg2 3y agoTrue, but are they actually offsetting the negarive costs by doing things like that, or are the companies protecting their profits?
- robertlagrant 3y agoIt's speculation at this point. Just depends on whether people think the water cost of lithium mining is more than the sale price of the lithium. Either that or the government isn't doing its job.
- djbusby 3y agoWhy don't the mining company buy+ship the water then and leave the river alone?
- AmpsterMan 3y agoIf Chile is undergoing a drought, are there not ethical considerations for prioritizing water for the benefit of the public rather than for manufacturing?
- AzzieElbab 3y agoAs a former citizen of the USSR, I have to object to linking environmental issues to private property. The Soviets did all kinds of tremendously bad things ranking, from geo-transformation to placing the heavy industry in the middle of cities. From what I read about North Korea, the entire country is ruined by various extraction and industrial projects.
- armenarmen 3y agoTragedy of the commons at scale.
- AmpsterMan 3y agoThe important part is the "complete ownership of those rights". In the Soviet Union, a community had no rights and little power by ways of representative government to defend themselves. It's little different in the case of Chile. Do the nuances of state/corporate ownership of resources mean anything when they are both large, far off organizations exploiting my land with little of my own say?
- Gibbon1 3y agoThe problem is when you can externalize problems with impunity. Doesn't really matter what the basic system is. Generally you find that systems that strip individuals or disfavored groups from having any power at all do that a lot. Especially those where pushing back is dangerous.
- 13of40 3y agoNot saying you're wrong, but I'd like to share my own take, which is that one of the clearest, bluest skies I've ever seen was over North Korea. Because they sucked at doing "industry" compared to the South Koreans. In the 90s in South Korea, the rivers ran black and every corner you turned had its own putrid chemical smell from whatever fly-by-night entrepraneur had found a way to make a buck there. But that's an anecdote and I haven't been back to see what it's like now.
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- vegetablepotpie 3y agoLithium is not the only cause of aquifer depletion in Chile, avocado farms have also been responsible for depleting the wells of residents [1]. These outcomes, as the article alludes to, are due to the privatization of resource rights, which is a consequence of Pinochet government going all in on the policies Milton Friedman promoted [2]. Citizens of Chile are more victims of neoliberalism than they are of any particular industry. [1] https://www.lifegate.com/avocado-chile-water https://www.lifegate.com/avocado-chile-water [2] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miracle_of_Chile https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miracle_of_Chile
- jdkoeck 3y agoFrom wikipedia: « In 2010, Chile was the first nation in South America to win membership in the Organization of Economic Cooperation and Development, an organization restricted to the world's richest countries » Victims of neoliberalism you say?
- meristohm 3y agoI would say the USA (where I grew up and still live, which doesn't make me a expert, mind- these are mostly just feelings) is also a victim of neoliberalism[0], and that people who revere President Reagan (USA) and Prime Minister Thatcher (UK) are generally selfish and inconsiderate of (what I see as) the importance of other life on earth whether or not we can directly benefit from it. [0] https://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoliberalism https://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoliberalism
- tmtvl 3y agoSpeaking of Maggie... > What we are now doing to the world... is new in the experience of the Earth. It is mankind and his activities that are changing the environment of our planet in damaging and dangerous ways. The result is that change in future is likely to be more fundamental and more widespread than anything we have known hitherto. Change to the sea around us, change to the atmosphere above, leading in turn to change in the world's climate, which could alter the way we live in the most fundamental way of all. > The environmental challenge that confronts the whole world demands an equivalent response from the whole world. Every country will be affected and no one can opt out. Those countries who are industrialised must contribute more to help those who are not. -The Baroness Thatcher
- chaostheory 3y ago> We used to have a river before that now doesn’t exist. There isn’t a drop of water,” says Rivera. “And not only here in Copiapó but in all of Chile, there are rivers and lakes that have disappeared It’s more likely that climate change was responsible for this problem.
- Robotbeat 3y agoAnd now they’re nationalizing it. Happy? Or will the goalposts move to some other totally out of proportion fake scandal? https://foreignpolicy.com/2023/04/21/chile-lithium-reserves-albemarle-sqm-nationalize-boric-santiago/ https://foreignpolicy.com/2023/04/21/chile-lithium-reserves-...
- kortilla 3y agoWhat you just described is a failure of government to setup appropriate water rights. It has nothing to do with mining. The same exact thing happens with agriculture.
- marsven_422 3y ago[dead]