4 ms·

I'd have to assume that this could include anything from what they felt was some amount of coercion or pressure to have sex up to rape.

Planktonne 3y ago
'Some amount of pressure or coercion' is still rape; no matter how you use language to minimise it, it adds an amount of 'non-' to the 'consenual'.
- bobitsaboy 3y ago
  Not going to play semantics here. There is definitely a different level of trauma for a person to experience for something they are physically forced or threatened by force to endure than something they are convinced to do even if they would have otherwise not. It's insulting to victims of the former to pretend otherwise.
  - throwaway290 3y ago
    Valid point, but we are talking about those very victims you are worried about insulting here. Girls who were physically forced to have sex. And to reply to those who say that boys are also raped, yes. But only 4% of males reported that.
  - Planktonne 3y ago
    Sure, there are different levels of trauma in different incidents. That doesn't make the less-obviously traumatic incidents okay; they're still very bad. > It's insulting to victims of the former to pretend otherwise. There's nothing insulting to victims in acknowledging other victims. There is something extremely insulting to victims in refusing to acknowledge any harm to them if it doesn't meet your arbitrary standard for significance.
- CipherThrowaway 3y ago
  I have the lower sex drive in my relationships and experience a concomitant pressure to have sex when I don't want to. I'll often say yes to avoid a fight, avoid upsetting my partner or to stop them from nagging me. This has never seemed like a big deal to me although it is sometimes a nuisance. How does this square with your PoV? Is it rape? Maybe it doesn't count as "real" pressure? I'm not trying to minimize the issue or trip you up here. There is obviously enough coercive and violent SA taking place for it to be a major social issue no matter how broad the definition is. I'm trying to figure out how pressure as a sufficient condition for rape squares with the lived experience of people like myself who do frequently feel pressure to have sex.
  - Planktonne 3y ago
    Your partner shouldn't be pressuring you into having sex; that's wrong of them, and you deserve better. Coerced consent isn't consent [1]; the fact that there are different levels of violence and pressure involved in some cases of coercion doesn't mean that the less-obvious levels are okay. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yUafzOXHPE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yUafzOXHPE
    - CipherThrowaway 3y ago
      If I took this attitude then I'd be excluding myself from relationships that are a net positive in my life. Mismatched sex drive is genuinely not a big deal for me. Often we're both on the same page and that's great. But when we're not, it's not a huge deal for me to have sex I don't want just to keep the peace. In my view, it's no different to other forms of compromise and sacrifice in relationships. Furthermore I think this is common in relationships. To maintain a stable relationship, low libido partners often do have to "make an effort" and manage some of the pressure that comes from dating a higher libido partner. IMO in an ideal world there would never be any pressure or obligation associated with any interaction. But in the real world, "okay" must have a wide enough margin to include situations that aren't ideal but are limited in terms of harm caused and moral responsibility of participants. It can't be that I am a rape victim for not wanting to hurt my partners feelings by sexually rejecting them. Some pressure is surely okay.
orwin 3y ago
You can not assume and look at the questions that were asked. >Have you ever been physically forced to have sexual intercourse when you did not want to? There, so you won't have to assume wrongly. Sorry about the snark but my sister was raped 4 years ago. The rapist is still free. At least his daughter (same age as my sister) know about it.

Planktonne 3y ago

'Some amount of pressure or coercion' is still rape; no matter how you use language to minimise it, it adds an amount of 'non-' to the 'consenual'.

bobitsaboy 3y ago
Not going to play semantics here. There is definitely a different level of trauma for a person to experience for something they are physically forced or threatened by force to endure than something they are convinced to do even if they would have otherwise not. It's insulting to victims of the former to pretend otherwise.
- throwaway290 3y ago
  Valid point, but we are talking about those very victims you are worried about insulting here. Girls who were physically forced to have sex. And to reply to those who say that boys are also raped, yes. But only 4% of males reported that.
- Planktonne 3y ago
  Sure, there are different levels of trauma in different incidents. That doesn't make the less-obviously traumatic incidents okay; they're still very bad. > It's insulting to victims of the former to pretend otherwise. There's nothing insulting to victims in acknowledging other victims. There is something extremely insulting to victims in refusing to acknowledge any harm to them if it doesn't meet your arbitrary standard for significance.
CipherThrowaway 3y ago
I have the lower sex drive in my relationships and experience a concomitant pressure to have sex when I don't want to. I'll often say yes to avoid a fight, avoid upsetting my partner or to stop them from nagging me. This has never seemed like a big deal to me although it is sometimes a nuisance. How does this square with your PoV? Is it rape? Maybe it doesn't count as "real" pressure? I'm not trying to minimize the issue or trip you up here. There is obviously enough coercive and violent SA taking place for it to be a major social issue no matter how broad the definition is. I'm trying to figure out how pressure as a sufficient condition for rape squares with the lived experience of people like myself who do frequently feel pressure to have sex.
- Planktonne 3y ago
  Your partner shouldn't be pressuring you into having sex; that's wrong of them, and you deserve better. Coerced consent isn't consent [1]; the fact that there are different levels of violence and pressure involved in some cases of coercion doesn't mean that the less-obvious levels are okay. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yUafzOXHPE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yUafzOXHPE
  - CipherThrowaway 3y ago
    If I took this attitude then I'd be excluding myself from relationships that are a net positive in my life. Mismatched sex drive is genuinely not a big deal for me. Often we're both on the same page and that's great. But when we're not, it's not a huge deal for me to have sex I don't want just to keep the peace. In my view, it's no different to other forms of compromise and sacrifice in relationships. Furthermore I think this is common in relationships. To maintain a stable relationship, low libido partners often do have to "make an effort" and manage some of the pressure that comes from dating a higher libido partner. IMO in an ideal world there would never be any pressure or obligation associated with any interaction. But in the real world, "okay" must have a wide enough margin to include situations that aren't ideal but are limited in terms of harm caused and moral responsibility of participants. It can't be that I am a rape victim for not wanting to hurt my partners feelings by sexually rejecting them. Some pressure is surely okay.

orwin 3y ago

You can not assume and look at the questions that were asked. >Have you ever been physically forced to have sexual intercourse when you did not want to? There, so you won't have to assume wrongly. Sorry about the snark but my sister was raped 4 years ago. The rapist is still free. At least his daughter (same age as my sister) know about it.