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I've had to deal with difficult landlords a handful of times and I'd say the common thread is that they expect you, the tenant, to not understand your rights an

I've had to deal with difficult landlords a handful of times and I'd say the common thread is that they expect you, the tenant, to not understand your rights and the laws that enforce those rights. This is especially the case in low-quality housing units near universities, where students generally don't live in a single place for more than a year or two. For example, one time a landlord didn't return the security deposit. I called him, messaged him, left notes in his mailbox. No reply. One month, two months went by. So, I looked up the relevant legal code, found the part that said "landlords have 30 days to return the security deposit with any deductions listed. Failure to do so results in the landlord owing the tenant double the original amount with no deductions." I printed that out, highlighted the relevant section, and mailed him a letter saying that he can return the original deposit amount to me immediately, or I will file at the local court and he'll owe me double. I got a check in the mail two days later.

qwertox 4y ago
> that they expect you, the tenant, to not understand your rights and the laws that enforce those rights It could well be that they themselves don't understand your rights. Sure, in the case of the security deposit, they should be smart enough to know what this is. But many landlords are just normal people with other jobs, where being a landlord is not a job to them, but an opportunity to earn money by renting. While one should be able to expect them to know the relevant laws, I bet that most of them don't care to bother because of the time and effort it takes.
- Fnoord 4y ago
  They have a business, too: being a landlord. How about taking your business serious and not get in legal issues with your customer(s)?
- sametmax 4y ago
  Yes but in that case, they at least answer to you and you can have a human to human discussion.
- vinnic 4y ago
  > But many landlords are just normal people with other jobs, where being a landlord is not a job to them, but an opportunity to earn money by renting. That's no excuse for not returning a tenant's security deposit though.
  - detourdog 4y ago
    The regulations on security deposit in Massachusetts has led me to not use security deposits. I also don’t use a lease. A tenant can come and go from month to month. I only require first and last months rent.
    - analog31 4y ago
      Are you concerned about squatters rights?
      - detourdog 4y ago
        Fundamentally I would like to be able to trust the people I'm dealing with where a contract isn't needed and it all works out. I don't have a lot of faith in a contract really satisfying any of my needs. I feel a contract with its specifics and each sides personal interpretation can distract from disputer resolution. Squatters are my biggest fear. I feel it is a justified fear. I also am happy to offer anyone a lease that requests one. I don't want to mindlessly use one. Live and learn they say:)
        analog31 4y ago
        I appreciate the sentiment, but your tenants might have rights that you don't know about. These may vary depending on your locale, and may include restrictions on evictions of tenants who don't have written leases.
        detourdog 4y ago
        I give my tenants this as part of the move in documentation. https://www.mass.gov/guides/the-attorney-generals-guide-to-landlord-and-tenant-rights https://www.mass.gov/guides/the-attorney-generals-guide-to-l... This was the document I used to shape my thinking and since I have more than 5 units (8 units total) I'm inspected by my town officials every 2 years to assure the livability. I see the whole relationship as reciprocal and hope to avoid evictions. I do no credit checks and I do my own internet research. I place a lot of value on the personal interactions and so far I have had good fortune.
- harvey9 4y ago
  Sure. No big deal if they don't know about fire safety either, not like it's their real job anyway.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - fuzzybiscuit 4y ago
    [flagged]
  - DANmode 4y ago
    The commenter may or may not feel it's correct, but I didn't see that in their comment.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- nvarsj 4y ago
  That's precisely the problem with many landlords. Being a landlord is not free money without any work, even though many think it is.
  - kevviiinn 4y ago
    That doesn't stop many of them from taking your money while not doing work
- ilyt 4y ago
  > But many landlords are just normal people with other jobs, where being a landlord is not a job to them, but an opportunity to earn money by renting. While one should be able to expect them to know the relevant laws, I bet that most of them don't care to bother because of the time and effort it takes. ...so ? They earn money for doing essentially nothing, the least they should do is to know the law.
  - fuzzybiscuit 4y ago
    [flagged]
  - qwertox 4y ago
    I fully agree with this. But I just intended to point out that "they expect you, the tenant, to not understand your rights and the laws that enforce those rights" is not the only reason. While I am no landlord, I have relatives who are and they don't care about the law. It's something you they will be made aware of when it arises and then dealt with accordingly. Take the example of GP's post, he kindly did the research for his ex-landlord until he convinced him. His ex-landlord may now see himself confirmed in that his approach to not caring is the right one, until the ex-renter brings up a very valid point.
    - blululu 4y ago
      You are giving very charitable interpretation to someone who was clearly withholding the full security deposit for two months past the due in flagrant violation of the law and common sense. He didn't even fully comply with the law when it was shown to him. At two months past due, he would have been required to pay double for late payment, and the OP was generous in not enforcing the law to its full extent. Given the asymmetry between the number of instances where a renter and a landlord will need to engage in this transaction, it is hard to extend the same leeway to someone who does this transaction for multiple units that we might afford someone doing this for one unit. If anything I would suspect that the landlord in question is a repeat offender.
    - ilyt 4y ago
      > Take the example of GP's post, he kindly did the research for his ex-landlord until he convinced him. His ex-landlord may now see himself confirmed in that his approach to not caring is the right one, until the ex-renter brings up a very valid point. I HIGHLY doubt land-lord didn't knew the meaning of "security deposit" and didn't return it immediately "because he didn't knew the law", especially when he was clearly ignoring the former tenant. He most likely counted on people not bothering to get it back when being ignored
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- Intermernet 4y ago
  Being a landlord is a job. If you aren't aware of the requirements of the job, you shouldn't be allowed to have the job. If you break the law by not adhering to the requirements, you should be punished. If you have a history of breaking said laws, you should be banned from being a landlord.
- ohgodplsno 4y ago
  >But many landlords are just normal people with other jobs, where being a landlord is not a job to them, but an opportunity to earn money by renting Ah yes, the highly valuable-to-society job that is being a leech.
  - sethammons 4y ago
    s/being a leech/providing housing liquidity Not everyone should have to purchase a home to live.
    - ohgodplsno 4y ago
      Funnily enough, we do agree on that end result, but definitely not on the methods. Housing should be a right, and housing should be provided to any citizen of a country. Letting a small minority of wealthy land owners become more wealthy and centralizing home ownership is a sign of failing societies. A landlord does not "provide housing liquidity". Housing is not a good that I can live without. I'll die without a roof over my head. Profiting off of that is the behavior of a leech.
      - matchbok 4y ago
        Housing is not a human right. Do you have a right to force me to build you a house? Think about it. Why would we have any nice housing at all in that situation? Why would anyone build it? These silly things like "x is a human right" miss the point. At some point people have to take responsibility.
        ohgodplsno 4y ago
        >Do you have a right to force me to build you a house? Me ? No. Us, as a society, where we decide to ? Abso-fucking-lutely. >Why would we have any nice housing at all in that situation? Why would anyone build it? Nothing prevents you from putting in more money to make yourself the fancy house you've dreamed of. You can decide to give 300k to your favorite fancy house builder to have a prettier house than the plebs living in state housing. The US has the ACA, yet as far as I know the US still has private, higher quality hospitals. Turns out, making something a right doesn't mean "everyone has to have access to the best in class", but "has to have access to something which guarantees livable conditions." >These silly things like "x is a human right" miss the point. At some point people have to take responsibility. These silly "people have to take responsibility" talking points mostly shows that you have no regard for human life and would rather perpetuate suffering than provide something as basic as housing to people. Then again, since almost 100% of your post history in the past three months is about "oh no being a landlord is hard", it seems that you actively benefit from misery.
- itsoktocry 4y ago
  >But many landlords are just normal people with other jobs, where being a landlord is not a job to them, but an opportunity to earn money by renting.While one should be able to expect them to know the relevant laws, I bet that most of them don't care to bother because of the time and effort it takes. And you can't fire them for doing a piss-poor job. Do you see why that's an issue? I mean, you're literally advocating breaking the law in order for already wealthy people to earn more money.
  - DANmode 4y ago
    Are they advocating? > While one should be able to expect them to know the relevant laws We're asked to take the strongest, most charitable interpretation of people's words, here. It helps discussion.
  - sparrish 4y ago
    People fire their landlord all the time. It's called moving.
heavyset_go 4y ago
You'd hope that business owners would care about running ethical businesses and meeting their clients' needs instead of holding them in outright contempt and disdain.
- Zababa 4y ago
  Do landlors consider themselves business owners? The few I know seem to treat it differently. It might be because they rent one or two houses/apparemments at most.
  - bombcar 4y ago
    Most small-time landlords do NOT treat it as a business; they have a general idea that "total proceeds" > "mortgage expenses" + appreciation and consider themselves to be doing well. Often (especially in CA) they're doing arbitrage on property taxes (if they sold the house, it's tax would rise, so they can rent it close to the "sell it now mortgage + taxes" price). They never stop to consider why their accountant keeps saying that they made $0 on the rental after depreciation ... must be a gift from the IRS! Once you actually start trying to work it as a business you realize why most companies don't want to be in the business of renting single family homes, and stick to larger apartments.
    - moneywoes 4y ago
      > Once you actually start trying to work it as a business you realize why most companies don't want to be in the business of renting single family homes, and stick to larger apartments. Can you elaborate on this? Is it due to the larger numbers in multifamily
    - heavyset_go 4y ago
      Just because some landlords run their businesses poorly, or don't/barely break even, doesn't mean that they aren't running businesses.
- 2-718-281-828 4y ago
  renting from the perception of landlords is more fiefdom than a business. they literally consider themself "landlords" ...
xattt 4y ago
Renting is a huge issue on Prince Edward Island, so much that a local legal group put out simple language information about provincially-legislated obligations for tenants and landlords. (1) https://legalinfopei.ca/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/Renting-PEI-Eng-Guide-for-Tenants.pdf https://legalinfopei.ca/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/Renting-P... (2) https://legalinfopei.ca/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/Renting-PEI-Eng-Guide-for-Landlords-web.pdf https://legalinfopei.ca/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/Renting-P...
- dghughes 4y ago
  Ha! I'm on PEI but nice to see info about it. There is also https://myoldapartment.org/ https://myoldapartment.org/ to see what the last tenant paid for their rent. PEI seems to be a terrible place to live now. A small population with 50% of the population in one small area. Surge of newcomers. The scourge Airbnb STRs. Buildings going up daily but nowhere to live. Lots of slum landlords in slum buildings. Historical properties as apartment buildings but renovating has to be done historically accurately so no landlord does anything. Rent jumping by 10% or even 95% for one place (a rush beofre the new regs). Controls and new regulations only now implemented after the party in power dragged its feet.
tyoma 4y ago
Refusing to return security deposits is absolutely a low income landlord strategy. It was so endemic in Chicago that it was standard practice to withhold last month’s rent and send the landlord a letter saying to take the security deposit and send you a bill for any repairs. This is both against the lease and financially equivalent to what an honest landlord would do, except the burden to get paid is now on the landlord. If they have kept your security deposit in a separate, interest bearing account as the law requires[0] there should be no problem in the transaction. 0. Hahahahaha there was exactly one landlord I had who actually did this (not in Chicago) and returned my full security deposit with interest.
- cdmckay 4y ago
  In Barcelona (and I think all of Spain), your 1-month deposit is kept by the state and is automatically returned to you unless the landlord can prove that you did something that entitles them to it.
  - tough 4y ago
    The landlord is supposedly legally enforced to put the money in the chamber of commerce, but ALAS not all of them will (even if it's illegal) and many will also try to scam you out of your deposit if they see they can get away with it.
  - nibbleshifter 4y ago
    Its the same in the UK. But many landlords aren't compliant with this, and enforcement varies
- jackcosgrove 4y ago
  In Chicago landlords have to send you an annual check paying out the interest, which during the low interest rate years amounted to 10-30¢ a year. The postage stamp cost more. In response landlords started to require non-refundable move-in fees in lieu of a security deposit. These can range between about 40-60% of a month's rent.
  - 4y ago
ransom1538 4y ago
"landlords have 30 days to return the security deposit with any deductions listed. Failure to do so results in the landlord owing the tenant double the original amount with no deductions." I printed that out, highlighted the relevant section,... " Young jedi. You mail this AFTER 30 days and get the money.
- hahajk 4y ago
  I'd rather have $1000 without going to court than $2000 and the hassle of suing someone.
  - ransom1538 4y ago
    What about $2000 without going to court? They will most likely pay immediately to avoid court [landlords don't like being in court with a 'failure to repay security deposit' type case].
  - keiferski 4y ago
    Yeah I just wanted my money back and to move on, not get involved with the courts.
  - ToValueFunfetti 4y ago
    Another way of looking at it is whether you should punish the landlord for attempting to steal your money, with the extra $1000 being an incentive/payment for your time. I don't think there's a moral obligation to do so, but it definitely improves the world if landlords are afraid to try this tactic on others.
- oblio 4y ago
  > I called him, messaged him, left notes in his mailbox. No reply. One month, two months went by.
sidlls 4y ago
This is one of the reasons I became a landlord in the first place. One of my tenants recently experienced a terrible water damage issue that caused both bathrooms in their unit to be unavailable while repairs occur. They were shocked when I told them I would cover the cost of their relocation expenses while the repairs occurred. I got really lucky when the company I work for went public. Going from being nearly homeless as a child to being a well-compensated, and now wealthy, engineer really was motivating to give something back. Buying a few properties, renting them to lower income people, and really working with them when they're struggling might not be efficient/scalable with my little 7 figure windfall, but being able to make and see a direct impact really makes me quite happy.
- StockHuman 4y ago
  [flagged]
  - cfiggers 4y ago
    Entering into and then holding up your end of fair bargains with other people is a good thing to do. We need that a lot more than we need altruistic gestures, in my opinion.
    - AndrewKemendo 4y ago
      A “fair bargain” isn’t possible As throughly demonstrated in this thread - unless you go to extreme effort like threatening to take someone to court - Landlords hold all the power to set rates, increase rates, ignore complaints etc and there are almost no avenues for recompense. So no, there can be no fair exchange when lambs negotiate with wolves.
      - Aloha 4y ago
        What happens if you have a landlord who follows (or exceeds) the law? I've rented from plenty like this, simply because I took the effort to find places that were locally owned (while not a cure all, it helps). Also, whats the alternative? not everyone can meet the financial or responsibility requirements that come with homeownership. So what are you left with after that, government owned housing?
microtonal 4y ago
I had a colleague who once pointed out to their landlord that something was not according to the law. The next day they come home from work and all their furniture was removed and the locks replaced. Sure, you can take them to court, but most likely they'll let you know how they feel about that by sending some thugs. Landlords can be the lowest scum of the earth. Many cooperations are great though, we never had any issues with them, they'd send someone quickly when asking for repairs, and were often very reasonable about things, etc.
- TheOtherHobbes 4y ago
  There's significant overlap between organised - or semi-organised - crime and property rentals. It's not unusual for some landlords to also make money from prostitution, drug dealing, and sometimes extortion. This doesn't mean all landlords are criminals. But if you have a greed-driven sociopathic mindset all of the above are very attractive, and it's not hard to make them work together.
  - moneywoes 4y ago
    Any citations?
- sparrish 4y ago
  > Landlords can be the lowest scum of the earth. The same can be said for tenants.
MarcoZavala 4y ago
[dead]
adrianparsons 4y ago
State and local laws matter a lot. I moved to a tenant-friendly state (NY) from a tenant-unfriendly state (Texas). NY has much stronger protections for renters. Better eviction laws, access to housing court, and actual enforcement of housing laws.
- prottog 4y ago
  For what it's worth, tenant-friendly states also have higher rents, even among cities of comparable size and incomes. Nothing happens for free.
  - moneywoes 4y ago
    Is there a let of these tenant free states
itsoktocry 4y ago
>I've had to deal with difficult landlords a handful of times and I'd say the common thread is that they expect you, the tenant, to not understand your rights and the laws that enforce those rights Low interest rates and AirBnB has created a whole class of landlords that have no clue of their obligations to tenants. They think that owning the property is enough, and that they're doing you a favour. Being a landlord is as old a business as there is. In any efficient market it is not easy or lucrative.
blululu 4y ago
Stealing deposits is such a scumbag crime. Typically stealing $3000 from someone is considered a serious felony but for landlords it is common practice. For anyone reading this, I would highly recommend your ex-landlord them to small claims court for this kind of crime. The forms are not that hard, the Judges are sympathetic (the landlord is blatantly committing a crime), and it is very satisfying to know that the law can protect you from the criminal elements of society. I would also add that in California, deposits must be put in an interest bearing savings account and paid back with the interest. Make sure they pay you the proper amount. Ignorance of the law is not a legal defense and it helps establish criminal intent.
- nibbleshifter 4y ago
  In the UK it was such a routine thing (landlord not giving your deposit back) that I just stopped paying the last months rent before moving out. The UK does have a supposedly mandatory deposit protection scheme, but a lot of dodgy landlords aren't compliant with it, and the dispute process is a fucking nightmare.
  - okeuro49 4y ago
    > The UK does have a supposedly mandatory deposit protection scheme, but a lot of dodgy landlords aren't compliant with it, and the dispute process is a fucking nightmare. You can claim up to three times the deposit if it isn't protected in 30 days. The dispute process is pretty good I have found.
  - philjohn 4y ago
    Penalties are steep for not using it, and fortunately enough, landlords have property that can have a charge attached to it. Good luck getting another BTL mortgage.
- Brusco_RF 4y ago
  Curious about this, does the same hold in Arizona? I had a landlord steal my security deposit plus send me to collections for almost $2K for what they said were scratches on the flooring... which was vinyl... the picture they sent as proof would get absolutely laughed out of court I am sure[1] [1] https://goo.gl/maps/VRe4zHTAYrzZZz1H7 https://goo.gl/maps/VRe4zHTAYrzZZz1H7
Folcon 4y ago
So I'm confused, why didn't you just file and inform them that you had filed and they now owed you double? From my reading you were 2 months in. They have no disincentive from your situation to improve. I mean if you were concerned about the hassle it seems you could have equally said, 45 days have passed, at this point you are legally obliged to give me 2x the deposit, citing the law as you did. Pay me 1.5x the deposit now or 2x when I file at the local court. At least then in the future they may respond to the first message to future tenants.
- keiferski 4y ago
  Well, because I was a college kid that just wanted my $350 dollars back. I didn’t really want to get involved with filing a claim.
john-radio 4y ago
Lucky you to have encountered a scummy landlord smart enough not to want to waste his time in small claims court. Mine showed up there with a lawyer, of all things, and tried to argue that the ceiling fan falling out of the ceiling onto us while we were sleeping, the 15-year-old dishwasher flooding the kitchen, and a microwave button being broken were all worth $1000 or so in deductions.
ThePowerOfFuet 4y ago
Why not file?
Camillo 4y ago
> I'd say the common thread is that they expect you, the tenant, to not understand your rights and the laws that enforce those rights. I think there's also a cost-benefit evaluation when it comes to deciding where to make use of those laws. I've heard that there are tenant screening services that will report whether you have previously sued a landlord. Is it even worth it to sue if it's going to make it more difficult to find a better place later?
eli 4y ago
But now imagine you lived in place without such strong renter protections. Most of America doesn’t have rules like that.

qwertox 4y ago

> that they expect you, the tenant, to not understand your rights and the laws that enforce those rights It could well be that they themselves don't understand your rights. Sure, in the case of the security deposit, they should be smart enough to know what this is. But many landlords are just normal people with other jobs, where being a landlord is not a job to them, but an opportunity to earn money by renting. While one should be able to expect them to know the relevant laws, I bet that most of them don't care to bother because of the time and effort it takes.

Fnoord 4y ago
They have a business, too: being a landlord. How about taking your business serious and not get in legal issues with your customer(s)?
sametmax 4y ago
Yes but in that case, they at least answer to you and you can have a human to human discussion.
vinnic 4y ago
> But many landlords are just normal people with other jobs, where being a landlord is not a job to them, but an opportunity to earn money by renting. That's no excuse for not returning a tenant's security deposit though.
- detourdog 4y ago
  The regulations on security deposit in Massachusetts has led me to not use security deposits. I also don’t use a lease. A tenant can come and go from month to month. I only require first and last months rent.
  - analog31 4y ago
    Are you concerned about squatters rights?
    - detourdog 4y ago
      Fundamentally I would like to be able to trust the people I'm dealing with where a contract isn't needed and it all works out. I don't have a lot of faith in a contract really satisfying any of my needs. I feel a contract with its specifics and each sides personal interpretation can distract from disputer resolution. Squatters are my biggest fear. I feel it is a justified fear. I also am happy to offer anyone a lease that requests one. I don't want to mindlessly use one. Live and learn they say:)
      - analog31 4y ago
        I appreciate the sentiment, but your tenants might have rights that you don't know about. These may vary depending on your locale, and may include restrictions on evictions of tenants who don't have written leases.
        detourdog 4y ago
        I give my tenants this as part of the move in documentation. https://www.mass.gov/guides/the-attorney-generals-guide-to-landlord-and-tenant-rights https://www.mass.gov/guides/the-attorney-generals-guide-to-l... This was the document I used to shape my thinking and since I have more than 5 units (8 units total) I'm inspected by my town officials every 2 years to assure the livability. I see the whole relationship as reciprocal and hope to avoid evictions. I do no credit checks and I do my own internet research. I place a lot of value on the personal interactions and so far I have had good fortune.
harvey9 4y ago
Sure. No big deal if they don't know about fire safety either, not like it's their real job anyway.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- fuzzybiscuit 4y ago
  [flagged]
- DANmode 4y ago
  The commenter may or may not feel it's correct, but I didn't see that in their comment.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
nvarsj 4y ago
That's precisely the problem with many landlords. Being a landlord is not free money without any work, even though many think it is.
- kevviiinn 4y ago
  That doesn't stop many of them from taking your money while not doing work
ilyt 4y ago
> But many landlords are just normal people with other jobs, where being a landlord is not a job to them, but an opportunity to earn money by renting. While one should be able to expect them to know the relevant laws, I bet that most of them don't care to bother because of the time and effort it takes. ...so ? They earn money for doing essentially nothing, the least they should do is to know the law.
- fuzzybiscuit 4y ago
  [flagged]
- qwertox 4y ago
  I fully agree with this. But I just intended to point out that "they expect you, the tenant, to not understand your rights and the laws that enforce those rights" is not the only reason. While I am no landlord, I have relatives who are and they don't care about the law. It's something you they will be made aware of when it arises and then dealt with accordingly. Take the example of GP's post, he kindly did the research for his ex-landlord until he convinced him. His ex-landlord may now see himself confirmed in that his approach to not caring is the right one, until the ex-renter brings up a very valid point.
  - blululu 4y ago
    You are giving very charitable interpretation to someone who was clearly withholding the full security deposit for two months past the due in flagrant violation of the law and common sense. He didn't even fully comply with the law when it was shown to him. At two months past due, he would have been required to pay double for late payment, and the OP was generous in not enforcing the law to its full extent. Given the asymmetry between the number of instances where a renter and a landlord will need to engage in this transaction, it is hard to extend the same leeway to someone who does this transaction for multiple units that we might afford someone doing this for one unit. If anything I would suspect that the landlord in question is a repeat offender.
  - ilyt 4y ago
    > Take the example of GP's post, he kindly did the research for his ex-landlord until he convinced him. His ex-landlord may now see himself confirmed in that his approach to not caring is the right one, until the ex-renter brings up a very valid point. I HIGHLY doubt land-lord didn't knew the meaning of "security deposit" and didn't return it immediately "because he didn't knew the law", especially when he was clearly ignoring the former tenant. He most likely counted on people not bothering to get it back when being ignored
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
Intermernet 4y ago
Being a landlord is a job. If you aren't aware of the requirements of the job, you shouldn't be allowed to have the job. If you break the law by not adhering to the requirements, you should be punished. If you have a history of breaking said laws, you should be banned from being a landlord.
ohgodplsno 4y ago
>But many landlords are just normal people with other jobs, where being a landlord is not a job to them, but an opportunity to earn money by renting Ah yes, the highly valuable-to-society job that is being a leech.
- sethammons 4y ago
  s/being a leech/providing housing liquidity Not everyone should have to purchase a home to live.
  - ohgodplsno 4y ago
    Funnily enough, we do agree on that end result, but definitely not on the methods. Housing should be a right, and housing should be provided to any citizen of a country. Letting a small minority of wealthy land owners become more wealthy and centralizing home ownership is a sign of failing societies. A landlord does not "provide housing liquidity". Housing is not a good that I can live without. I'll die without a roof over my head. Profiting off of that is the behavior of a leech.
    - matchbok 4y ago
      Housing is not a human right. Do you have a right to force me to build you a house? Think about it. Why would we have any nice housing at all in that situation? Why would anyone build it? These silly things like "x is a human right" miss the point. At some point people have to take responsibility.
      - ohgodplsno 4y ago
        >Do you have a right to force me to build you a house? Me ? No. Us, as a society, where we decide to ? Abso-fucking-lutely. >Why would we have any nice housing at all in that situation? Why would anyone build it? Nothing prevents you from putting in more money to make yourself the fancy house you've dreamed of. You can decide to give 300k to your favorite fancy house builder to have a prettier house than the plebs living in state housing. The US has the ACA, yet as far as I know the US still has private, higher quality hospitals. Turns out, making something a right doesn't mean "everyone has to have access to the best in class", but "has to have access to something which guarantees livable conditions." >These silly things like "x is a human right" miss the point. At some point people have to take responsibility. These silly "people have to take responsibility" talking points mostly shows that you have no regard for human life and would rather perpetuate suffering than provide something as basic as housing to people. Then again, since almost 100% of your post history in the past three months is about "oh no being a landlord is hard", it seems that you actively benefit from misery.
itsoktocry 4y ago
>But many landlords are just normal people with other jobs, where being a landlord is not a job to them, but an opportunity to earn money by renting.While one should be able to expect them to know the relevant laws, I bet that most of them don't care to bother because of the time and effort it takes. And you can't fire them for doing a piss-poor job. Do you see why that's an issue? I mean, you're literally advocating breaking the law in order for already wealthy people to earn more money.
- DANmode 4y ago
  Are they advocating? > While one should be able to expect them to know the relevant laws We're asked to take the strongest, most charitable interpretation of people's words, here. It helps discussion.
- sparrish 4y ago
  People fire their landlord all the time. It's called moving.

heavyset_go 4y ago

You'd hope that business owners would care about running ethical businesses and meeting their clients' needs instead of holding them in outright contempt and disdain.

Zababa 4y ago
Do landlors consider themselves business owners? The few I know seem to treat it differently. It might be because they rent one or two houses/apparemments at most.
- bombcar 4y ago
  Most small-time landlords do NOT treat it as a business; they have a general idea that "total proceeds" > "mortgage expenses" + appreciation and consider themselves to be doing well. Often (especially in CA) they're doing arbitrage on property taxes (if they sold the house, it's tax would rise, so they can rent it close to the "sell it now mortgage + taxes" price). They never stop to consider why their accountant keeps saying that they made $0 on the rental after depreciation ... must be a gift from the IRS! Once you actually start trying to work it as a business you realize why most companies don't want to be in the business of renting single family homes, and stick to larger apartments.
  - moneywoes 4y ago
    > Once you actually start trying to work it as a business you realize why most companies don't want to be in the business of renting single family homes, and stick to larger apartments. Can you elaborate on this? Is it due to the larger numbers in multifamily
  - heavyset_go 4y ago
    Just because some landlords run their businesses poorly, or don't/barely break even, doesn't mean that they aren't running businesses.
2-718-281-828 4y ago
renting from the perception of landlords is more fiefdom than a business. they literally consider themself "landlords" ...

xattt 4y ago

Renting is a huge issue on Prince Edward Island, so much that a local legal group put out simple language information about provincially-legislated obligations for tenants and landlords. (1) https://legalinfopei.ca/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/Renting-PEI-Eng-Guide-for-Tenants.pdf https://legalinfopei.ca/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/Renting-P... (2) https://legalinfopei.ca/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/Renting-PEI-Eng-Guide-for-Landlords-web.pdf https://legalinfopei.ca/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/Renting-P...

dghughes 4y ago
Ha! I'm on PEI but nice to see info about it. There is also https://myoldapartment.org/ https://myoldapartment.org/ to see what the last tenant paid for their rent. PEI seems to be a terrible place to live now. A small population with 50% of the population in one small area. Surge of newcomers. The scourge Airbnb STRs. Buildings going up daily but nowhere to live. Lots of slum landlords in slum buildings. Historical properties as apartment buildings but renovating has to be done historically accurately so no landlord does anything. Rent jumping by 10% or even 95% for one place (a rush beofre the new regs). Controls and new regulations only now implemented after the party in power dragged its feet.

tyoma 4y ago

Refusing to return security deposits is absolutely a low income landlord strategy. It was so endemic in Chicago that it was standard practice to withhold last month’s rent and send the landlord a letter saying to take the security deposit and send you a bill for any repairs. This is both against the lease and financially equivalent to what an honest landlord would do, except the burden to get paid is now on the landlord. If they have kept your security deposit in a separate, interest bearing account as the law requires[0] there should be no problem in the transaction. 0. Hahahahaha there was exactly one landlord I had who actually did this (not in Chicago) and returned my full security deposit with interest.

cdmckay 4y ago
In Barcelona (and I think all of Spain), your 1-month deposit is kept by the state and is automatically returned to you unless the landlord can prove that you did something that entitles them to it.
- tough 4y ago
  The landlord is supposedly legally enforced to put the money in the chamber of commerce, but ALAS not all of them will (even if it's illegal) and many will also try to scam you out of your deposit if they see they can get away with it.
- nibbleshifter 4y ago
  Its the same in the UK. But many landlords aren't compliant with this, and enforcement varies
jackcosgrove 4y ago
In Chicago landlords have to send you an annual check paying out the interest, which during the low interest rate years amounted to 10-30¢ a year. The postage stamp cost more. In response landlords started to require non-refundable move-in fees in lieu of a security deposit. These can range between about 40-60% of a month's rent.
- 4y ago

ransom1538 4y ago

"landlords have 30 days to return the security deposit with any deductions listed. Failure to do so results in the landlord owing the tenant double the original amount with no deductions." I printed that out, highlighted the relevant section,... " Young jedi. You mail this AFTER 30 days and get the money.

hahajk 4y ago
I'd rather have $1000 without going to court than $2000 and the hassle of suing someone.
- ransom1538 4y ago
  What about $2000 without going to court? They will most likely pay immediately to avoid court [landlords don't like being in court with a 'failure to repay security deposit' type case].
- keiferski 4y ago
  Yeah I just wanted my money back and to move on, not get involved with the courts.
- ToValueFunfetti 4y ago
  Another way of looking at it is whether you should punish the landlord for attempting to steal your money, with the extra $1000 being an incentive/payment for your time. I don't think there's a moral obligation to do so, but it definitely improves the world if landlords are afraid to try this tactic on others.
oblio 4y ago
> I called him, messaged him, left notes in his mailbox. No reply. One month, two months went by.

sidlls 4y ago

This is one of the reasons I became a landlord in the first place. One of my tenants recently experienced a terrible water damage issue that caused both bathrooms in their unit to be unavailable while repairs occur. They were shocked when I told them I would cover the cost of their relocation expenses while the repairs occurred. I got really lucky when the company I work for went public. Going from being nearly homeless as a child to being a well-compensated, and now wealthy, engineer really was motivating to give something back. Buying a few properties, renting them to lower income people, and really working with them when they're struggling might not be efficient/scalable with my little 7 figure windfall, but being able to make and see a direct impact really makes me quite happy.

StockHuman 4y ago
[flagged]
- cfiggers 4y ago
  Entering into and then holding up your end of fair bargains with other people is a good thing to do. We need that a lot more than we need altruistic gestures, in my opinion.
  - AndrewKemendo 4y ago
    A “fair bargain” isn’t possible As throughly demonstrated in this thread - unless you go to extreme effort like threatening to take someone to court - Landlords hold all the power to set rates, increase rates, ignore complaints etc and there are almost no avenues for recompense. So no, there can be no fair exchange when lambs negotiate with wolves.
    - Aloha 4y ago
      What happens if you have a landlord who follows (or exceeds) the law? I've rented from plenty like this, simply because I took the effort to find places that were locally owned (while not a cure all, it helps). Also, whats the alternative? not everyone can meet the financial or responsibility requirements that come with homeownership. So what are you left with after that, government owned housing?

microtonal 4y ago

I had a colleague who once pointed out to their landlord that something was not according to the law. The next day they come home from work and all their furniture was removed and the locks replaced. Sure, you can take them to court, but most likely they'll let you know how they feel about that by sending some thugs. Landlords can be the lowest scum of the earth. Many cooperations are great though, we never had any issues with them, they'd send someone quickly when asking for repairs, and were often very reasonable about things, etc.

TheOtherHobbes 4y ago
There's significant overlap between organised - or semi-organised - crime and property rentals. It's not unusual for some landlords to also make money from prostitution, drug dealing, and sometimes extortion. This doesn't mean all landlords are criminals. But if you have a greed-driven sociopathic mindset all of the above are very attractive, and it's not hard to make them work together.
- moneywoes 4y ago
  Any citations?
sparrish 4y ago
> Landlords can be the lowest scum of the earth. The same can be said for tenants.

MarcoZavala 4y ago

[dead]

adrianparsons 4y ago

State and local laws matter a lot. I moved to a tenant-friendly state (NY) from a tenant-unfriendly state (Texas). NY has much stronger protections for renters. Better eviction laws, access to housing court, and actual enforcement of housing laws.

prottog 4y ago
For what it's worth, tenant-friendly states also have higher rents, even among cities of comparable size and incomes. Nothing happens for free.
- moneywoes 4y ago
  Is there a let of these tenant free states

itsoktocry 4y ago

>I've had to deal with difficult landlords a handful of times and I'd say the common thread is that they expect you, the tenant, to not understand your rights and the laws that enforce those rights Low interest rates and AirBnB has created a whole class of landlords that have no clue of their obligations to tenants. They think that owning the property is enough, and that they're doing you a favour. Being a landlord is as old a business as there is. In any efficient market it is not easy or lucrative.

blululu 4y ago

Stealing deposits is such a scumbag crime. Typically stealing $3000 from someone is considered a serious felony but for landlords it is common practice. For anyone reading this, I would highly recommend your ex-landlord them to small claims court for this kind of crime. The forms are not that hard, the Judges are sympathetic (the landlord is blatantly committing a crime), and it is very satisfying to know that the law can protect you from the criminal elements of society. I would also add that in California, deposits must be put in an interest bearing savings account and paid back with the interest. Make sure they pay you the proper amount. Ignorance of the law is not a legal defense and it helps establish criminal intent.

nibbleshifter 4y ago
In the UK it was such a routine thing (landlord not giving your deposit back) that I just stopped paying the last months rent before moving out. The UK does have a supposedly mandatory deposit protection scheme, but a lot of dodgy landlords aren't compliant with it, and the dispute process is a fucking nightmare.
- okeuro49 4y ago
  > The UK does have a supposedly mandatory deposit protection scheme, but a lot of dodgy landlords aren't compliant with it, and the dispute process is a fucking nightmare. You can claim up to three times the deposit if it isn't protected in 30 days. The dispute process is pretty good I have found.
- philjohn 4y ago
  Penalties are steep for not using it, and fortunately enough, landlords have property that can have a charge attached to it. Good luck getting another BTL mortgage.
Brusco_RF 4y ago
Curious about this, does the same hold in Arizona? I had a landlord steal my security deposit plus send me to collections for almost $2K for what they said were scratches on the flooring... which was vinyl... the picture they sent as proof would get absolutely laughed out of court I am sure[1] [1] https://goo.gl/maps/VRe4zHTAYrzZZz1H7 https://goo.gl/maps/VRe4zHTAYrzZZz1H7

Folcon 4y ago

So I'm confused, why didn't you just file and inform them that you had filed and they now owed you double? From my reading you were 2 months in. They have no disincentive from your situation to improve. I mean if you were concerned about the hassle it seems you could have equally said, 45 days have passed, at this point you are legally obliged to give me 2x the deposit, citing the law as you did. Pay me 1.5x the deposit now or 2x when I file at the local court. At least then in the future they may respond to the first message to future tenants.

keiferski 4y ago
Well, because I was a college kid that just wanted my $350 dollars back. I didn’t really want to get involved with filing a claim.

john-radio 4y ago

Lucky you to have encountered a scummy landlord smart enough not to want to waste his time in small claims court. Mine showed up there with a lawyer, of all things, and tried to argue that the ceiling fan falling out of the ceiling onto us while we were sleeping, the 15-year-old dishwasher flooding the kitchen, and a microwave button being broken were all worth $1000 or so in deductions.

ThePowerOfFuet 4y ago

Why not file?

Camillo 4y ago

> I'd say the common thread is that they expect you, the tenant, to not understand your rights and the laws that enforce those rights. I think there's also a cost-benefit evaluation when it comes to deciding where to make use of those laws. I've heard that there are tenant screening services that will report whether you have previously sued a landlord. Is it even worth it to sue if it's going to make it more difficult to find a better place later?

eli 4y ago

But now imagine you lived in place without such strong renter protections. Most of America doesn’t have rules like that.