6 ms·

I'm never buying a car that can update over the air

nixgeek 4y ago
You will enjoy driving “classic” vehicles only in the near future then. Many automakers already push OTA updates, and the holdouts who had been trying to preserve a dealership and service network by saying you had to take the car in are I believe mostly moving to OTA.
throwaway5959 4y ago
I’m afraid eventually that will mean not buying a car. Wouldn’t be surprised if non-lojackable cars are banned.
- DaanDL 4y ago
  Maybe the future is not buying cars
- hellojesus 4y ago
  The real solution seems to be jamming network signals or removing the transceivers from vehicles. Some manufacturers make this easy (Ford with the transceiver under a seat), and some make it hard (Toyota where you have to pull it from behind the dashboard). I've seem people replace the antennas with resistors so the device thinks it's still working, since Toyota routes part of the speakers through it, so disabling entirely would render some of the sound in your vehicle disabled too.
- anon291 4y ago
  Luckily there is a large secondary market.
shiftpgdn 4y ago
The majority of cars with OTA updates just use a normal SIM card. You can physically remove the sim or disable it for the vast majority of them.
- nradov 4y ago
  The next generation of automotive telemetry will probably use eSIM just like the latest cell phones. There won't be a physical SIM card to remove.
  - TheLoafOfBread 4y ago
    The thing is - who is going to pay for data on the SIM? Currently OEMs want to throw the bill on the customer, while customer does not understand why he should pick up the bill, when he already has internet in the phone.
zaroth 4y ago
Your loss I guess? I absolutely love the fact that my 2018 Tesla has all the features of a 2023 Tesla. Literally hundreds of things made better about the car over the last 5 years, truly useful features that didn’t even exist when I bought it like Dashcam and Spotify, and even safety features, improved performance, and just countless little convenience features added over the years. Updates for better maps, navigation, routing, faster charging, better AutoPilot, Summon, better hard braking performance, improved pedal feel for regen, better driver profile settings and memory, better SMS integration with iPhone, vastly expanded entertainment options, better iPhone app controls, and truly could go on and on. [1] So here I have a 5 year old car with 50k miles with absolutely zero reason to consider trading it in for a new model, because it basically IS the new model. IMO it’s a major advantage of owning a Tesla is getting to enjoy truly meaningful and useful software upgrades that consistently make the car better in basically every possibly way. It’s just a different level of commitment to their customers than I think any other automaker delivers, versus the legacy “if you want new features you’ll have to buy a whole new car to get them” approach. [1] - https://www.notateslaapp.com/software-updates/history/ https://www.notateslaapp.com/software-updates/history/
- singleshot_ 4y ago
  I’m very excited for you that you like your Tesla. That sounds like a fun experience. From my perspective, everything that you are describing is software enabled and software has no place in my car. The idea behind eschewing over the air updates for your car isn’t that we like old software; it’s that we hate software and don’t want anything to do with it. Put another way, if you look at all the features that I want in a car (robust safety cell, powerful propulsion, quiet, smooth ride, rare) none of them can be upgraded without physical modifications. And in fact, once those things are achieved, there is really very little reason to change anything. In general the trend appears to be in favor of your style of consumption which is cool for you, but I for one am a little concerned that when I get a hundred or so thousand more miles on this 98 SL500 there’s going to be nothing out there I want to buy.
  - b7we5b7a 4y ago
    > Put another way, if you look at all the features that I want in a car (robust safety cell, powerful propulsion, quiet, smooth ride, rare) none of them can be upgraded without physical modifications. And in fact, once those things are achieved, there is really very little reason to change anything. disclaimer: I own a 2019 M3. IIRC Tesla's acceleration boost (powerful propulsion) upgrade essentially keeps the front engine correctly-aligned at all times to make the most out of the usually-unused torque. AEB and TACC were upgraded multiple times over the years, becoming better and better and solving issues (smooth ride). As for quietness, MS and MX got active noise reduction through software upgrades. All of this was done using existing hardware, and I didn't even mention the constant data-driven tweaking of battery pre-conditioning to allow faster charges while still extending battery life (powerful propulsion/smooth ride), or the camera features (dashcam recording, blind-spot camera pop-up, ...). Some are amazing tweaks you didn't even know you wanted, but are a constant time-saver (blinkers auto-off). I'm pretty sure that also the other high-voltage components handling also got the data-driven treatment (better regulation of currents to extend component's lifetime, for instance). These kind of software modifications were also seldom done when I brought my old ICE cars to the dealer for the regular checks - "remapping the engine parameters to better handle some cases" - but in reality I recall this happening at most once in the lifetime of the car. I believe that new features can be developed using existing hardware in new, unforeseen ways. What I agree on is that this needs to be done in a secure and non-intrusive manner. Some UI reworks were definitely controversial at first, but Tesla has a good track record of listening and adapting to user requests at least. I cannot say the same for any other brand I've had a car from.

You will enjoy driving “classic” vehicles only in the near future then. Many automakers already push OTA updates, and the holdouts who had been trying to preserve a dealership and service network by saying you had to take the car in are I believe mostly moving to OTA.

throwaway5959 4y ago

I’m afraid eventually that will mean not buying a car. Wouldn’t be surprised if non-lojackable cars are banned.

DaanDL 4y ago
Maybe the future is not buying cars
hellojesus 4y ago
The real solution seems to be jamming network signals or removing the transceivers from vehicles. Some manufacturers make this easy (Ford with the transceiver under a seat), and some make it hard (Toyota where you have to pull it from behind the dashboard). I've seem people replace the antennas with resistors so the device thinks it's still working, since Toyota routes part of the speakers through it, so disabling entirely would render some of the sound in your vehicle disabled too.
anon291 4y ago
Luckily there is a large secondary market.

shiftpgdn 4y ago

The majority of cars with OTA updates just use a normal SIM card. You can physically remove the sim or disable it for the vast majority of them.

nradov 4y ago
The next generation of automotive telemetry will probably use eSIM just like the latest cell phones. There won't be a physical SIM card to remove.
- TheLoafOfBread 4y ago
  The thing is - who is going to pay for data on the SIM? Currently OEMs want to throw the bill on the customer, while customer does not understand why he should pick up the bill, when he already has internet in the phone.

zaroth 4y ago

Your loss I guess? I absolutely love the fact that my 2018 Tesla has all the features of a 2023 Tesla. Literally hundreds of things made better about the car over the last 5 years, truly useful features that didn’t even exist when I bought it like Dashcam and Spotify, and even safety features, improved performance, and just countless little convenience features added over the years. Updates for better maps, navigation, routing, faster charging, better AutoPilot, Summon, better hard braking performance, improved pedal feel for regen, better driver profile settings and memory, better SMS integration with iPhone, vastly expanded entertainment options, better iPhone app controls, and truly could go on and on. [1] So here I have a 5 year old car with 50k miles with absolutely zero reason to consider trading it in for a new model, because it basically IS the new model. IMO it’s a major advantage of owning a Tesla is getting to enjoy truly meaningful and useful software upgrades that consistently make the car better in basically every possibly way. It’s just a different level of commitment to their customers than I think any other automaker delivers, versus the legacy “if you want new features you’ll have to buy a whole new car to get them” approach. [1] - https://www.notateslaapp.com/software-updates/history/ https://www.notateslaapp.com/software-updates/history/

singleshot_ 4y ago
I’m very excited for you that you like your Tesla. That sounds like a fun experience. From my perspective, everything that you are describing is software enabled and software has no place in my car. The idea behind eschewing over the air updates for your car isn’t that we like old software; it’s that we hate software and don’t want anything to do with it. Put another way, if you look at all the features that I want in a car (robust safety cell, powerful propulsion, quiet, smooth ride, rare) none of them can be upgraded without physical modifications. And in fact, once those things are achieved, there is really very little reason to change anything. In general the trend appears to be in favor of your style of consumption which is cool for you, but I for one am a little concerned that when I get a hundred or so thousand more miles on this 98 SL500 there’s going to be nothing out there I want to buy.
- b7we5b7a 4y ago
  > Put another way, if you look at all the features that I want in a car (robust safety cell, powerful propulsion, quiet, smooth ride, rare) none of them can be upgraded without physical modifications. And in fact, once those things are achieved, there is really very little reason to change anything. disclaimer: I own a 2019 M3. IIRC Tesla's acceleration boost (powerful propulsion) upgrade essentially keeps the front engine correctly-aligned at all times to make the most out of the usually-unused torque. AEB and TACC were upgraded multiple times over the years, becoming better and better and solving issues (smooth ride). As for quietness, MS and MX got active noise reduction through software upgrades. All of this was done using existing hardware, and I didn't even mention the constant data-driven tweaking of battery pre-conditioning to allow faster charges while still extending battery life (powerful propulsion/smooth ride), or the camera features (dashcam recording, blind-spot camera pop-up, ...). Some are amazing tweaks you didn't even know you wanted, but are a constant time-saver (blinkers auto-off). I'm pretty sure that also the other high-voltage components handling also got the data-driven treatment (better regulation of currents to extend component's lifetime, for instance). These kind of software modifications were also seldom done when I brought my old ICE cars to the dealer for the regular checks - "remapping the engine parameters to better handle some cases" - but in reality I recall this happening at most once in the lifetime of the car. I believe that new features can be developed using existing hardware in new, unforeseen ways. What I agree on is that this needs to be done in a secure and non-intrusive manner. Some UI reworks were definitely controversial at first, but Tesla has a good track record of listening and adapting to user requests at least. I cannot say the same for any other brand I've had a car from.