5 ms·

If Microsoft is getting value out of Rust, I hope they add Rust as a supported language in Visual Studio.

by petilon 3y ago

zip1234 3y ago
Have you tried it on VS Code? Have found the Rust experience in VS Code to be pretty good.
- qalmakka 3y ago
  Rust with rust-analyzer is IMHO very good nowadays, probably on par if not better than the experience with C++ on paid IDEs. The fact Rust grammar is context-free makes writing tools way easier because there's way less room for breakage, unlike when you write an extra > in C++ and parsing burns down in flames.
  - steveklabnik 3y ago
    (Rust’s grammar is technically not context free but the part that’s context sensitive is rarely used and even more rarely at a depth greater than one, so you’re right in spirit but I feel the need to be a bit pedantic about it for fairness’ sake)
    - qalmakka 3y ago
      (I know, but if you take raw literals out of the equation it more or less is, thankfully you can implement raw literals as a big huge lexer hack and ignore it during parsing. There's also macros, which are a separate pickle, but then the user more or less expects they may cause some magic, sure it's vastly better than `bob<flop>(blaz)` which is not sane in any metric I can think of)
13of40 3y ago
I don't know what it's like now, but back in the day devdiv (owners of Visual Studio, .Net, etc.) and Windows were highly siloed and it was hard to get them to align on a common way forward. Rust seems like the sort of thing devdiv would naturally pick up though.
- pjmlp 3y ago
  They still are, that is how we got C++/CX replaced with C++/WinRT and to this day zero tooling on Visual Studio, beyond the COM stuff that goes back to COM early days. Or like UWP was dropped for WinUI 3.0/WinAppSDK and there is no designer, or Native AOT doesn't do WinUI (.NET Native and C++/CX were under WinDev umbrella).
woodruffw 3y ago
From an outsider’s perspective, it seems like MS (meaning the “new” MS under Nadella) is more aligned under VS Code than their traditional Visual Studio product. I don’t doubt that Visual Studio will continue to be developed, but it would surprise me to see MS direct Rust resources specifically to it when they’ve already dedicated a lot of work towards Rust in VS Code. (This is coming from someone who feels mild resentment at how much better the Rust editing experience is in VS Code than his preferred editors.)
- JoBrad 3y ago
  I made a quick SDK for an API I built in C#, not too long ago. VSCode was surprisingly a much better experience.
- iudqnolq 3y ago
  Has Microsoft actually dedicated a lot of work to Rust in vsc? They haven't contributed significantly to the rust-analyzer project, which owns the vsc extension. > The following companies contributed significantly towards rust-analyzer development: Ferrous Systems Mozilla Embark Studios freiheit.com https://rust-analyzer.github.io/ https://rust-analyzer.github.io/
- naikrovek 3y ago
  VS is still very much a flagship product for Microsoft.
  - woodruffw 3y ago
    I didn’t say it wasn’t! However, if I was MS, I would look at the prevailing winds: it’s good to have one flagship, and even better to have another that doesn’t have the historical (technical, sentimental) baggage of your older one.
    - naikrovek 3y ago
      > I didn’t say it wasn’t! Sorry, I got the impression that you felt it was being slowly deprecated in favor of VS Code. I don't think that's the case, is all.
Someone1234 3y ago
Visual Studio is on its way out, and I say that as someone that uses it professionally every single workday. They've been monkey-patching in features now for years, and it remains slow and bloated. VSCode is the future and Microsoft's future. The current limited .Net support on VSCode feels like it is intentional to give Visual Studio another few years. PS - Obviously Visual Studio will never ACTUALLY go away. I am talking about as its flagship product for current/future development, it will remain for things like Windows Forms and other dead-end tech.
- switch007 3y ago
  VS code is a hodgepodge of plugins badly tied together which constantly spam you with change logs each time you open the app. Hopefully that’s not the future of IDEs and a Visual Studio replacement Luckily Rider exists
  - COMMENT___ 3y ago
    I don't understand how Rider is superior to VSCode. I tried Rider a while ago and switched back to VSCode because it gave me the impression that I was acting as a beta tester. There were, or still are, silly bugs that forced me to reinstall it completely several times. You just can't have such bugs in your software product if its codebase is covered with tests and if there is a dedicated team of software testers. Additionally, it costs $149 for the first year. However, I should note that I'm not a power user, so perhaps Rider's built-in Resharper is actually a must-have feature for someone.
- issafram 3y ago
  One of the worst takes I've ever seen on this site
- ChicagoDave 3y ago
  From a solution organization perspective, Visual Studio is still king in the .NET world. I’ve tried matching up my work patterns in VS Code and no matter how I twist it, VS Code always feels like a NodeJS web dev editor. As for performance, I recently upgraded from an old Yoga 2 (VS became unusable) to the new Surface Laptop 5 and Visual Studio is smoking fast now. I’ve heard great things about Rider but haven’t tried it. I don’t see MS dropping Visual Studio any time soon. There are still a lot of us older coders that’d raise hell if they tried. I also use the free Community version and it has everything I need.

If Microsoft is getting value out of Rust, I hope they add Rust as a supported language in Visual Studio.

zip1234 3y ago

Have you tried it on VS Code? Have found the Rust experience in VS Code to be pretty good.

qalmakka 3y ago
Rust with rust-analyzer is IMHO very good nowadays, probably on par if not better than the experience with C++ on paid IDEs. The fact Rust grammar is context-free makes writing tools way easier because there's way less room for breakage, unlike when you write an extra > in C++ and parsing burns down in flames.
- steveklabnik 3y ago
  (Rust’s grammar is technically not context free but the part that’s context sensitive is rarely used and even more rarely at a depth greater than one, so you’re right in spirit but I feel the need to be a bit pedantic about it for fairness’ sake)
  - qalmakka 3y ago
    (I know, but if you take raw literals out of the equation it more or less is, thankfully you can implement raw literals as a big huge lexer hack and ignore it during parsing. There's also macros, which are a separate pickle, but then the user more or less expects they may cause some magic, sure it's vastly better than `bob<flop>(blaz)` which is not sane in any metric I can think of)

13of40 3y ago

I don't know what it's like now, but back in the day devdiv (owners of Visual Studio, .Net, etc.) and Windows were highly siloed and it was hard to get them to align on a common way forward. Rust seems like the sort of thing devdiv would naturally pick up though.

pjmlp 3y ago
They still are, that is how we got C++/CX replaced with C++/WinRT and to this day zero tooling on Visual Studio, beyond the COM stuff that goes back to COM early days. Or like UWP was dropped for WinUI 3.0/WinAppSDK and there is no designer, or Native AOT doesn't do WinUI (.NET Native and C++/CX were under WinDev umbrella).

woodruffw 3y ago

From an outsider’s perspective, it seems like MS (meaning the “new” MS under Nadella) is more aligned under VS Code than their traditional Visual Studio product. I don’t doubt that Visual Studio will continue to be developed, but it would surprise me to see MS direct Rust resources specifically to it when they’ve already dedicated a lot of work towards Rust in VS Code. (This is coming from someone who feels mild resentment at how much better the Rust editing experience is in VS Code than his preferred editors.)

JoBrad 3y ago
I made a quick SDK for an API I built in C#, not too long ago. VSCode was surprisingly a much better experience.
iudqnolq 3y ago
Has Microsoft actually dedicated a lot of work to Rust in vsc? They haven't contributed significantly to the rust-analyzer project, which owns the vsc extension. > The following companies contributed significantly towards rust-analyzer development: Ferrous Systems Mozilla Embark Studios freiheit.com https://rust-analyzer.github.io/ https://rust-analyzer.github.io/
naikrovek 3y ago
VS is still very much a flagship product for Microsoft.
- woodruffw 3y ago
  I didn’t say it wasn’t! However, if I was MS, I would look at the prevailing winds: it’s good to have one flagship, and even better to have another that doesn’t have the historical (technical, sentimental) baggage of your older one.
  - naikrovek 3y ago
    > I didn’t say it wasn’t! Sorry, I got the impression that you felt it was being slowly deprecated in favor of VS Code. I don't think that's the case, is all.

Someone1234 3y ago

Visual Studio is on its way out, and I say that as someone that uses it professionally every single workday. They've been monkey-patching in features now for years, and it remains slow and bloated. VSCode is the future and Microsoft's future. The current limited .Net support on VSCode feels like it is intentional to give Visual Studio another few years. PS - Obviously Visual Studio will never ACTUALLY go away. I am talking about as its flagship product for current/future development, it will remain for things like Windows Forms and other dead-end tech.

switch007 3y ago
VS code is a hodgepodge of plugins badly tied together which constantly spam you with change logs each time you open the app. Hopefully that’s not the future of IDEs and a Visual Studio replacement Luckily Rider exists
- COMMENT___ 3y ago
  I don't understand how Rider is superior to VSCode. I tried Rider a while ago and switched back to VSCode because it gave me the impression that I was acting as a beta tester. There were, or still are, silly bugs that forced me to reinstall it completely several times. You just can't have such bugs in your software product if its codebase is covered with tests and if there is a dedicated team of software testers. Additionally, it costs $149 for the first year. However, I should note that I'm not a power user, so perhaps Rider's built-in Resharper is actually a must-have feature for someone.
issafram 3y ago
One of the worst takes I've ever seen on this site
ChicagoDave 3y ago
From a solution organization perspective, Visual Studio is still king in the .NET world. I’ve tried matching up my work patterns in VS Code and no matter how I twist it, VS Code always feels like a NodeJS web dev editor. As for performance, I recently upgraded from an old Yoga 2 (VS became unusable) to the new Surface Laptop 5 and Visual Studio is smoking fast now. I’ve heard great things about Rider but haven’t tried it. I don’t see MS dropping Visual Studio any time soon. There are still a lot of us older coders that’d raise hell if they tried. I also use the free Community version and it has everything I need.