8 ms·

Does criminally charging your leading opposition candidate count?

by dukeofdoom 3y ago

youngNed 3y ago
It's a well written path in those trying: "Lock her up" certainly was attempting it
- Alupis 3y ago
  There's quite a difference between saying something, and doing something, no?
  - add-sub-mul-div 3y ago
    Definitely. The difference is extant vs. invented evidence of criminal activity.
    - Alupis 3y ago
      I suspect we can make this claim about all discussed parties at this point...
krapp 3y ago
Not when they actually commit crimes, no.
- dukeofdoom 3y ago
  as determined by the ruling party?
  - krapp 3y ago
    If you refuse to see the system investigating your chosen candidate as legitimate, then I suppose you could describe the process of the rule of law in hostile and bad faith terms, yes.
    - dukeofdoom 3y ago
      They're legitimate, in that they "hold the reins of power". The legitimacy of the election by which they came to hold that power, is still disputed by a significant portion of the population.
      - dragonwriter 3y ago
        So, if we are talking about Trump: 1. I don’t think he is Alvin Bragg, Jr.’s, leading opposition candidate, unless the news has misreported what position he has declared he is camapaigning for, and 2. I am unaware of any signficant debate over the legitimacy of the 2021 election for New York County District Attorney.
      - krapp 3y ago
        > The legitimacy of the election by which they came to hold that power, is still disputed by a significant portion of the population. No, it isn't. Even Fox News was caught out admitting they knew the "stolen election" conspiracy was nonsense, they just pushed it for ratings. It being "still disputed by a significant portion of the population" is delusional.
        dukeofdoom 3y ago
        "The Reuters/Ipsos poll showed that 61% of Republicans believe the election was "stolen" from Trump. " https://www.reuters.com/world/us/53-republicans-view-trump-true-us-president-reutersipsos-2021-05-24/ https://www.reuters.com/world/us/53-republicans-view-trump-t... 60% of 40 million republicans was 20,000+ million That number may have gone down since May 2021, but is still significant.
dragonwriter 3y ago
> Does criminally charging your leading opposition candidate count? If it is on the same standards (or a higher bar) than that under which someone who was a political ally or uninvolved would be charged, no. If it is on a basis on which someone differently politically situated with the same degree of evidence of the same kind of crime would otherwise not be charged, than yes.
- dukeofdoom 3y ago
  No one has been charged under such circumstances before. Non disclosure agreements are legal. Billing to pay fees for them is legal too. Trump was financing his own campaign. A candidate can contribute to their own campaign as much as they want. Where exactly is the crime? Attempting to save a spouse further embarrassment from a long past affair is sufficient reason on its own to make the payment too.
  - dragonwriter 3y ago
    > Trump was financing his own campaign. A candidate can contribute to their own campaign as much as they want. Where exactly is the crime? So the funds were reported as contributed to and expended by his campaign, and the specific payment, including recipient and purpose disclosed on Schedule B-P filed with the FEC and available to the public as required by law? Or was it falsely characterized differently in Trump’s business records (a crime) to cover up that Trump knowingly failed to make the required campaign disclosures (also a crime) because the whole point of a hush money payment is defeated if you accurately report the payment and its purpose in public disclosures?
    - dukeofdoom 3y ago
      If the payment itself is not a crime (as admitted) just the alleged mis-accounting. Then how can the mis-accounting possibly be a campaign contribution, when the entry happened in 2017 and Trump won the election in 2016? Are they going to discern future intent of his accountants? And does "future crime" require Time travelling Trump? Perhaps this legal theory that the prosecutor is basing this on is just political hackery as it appears to be? Is that possible? I also think you're answering your own question. You can either have non disclosure agreements or you have to make them public, which would defeat the whole purpose of non disclosure agreements. On a side note, normally...your past lovers can't threaten to expose your affair unless you pay them. Extortion is a crime.
hayst4ck 3y ago
Let's assume he actually broke the law and actually lied about the election and tried to get the Georgian official to "find" votes. If we assume that is true, what should happen?
- dukeofdoom 3y ago
  Here's the full call: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AW_Bdf_jGaA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AW_Bdf_jGaA It's within a candidate's rights to ask that all his voter's votes get counted.
  - hayst4ck 3y ago
    The question I asked was not what he did or didn't do. It was: what should happen if he actually is guilty of what he is accused of?

Does criminally charging your leading opposition candidate count?

youngNed 3y ago

It's a well written path in those trying: "Lock her up" certainly was attempting it

Alupis 3y ago
There's quite a difference between saying something, and doing something, no?
- add-sub-mul-div 3y ago
  Definitely. The difference is extant vs. invented evidence of criminal activity.
  - Alupis 3y ago
    I suspect we can make this claim about all discussed parties at this point...

krapp 3y ago

Not when they actually commit crimes, no.

dukeofdoom 3y ago
as determined by the ruling party?
- krapp 3y ago
  If you refuse to see the system investigating your chosen candidate as legitimate, then I suppose you could describe the process of the rule of law in hostile and bad faith terms, yes.
  - dukeofdoom 3y ago
    They're legitimate, in that they "hold the reins of power". The legitimacy of the election by which they came to hold that power, is still disputed by a significant portion of the population.
    - dragonwriter 3y ago
      So, if we are talking about Trump: 1. I don’t think he is Alvin Bragg, Jr.’s, leading opposition candidate, unless the news has misreported what position he has declared he is camapaigning for, and 2. I am unaware of any signficant debate over the legitimacy of the 2021 election for New York County District Attorney.
    - krapp 3y ago
      > The legitimacy of the election by which they came to hold that power, is still disputed by a significant portion of the population. No, it isn't. Even Fox News was caught out admitting they knew the "stolen election" conspiracy was nonsense, they just pushed it for ratings. It being "still disputed by a significant portion of the population" is delusional.
      - dukeofdoom 3y ago
        "The Reuters/Ipsos poll showed that 61% of Republicans believe the election was "stolen" from Trump. " https://www.reuters.com/world/us/53-republicans-view-trump-true-us-president-reutersipsos-2021-05-24/ https://www.reuters.com/world/us/53-republicans-view-trump-t... 60% of 40 million republicans was 20,000+ million That number may have gone down since May 2021, but is still significant.

dragonwriter 3y ago

> Does criminally charging your leading opposition candidate count? If it is on the same standards (or a higher bar) than that under which someone who was a political ally or uninvolved would be charged, no. If it is on a basis on which someone differently politically situated with the same degree of evidence of the same kind of crime would otherwise not be charged, than yes.

dukeofdoom 3y ago
No one has been charged under such circumstances before. Non disclosure agreements are legal. Billing to pay fees for them is legal too. Trump was financing his own campaign. A candidate can contribute to their own campaign as much as they want. Where exactly is the crime? Attempting to save a spouse further embarrassment from a long past affair is sufficient reason on its own to make the payment too.
- dragonwriter 3y ago
  > Trump was financing his own campaign. A candidate can contribute to their own campaign as much as they want. Where exactly is the crime? So the funds were reported as contributed to and expended by his campaign, and the specific payment, including recipient and purpose disclosed on Schedule B-P filed with the FEC and available to the public as required by law? Or was it falsely characterized differently in Trump’s business records (a crime) to cover up that Trump knowingly failed to make the required campaign disclosures (also a crime) because the whole point of a hush money payment is defeated if you accurately report the payment and its purpose in public disclosures?
  - dukeofdoom 3y ago
    If the payment itself is not a crime (as admitted) just the alleged mis-accounting. Then how can the mis-accounting possibly be a campaign contribution, when the entry happened in 2017 and Trump won the election in 2016? Are they going to discern future intent of his accountants? And does "future crime" require Time travelling Trump? Perhaps this legal theory that the prosecutor is basing this on is just political hackery as it appears to be? Is that possible? I also think you're answering your own question. You can either have non disclosure agreements or you have to make them public, which would defeat the whole purpose of non disclosure agreements. On a side note, normally...your past lovers can't threaten to expose your affair unless you pay them. Extortion is a crime.

hayst4ck 3y ago

Let's assume he actually broke the law and actually lied about the election and tried to get the Georgian official to "find" votes. If we assume that is true, what should happen?

dukeofdoom 3y ago
Here's the full call: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AW_Bdf_jGaA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AW_Bdf_jGaA It's within a candidate's rights to ask that all his voter's votes get counted.
- hayst4ck 3y ago
  The question I asked was not what he did or didn't do. It was: what should happen if he actually is guilty of what he is accused of?