7 ms·

I don't know how much of the MS turnaround can be attributed to him, but if we take it at face value that the CEO is responsible for everything, then MS definit

I don't know how much of the MS turnaround can be attributed to him, but if we take it at face value that the CEO is responsible for everything, then MS definitely has had a dramatic positive run following Nadella taking the reigns from Ballmer. MS still lacks a industry leading 21st century consumer device and Nadella has not been able to change that but his bets on cloud computing, embracing of Linux and open source and the rise of VSCode are something to behold. As an "older-school" dev, I am constantly amazed that I can open a linux prompt on windows or do VSCode work with a local gui on a remote computer or inside a docker container.

steve1977 4y ago
> As an "older-school" dev I assume this means "older-school Windows dev", as none of that is new in the UNIX world.
- uberman 4y ago
  No I cut my teeth on Sun workstations.
  - steve1977 4y ago
    The Network is the Computer!
    - uberman 4y ago
      :-)
zamnos 4y ago
Balmer said it best, 'Developers, developers, developers!' And then Microsoft bought Github.
- rhaway84773 4y ago
  Ballmer may have screamed “Developers, developers, developers”, but what he actually meant was “Windows, Office, developers”. Windows and Office came before everything. The big change Nadella brought to the table was completely eliminating Windows as a primary goal for the company, and reducing Office’s importance as well.
- phkahler 4y ago
  I feel like Google would have been a better fit for Github. But then it would be about due for cancellation about now...
  - prepend 4y ago
    Google would have killed GitHub as it doesn’t earn money. Google isn’t about developers, it’s about getting data and selling ads. Microsoft needs people to build things on windows, on azure, on their APIs, etc. Google literally had the GitHub competitor, Google Code, and GitHub was only formed because google neglected Code. Remember how Google would only support mercurial over git? And of course, Google shut down Code a few years ago. I have to remind myself while Google hires lots of programmers and does lots of programming, they don’t really need anyone else to program. Microsoft needs developers.
- joelrwilliams1 4y ago
  You tell 'em, Steve...sweat-stained shirt and all... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XxbJw8PrIkc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XxbJw8PrIkc
zamnos 4y ago
> MS still lacks a industry leading 21st century consumer device The XBox division doesn't count?
- jayd16 4y ago
  Successful but not perhaps not dominant. That said, they have more market share vs Playstation than iOS has over Android.
- VWWHFSfQ 4y ago
  I don't know any numbers but I would guess that Xbox is not close to being the market leader. Sony has that wrapped. Xbox is probably closer to Nintendo. They do, however, have a competitive platform which is important. Something they could never do with Windows Phone.
  - ginko 4y ago
    > Sony has that wrapped Nintendo sold 4 Switches for every PS5 on the market.
    - felixg3 4y ago
      Given the price stability and the hardware specs, probably also a higher profit per device.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- froggychairs 4y ago
  Video game consoles are technically 20th century invention. Xbox is just a continuation of that legacy even if the brand started in 21st Xbox also isn’t top dog among the big 3. They’ve really struggled to ship big exclusive system sellers (which is a bummer. I’m a big fan of a lot of Xbox IP), so they certainly aren’t “industry leading”. Doesn’t mean the exclusives they’ve shipped aren’t good. They certainly are, just that their is no Xbox answer to God of War or Last of Us GamePass is one of the biggest success stories to come out of Xbox and is certainly the dominant game streaming service
bm-rf 4y ago
Best yet is VSCode into a docker container on a remote host. Feels like magic!
- slondr 4y ago
  Emacs has been able to edit files transparently on remote hosts for longer than vscode has existed
  - uberman 4y ago
    While I agree with this technically and I have used vi(m) for years, there is something experientially quite different about being able to use a local gui with all the mouse support and ease of use of VSCode or Sublime compared to the chording of more traditional terminal editors. I'm not knocking Emacs or Vim, they are powerful tools but to be able to show a typical first year student how to edit their code remotely using SSH/Container support in VSCode is comparatively dead simple. All the students I work with now use this strategy, much in the same way they prefer to use jupyter and pandas when they can.
    - ginko 4y ago
      Emacs had a GUI mode with mouse support since the 80s.
      - Vanit 4y ago
        Yes. Now are you going to respond to the parent's actual content? Seamless remote editing with Emacs GUI is not a thing.
        unmole 4y ago
        > Seamless remote editing with Emacs GUI is not a thing. TRAMP has been a thing for a very long time: https://www.gnu.org/software/tramp/ https://www.gnu.org/software/tramp/
        4y ago
flatiron 4y ago
WSL is amazing. I switched from Macs to thinkpads at my office and having the bells and whistles of windows MS office (lets admin macos office stinks) and vscode that opens and literally runs on Linux is amazing. No IT hassles about developers running Linux with support and VPNs and stuff. Just buy some more RAM and ship developers windows laptops has been great for the org and honestly the developers. We deploy and run on Linux and the weird quirks of macos has bit us in the past.
- ddalex 4y ago
  Apparently the Year of Linux on the Desktop has happened without anybody noticing or giving a point.
  - Tanjreeve 4y ago
    Someone wished for Linux to be a successful desktop OS on a monkey's paw.
  - rvz 4y ago
    Exactly. The best Linux Desktop distro is Windows.
    - hammyhavoc 4y ago
      Debatable as user requirements vary drastically. What might be perfect for one user might be wholly inappropriate for another.
phkahler 4y ago
>> MS still lacks a industry leading 21st century consumer device Oh but they have brought 21st century advertising and bullshit to windows devices!
voisin 4y ago
> MS still lacks a industry leading 21st century consumer device Is this a prerequisite to being a great technology company today? Or is this just one vector that some competitors choose to compete on? For example, would we say Apple isn’t a great technology company because it doesn’t have an industry leasing office suite like MS and Google?
colanderman 4y ago
> I am constantly amazed that I can open a linux prompt on windows Similarly, I'm amazed that I can build truly cross-platform .NET apps using Microsoft's own open-source tools from the Linux command line. (Apparently .NET Core, which both adopted the MIT license, and ushered in true cross-platform support, was announced later in the year that Nadella took over. [1] Not sure whether he had anything to do with it.) What an about-face from 2000-era Microsoft's embrace-extend-extinguish approach. Remember Visual J++? If you'd told me then I'd be willingly programming on a Microsoft toolchain 20 years later I would not have believed you. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.NET#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.NET#History
- __d 4y ago
  You might think it's an about-face. I suggest that it's actually just a better executed embrace.
ASalazarMX 4y ago
Just having Ballmer out had a positive effect. He wasn't a visionary, and Microsoft stagnated during his lead. It was like keeping only the bad side of Bill Gates.

steve1977 4y ago

> As an "older-school" dev I assume this means "older-school Windows dev", as none of that is new in the UNIX world.

uberman 4y ago
No I cut my teeth on Sun workstations.
- steve1977 4y ago
  The Network is the Computer!
  - uberman 4y ago
    :-)

zamnos 4y ago

Balmer said it best, 'Developers, developers, developers!' And then Microsoft bought Github.

rhaway84773 4y ago
Ballmer may have screamed “Developers, developers, developers”, but what he actually meant was “Windows, Office, developers”. Windows and Office came before everything. The big change Nadella brought to the table was completely eliminating Windows as a primary goal for the company, and reducing Office’s importance as well.
phkahler 4y ago
I feel like Google would have been a better fit for Github. But then it would be about due for cancellation about now...
- prepend 4y ago
  Google would have killed GitHub as it doesn’t earn money. Google isn’t about developers, it’s about getting data and selling ads. Microsoft needs people to build things on windows, on azure, on their APIs, etc. Google literally had the GitHub competitor, Google Code, and GitHub was only formed because google neglected Code. Remember how Google would only support mercurial over git? And of course, Google shut down Code a few years ago. I have to remind myself while Google hires lots of programmers and does lots of programming, they don’t really need anyone else to program. Microsoft needs developers.
joelrwilliams1 4y ago
You tell 'em, Steve...sweat-stained shirt and all... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XxbJw8PrIkc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XxbJw8PrIkc

zamnos 4y ago

> MS still lacks a industry leading 21st century consumer device The XBox division doesn't count?

jayd16 4y ago
Successful but not perhaps not dominant. That said, they have more market share vs Playstation than iOS has over Android.
VWWHFSfQ 4y ago
I don't know any numbers but I would guess that Xbox is not close to being the market leader. Sony has that wrapped. Xbox is probably closer to Nintendo. They do, however, have a competitive platform which is important. Something they could never do with Windows Phone.
- ginko 4y ago
  > Sony has that wrapped Nintendo sold 4 Switches for every PS5 on the market.
  - felixg3 4y ago
    Given the price stability and the hardware specs, probably also a higher profit per device.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
froggychairs 4y ago
Video game consoles are technically 20th century invention. Xbox is just a continuation of that legacy even if the brand started in 21st Xbox also isn’t top dog among the big 3. They’ve really struggled to ship big exclusive system sellers (which is a bummer. I’m a big fan of a lot of Xbox IP), so they certainly aren’t “industry leading”. Doesn’t mean the exclusives they’ve shipped aren’t good. They certainly are, just that their is no Xbox answer to God of War or Last of Us GamePass is one of the biggest success stories to come out of Xbox and is certainly the dominant game streaming service

bm-rf 4y ago

Best yet is VSCode into a docker container on a remote host. Feels like magic!

slondr 4y ago
Emacs has been able to edit files transparently on remote hosts for longer than vscode has existed
- uberman 4y ago
  While I agree with this technically and I have used vi(m) for years, there is something experientially quite different about being able to use a local gui with all the mouse support and ease of use of VSCode or Sublime compared to the chording of more traditional terminal editors. I'm not knocking Emacs or Vim, they are powerful tools but to be able to show a typical first year student how to edit their code remotely using SSH/Container support in VSCode is comparatively dead simple. All the students I work with now use this strategy, much in the same way they prefer to use jupyter and pandas when they can.
  - ginko 4y ago
    Emacs had a GUI mode with mouse support since the 80s.
    - Vanit 4y ago
      Yes. Now are you going to respond to the parent's actual content? Seamless remote editing with Emacs GUI is not a thing.
      - unmole 4y ago
        > Seamless remote editing with Emacs GUI is not a thing. TRAMP has been a thing for a very long time: https://www.gnu.org/software/tramp/ https://www.gnu.org/software/tramp/
      - 4y ago

flatiron 4y ago

WSL is amazing. I switched from Macs to thinkpads at my office and having the bells and whistles of windows MS office (lets admin macos office stinks) and vscode that opens and literally runs on Linux is amazing. No IT hassles about developers running Linux with support and VPNs and stuff. Just buy some more RAM and ship developers windows laptops has been great for the org and honestly the developers. We deploy and run on Linux and the weird quirks of macos has bit us in the past.

ddalex 4y ago
Apparently the Year of Linux on the Desktop has happened without anybody noticing or giving a point.
- Tanjreeve 4y ago
  Someone wished for Linux to be a successful desktop OS on a monkey's paw.
- rvz 4y ago
  Exactly. The best Linux Desktop distro is Windows.
  - hammyhavoc 4y ago
    Debatable as user requirements vary drastically. What might be perfect for one user might be wholly inappropriate for another.

phkahler 4y ago

>> MS still lacks a industry leading 21st century consumer device Oh but they have brought 21st century advertising and bullshit to windows devices!

voisin 4y ago

> MS still lacks a industry leading 21st century consumer device Is this a prerequisite to being a great technology company today? Or is this just one vector that some competitors choose to compete on? For example, would we say Apple isn’t a great technology company because it doesn’t have an industry leasing office suite like MS and Google?

colanderman 4y ago

> I am constantly amazed that I can open a linux prompt on windows Similarly, I'm amazed that I can build truly cross-platform .NET apps using Microsoft's own open-source tools from the Linux command line. (Apparently .NET Core, which both adopted the MIT license, and ushered in true cross-platform support, was announced later in the year that Nadella took over. [1] Not sure whether he had anything to do with it.) What an about-face from 2000-era Microsoft's embrace-extend-extinguish approach. Remember Visual J++? If you'd told me then I'd be willingly programming on a Microsoft toolchain 20 years later I would not have believed you. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.NET#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.NET#History

__d 4y ago
You might think it's an about-face. I suggest that it's actually just a better executed embrace.

ASalazarMX 4y ago

Just having Ballmer out had a positive effect. He wasn't a visionary, and Microsoft stagnated during his lead. It was like keeping only the bad side of Bill Gates.