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> iOS App Store: 101 million > iPadOS App Store: 23 million Asserting that the iPad App Store is distinct from the iOS App Store - and totally isn't in scope

• radicalbyte 4y ago
  Fantastic, now Epic can use this as evidence for their inevitable appeal against the recent decision which decided exactly the opposite.
• radicalbyte 4y ago
  It's strange that the iPhone apps I purchased also work on the iPad. I don't have to buy them again. How is it then a "different store"?
• wildredkraut 4y ago
  I don’t think they will be out of scope, because they all uses the same AppleID backend and users can cross login with the same AppleID everywhere. To be out of scope, Apple would have to block iOS AppleIDs and iOS purchases from working on the other gadgets and stores.
  • threeseed 4y ago
    They share the same AppleID backend. But users don't have to use the same login for each store.
• MBCook 4y ago
  iTunes and Apple TV aren’t app stores. The Apple TV App Store is listed.
  • jsnell 4y ago
    That explanation does not work. The DSA isn't a law restricted to App Stores. Also, podcasts and ebooks are not apps, but they listed their ebook store and podcast subscriptions platform in this disclosure. Why not the music store, the TV series and movie subscription service?
    • MBCook 4y ago
      Apple says this is a list of their App Store user counts, and the things they’ve listed are their app stores. Perhaps they’ll release those other numbers in a different document. I can’t say why Apple appears to be doing things this way. I was only pointing out why Apple may not have included them here.
    • FateOfNations 4y ago
      The explanation I see as relevant: the relevant portions of the DSA are about online platforms, which it defines as: > ‘online platform’ means a provider of hosting service which, at the request of a recipient of the service, stores and disseminates to the public information." For some content, particularly music, video, and some ebooks, Apple is the merchant of record. They are not acting as a platform for that content but as a traditional retailer. Compare this with the App Store, where Apple instead acts as a platform, intermediating the dissemination of information between non-Apple content providers and the public. A service like Amazon would have this distinction as well. Some interactions are direct retail transactions between an Amazon entity and the public. At the same time, its Amazon Marketplace service provides a platform for non-Amazon sellers to disseminate information to the public.
• gjsman-1000 4y ago
  Note that this is the Digital Services Act compliance, and not the Digital Markets Act which affects sideloading.
  • wildredkraut 4y ago
    Yes I know, and they share the same AppleIDs/AppleID Backend/Purchages. These AppStores are not fully independent and have to be seen as one. Many Apps even share the same binaries and are cross Apple Device available. You can install iPhone Apps on iPads, and you can install iPad Apps on Macs. That won't work on court.
    • gjsman-1000 4y ago
      > That won't work on court. How do you know? If there was no chance of it working, you would think Apple's lawyers would have said so.
      • wildredkraut 4y ago
        There is a reason why they bend over for EU's DSA. They can view the stores as they want, but they know that per law they aren't distinct online platforms, as long their Userbase, AppleIDs, AppleID Backend, Hosting Services, Databases, iCloud Services, Apps, Games and In-App Purchases are cross-wired and shared between all Apple devices/stores. The DSA sees it as one(1) united Online Platform and would not care for Apple's Store breakdown. This is just the typical Apple FUD: Without prejudice to further consideration of the legal characterisation, Apple views each version of the App Store as a distinct online platform under the DSA, and only the iOS App Store may qualify as a VLOP. Nonetheless, Apple intends, on an entirely voluntary basis, to align each of the existing versions of the App Store (including those that do not currently meet the VLOP designation threshold) with the existing DSA requirements for VLOPs because the goals of the DSA align with Apple’s goals to protect consumers from illegal content.
        • brookst 4y ago
          > This is just the typical Apple FUD Thanks for including that prominently enough it made it easy to skip the comment without reading.
• anonymouse008 4y ago
  Eh, I get the position here. Different device classes, different markets. I've gotten more than a few apps approved on tv, watch, Mac, iOS, iPad. They are distinctly different. As much as Apple is helping us leverage 'one code base to rule them all' there are so many gotchas and detail required to make great experiences on each.
  • _the_inflator 4y ago
    I agree. Almost anyone of these one size fits all approaches hits a wall sooner or later. Besides very basic applications, I would never make use of frameworks like Flutter or React Native. Same goes for Windows Universal Apps. Great concepts, but not very feasible in reality for slightly complex apps with good UX.
    • makestuff 4y ago
      Do you think it is worth the increased time to start out as a native app, or is it still worth rolling your MVP as flutter/reactive native?
      • karmelapple 4y ago
        IMO, roll your MVP with something like React Native, although it all depends how important the user experience is for your end users. Snapchat built with some platform-independent UI toolkit would have felt kind of wrong, and the speed at which I've seen teenagers use it (this was years ago) shows that they would have been frustrated with anything that is slow-ish. I assume similar trends dominate for TikTok and Instagram today. So unless you're attracting a very hip, fast-moving, perhaps even young-person's market, you probably just want an app that basically works and is available to folks on whichever phone they use. React Native, Flutter, Xamarin / .NET MAUI will all get you there.
      • mycall 4y ago
        This depends on the number of platforms you're trying to support. iOS, Android, mobile web, Windows and Linux? Flutter or Expo.
• alberth 4y ago
  > I wonder why iTunes and Apple TV+ aren't included, and why Podcasts is only counting paid subscribers. Is there some obvious reason why these kinds of services would be out of scope? Probably because they don't exceed the 45MM MAU threshold. > Online platforms with 45 million or more average monthly active recipients
  • jsnell 4y ago
    Most of the services they listed were nowhere near the threshold, so that can't be it.
• fsckboy 4y ago
  > iPad App Store is distinct from the iOS App Store the whole idea that applications written in software shouldn't handle screensize differences (and dynamic changes) intelligently is just so broken. I get that feeling in the pit of my stomach like "who let these people in? is the door wide open out there?" i mean, to each their own, that's just me, but that's how I feel software should be written, and while we're at it, give the user some input/options at runtime.
  • threeseed 4y ago
    iOS/iPadOS does allow you to have one code base that dynamically responds to screen sizes. But almost always the experience for iPad users is terrible. Which is why Apple's initial approach of forcing developers to build distinct iPad apps was the right one and a large reason why its tablets dominated the market versus Android competitors.
    • fsckboy 4y ago
      > iOS/iPadOS does allow you to have one code base that dynamically responds to screen sizes. But almost always the experience for iPad users is terrible. are you saying the tools aren't there for developers to create equally pleasing (mutatis mutandis) apps, or simply that the developers aren't able to create equally pleasing (mutatis mutandis) apps? Or that designers can't grok the mapping between their equally pleasing ideas and the tools available?
      • heisenzombie 4y ago
        A phone and a tablet are just wildly different devices. Screen size —sure— but also usage patterns, input methods, workflow conventions, etc. The “mutationes” that must be made reach deep into the functionality of an app, not just UI-level stuff. The whole purpose of the app should probably change. It’s therefore a big and challenging job to make an app scale seamlessly from one device to another. That’s irreducible complexity. The tools available will always be at best “necessary but not sufficient”.
      • zamnos 4y ago
• cma 4y ago
  Don't purchases literally work between the iPad and iOS stores in most cases?
  • scarface74 4y ago
    I have one app that doesn’t have an iPhone equivalent - Duet. But a developer can sell separate iPad versions of an app. Most don’t anymore.
• cube2222 4y ago
  It's worth noting that they assert still wanting to comply on the other platforms: > Nonetheless, Apple intends, on an entirely voluntary basis, to align each of the existing versions of the App Store (including those that do not currently meet the VLOP designation threshold) with the existing DSA requirements for VLOPs because the goals of the DSA align with Apple’s goals to protect consumers from illegal content.
  • flipbrad 4y ago
    Yes, but the regulatory fee you pay annually is calculated by reference to the in-scope service(s)' userbase, so by slicing you reduce what you pay, and your rivals end up footing more of the cost (since it's a cost-share system). Well played, Apple.
• shaky-carrousel 4y ago
  Yeah, in the EU bold strategies are pretty expensive. But sadly Apple is a slow learner.
• m3kw9 4y ago
  They wouldn’t base their strategy on numbers but function.
• mensetmanusman 4y ago
  They are very different app stores. Only android is still in the world where a tablet app is a phone app zoomed in.
  • gondaloof 4y ago
    I think you’re conflating separate issues. There’s barely any difference between iOS/iPadOS/macOS app stores. I can ship the same app for iOS and iPadOS in the same binary even. The issue you’re describing is just the lack of investment in adding multi-pane views to android apps.
  • ktta 4y ago
    There are still iPad apps that are essentially iOS apps zoomed in. X1 credit card app is something that comes to mind that I have to use