4 ms·

I am in Japan and when my mobile net has run out I've had to use public wifi for a day or two and it's not a pretty picture. I find I can barely connect after m

by rjh29 4y ago

I am in Japan and when my mobile net has run out I've had to use public wifi for a day or two and it's not a pretty picture. I find I can barely connect after multiple tries and they drop out frequently, and often have time limits like 20 minutes on them. Usually I get a sim from the airport vending machine, or for longer trips go to Yodobashi/Bic Camera and get one, you can get 30GB for less than the cost of a month's internet at home.

yoavm 4y ago
I don't know how it works on iPhone, but on Android you can easily get a new mac address and get additional 20 minutes. Settings > Developer Options > Wi-Fi non-persistent MAC randomization. Then just forget the network and reconnect.
- jeroenhd 4y ago
  I don't know how it's managed on your phone, but I get an option per WiFi network on my phone to control whether I use a random MAC address or a my phone's.
  - yoavm 4y ago
    Yes, but AFAIK by default (Android) it will use the same random MAC address for each network. I think it is randomly generated based on the SSID, unless you tick the aforementioned option.
- circuit10 4y ago
  iOS has “Private Wi-Fi Address” which I think is the same thing
  - accrual 4y ago
    The feature creates a MAC address for each access point and rotates them after 6 weeks without joining. It would be interesting to collect some of these and see if they have anything in common - same OUI, or from a group of OUIs, or totally random, etc. > Starting with iOS 14, iPadOS 14, and watchOS 7, your device improves privacy by using a different MAC address for each Wi-Fi network. This unique MAC address is your device's private Wi-Fi address, which it uses for that network only. https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT211227 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT211227
    - yoavm 4y ago
      So if it takes 6 weeks of wait, I guess this iOS feature isn't very useful for getting 20 minutes extra...
- ranger_danger 4y ago
  If the backend to their hotspot system uses any kind of fingerprinting scheme, changing the MAC won't help you.
  - yoavm 4y ago
    What kind of fingerprinting scheme? I have never seen this on any network.
tjbiddle 4y ago
> Tokyo has five million Wi-Fi access points – and that's 20 times what the city needs, because they’re reserved for private use Unsure if you were trying to make a point to debate the article; but it appears they're specifically speaking of private networks, not public.
- tecleandor 4y ago
  I guess it's to reaffirm the article. I've also had a similar experience there on how weirdly difficult is to get WiFi access in Tokyo even if you try to pay for it, everything is tied to contracts with the main telcos.
- moffkalast 4y ago
  They don't exist in a vacuum, they all pollute the channels with noise. Public ones indubitably perform worse due to all the private ones.
  - josephg 4y ago
    Its the same in all big cities. From my kitchen I can see 23 other access points in the list. I'm sure we could pool our internet & wifi if we could coordinate, but coordination is too hard. Given how saturated the spectrum is, its remarkable how reliable wifi has become. I get occasional dropouts (maybe once or twice a day for a few seconds) but otherwise my connection is rock solid. And this is all over 802.11ac - which is super old at this point.
    - creshal 4y ago
      > And this is all over 802.11ac - which is super old at this point. Most consumers never upgrade their router, and even if it fails, telcos often send them old and outdated replacements. There's a lot of networks around that are still stuck on older technologies.
      - sgerenser 4y ago
        True about never upgrading the router, but I really can’t imagine any cable/telco sending out anything older than 802.11ac at this point. Why would they, it’s just going to cause complaints about “you sold me 100mbit but I’m only getting 33 mbits [on my old 802.11n router]!”
Liambp 4y ago
"when my mobile net has run out"? Are Japanese mobile networks stuck in the 2010s? In Europe unlimited (or at as near as makes no difference) data has become so ubiquitous that public wifi is more or less redundant.
- pxx 4y ago
  What in the world are you talking about? Taking a brief look at Airalo, it looks like it'd cost me $4-5 per gigabyte to buy an eSIM. I literally see no unlimited options on Amazon. Randomly navigating to telekom.de, I see a front page offer of €34.95 monthly for a five gigabyte plan with a 24 month contract term. orange.fr seems to do a little better with a €16.99 plan for 100 GB but it seems to be a promo rate and also requires an activation fee and a bank account statement, making it useless for tourists. Still, $5 is a lot cheaper than €16.99 even if you could get that rate. For €5 prepaid you get, I shit you not, 20 megabytes of data from Orange. https://boutique.orange.fr/vitrine/rechargements-mobile/mobicarte/#max https://boutique.orange.fr/vitrine/rechargements-mobile/mobi...
  - johnwalkr 4y ago
    Wow 20MB isn’t even enough to open Google maps, find a restaurant and navigate to its menu. Unlimited plans usually throttle you these days too. I have €60 “unlimited” from orange.lu and after 250GB it throttles to 250kbps. At this speed hacker news is usable but not much else is. It’s €20 to add another 100GB. While waiting months for home internet to be installed I tethered to this and between WFH, gaming and streaming I usually had to top up 1-2 times per month.
  - Liambp 4y ago
    Prepay is generally a better deal in UK and Ireland and often includes unlimited internet for about €20. Here is an example from Vodafone (not the cheapest by any means): https://n.vodafone.ie/shop/pay-as-you-go-plans.html https://n.vodafone.ie/shop/pay-as-you-go-plans.html €25 per month gets you unlimited data in Ireland and up to 30Gb in other EU countries including Germany. I have always thought it a bit odd that users with a monthly contract often pay more than "pay as you go pre-pay" but I think that is because it is mainly business and older people who opt for a monthly contract.
dr-detroit 4y ago
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by rjh29 4y ago

yoavm 4y ago

I don't know how it works on iPhone, but on Android you can easily get a new mac address and get additional 20 minutes. Settings > Developer Options > Wi-Fi non-persistent MAC randomization. Then just forget the network and reconnect.

jeroenhd 4y ago
I don't know how it's managed on your phone, but I get an option per WiFi network on my phone to control whether I use a random MAC address or a my phone's.
- yoavm 4y ago
  Yes, but AFAIK by default (Android) it will use the same random MAC address for each network. I think it is randomly generated based on the SSID, unless you tick the aforementioned option.
circuit10 4y ago
iOS has “Private Wi-Fi Address” which I think is the same thing
- accrual 4y ago
  The feature creates a MAC address for each access point and rotates them after 6 weeks without joining. It would be interesting to collect some of these and see if they have anything in common - same OUI, or from a group of OUIs, or totally random, etc. > Starting with iOS 14, iPadOS 14, and watchOS 7, your device improves privacy by using a different MAC address for each Wi-Fi network. This unique MAC address is your device's private Wi-Fi address, which it uses for that network only. https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT211227 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT211227
  - yoavm 4y ago
    So if it takes 6 weeks of wait, I guess this iOS feature isn't very useful for getting 20 minutes extra...
ranger_danger 4y ago
If the backend to their hotspot system uses any kind of fingerprinting scheme, changing the MAC won't help you.
- yoavm 4y ago
  What kind of fingerprinting scheme? I have never seen this on any network.

tjbiddle 4y ago

> Tokyo has five million Wi-Fi access points – and that's 20 times what the city needs, because they’re reserved for private use Unsure if you were trying to make a point to debate the article; but it appears they're specifically speaking of private networks, not public.

tecleandor 4y ago
I guess it's to reaffirm the article. I've also had a similar experience there on how weirdly difficult is to get WiFi access in Tokyo even if you try to pay for it, everything is tied to contracts with the main telcos.
moffkalast 4y ago
They don't exist in a vacuum, they all pollute the channels with noise. Public ones indubitably perform worse due to all the private ones.
- josephg 4y ago
  Its the same in all big cities. From my kitchen I can see 23 other access points in the list. I'm sure we could pool our internet & wifi if we could coordinate, but coordination is too hard. Given how saturated the spectrum is, its remarkable how reliable wifi has become. I get occasional dropouts (maybe once or twice a day for a few seconds) but otherwise my connection is rock solid. And this is all over 802.11ac - which is super old at this point.
  - creshal 4y ago
    > And this is all over 802.11ac - which is super old at this point. Most consumers never upgrade their router, and even if it fails, telcos often send them old and outdated replacements. There's a lot of networks around that are still stuck on older technologies.
    - sgerenser 4y ago
      True about never upgrading the router, but I really can’t imagine any cable/telco sending out anything older than 802.11ac at this point. Why would they, it’s just going to cause complaints about “you sold me 100mbit but I’m only getting 33 mbits [on my old 802.11n router]!”

Liambp 4y ago

"when my mobile net has run out"? Are Japanese mobile networks stuck in the 2010s? In Europe unlimited (or at as near as makes no difference) data has become so ubiquitous that public wifi is more or less redundant.

pxx 4y ago
What in the world are you talking about? Taking a brief look at Airalo, it looks like it'd cost me $4-5 per gigabyte to buy an eSIM. I literally see no unlimited options on Amazon. Randomly navigating to telekom.de, I see a front page offer of €34.95 monthly for a five gigabyte plan with a 24 month contract term. orange.fr seems to do a little better with a €16.99 plan for 100 GB but it seems to be a promo rate and also requires an activation fee and a bank account statement, making it useless for tourists. Still, $5 is a lot cheaper than €16.99 even if you could get that rate. For €5 prepaid you get, I shit you not, 20 megabytes of data from Orange. https://boutique.orange.fr/vitrine/rechargements-mobile/mobicarte/#max https://boutique.orange.fr/vitrine/rechargements-mobile/mobi...
- johnwalkr 4y ago
  Wow 20MB isn’t even enough to open Google maps, find a restaurant and navigate to its menu. Unlimited plans usually throttle you these days too. I have €60 “unlimited” from orange.lu and after 250GB it throttles to 250kbps. At this speed hacker news is usable but not much else is. It’s €20 to add another 100GB. While waiting months for home internet to be installed I tethered to this and between WFH, gaming and streaming I usually had to top up 1-2 times per month.
- Liambp 4y ago
  Prepay is generally a better deal in UK and Ireland and often includes unlimited internet for about €20. Here is an example from Vodafone (not the cheapest by any means): https://n.vodafone.ie/shop/pay-as-you-go-plans.html https://n.vodafone.ie/shop/pay-as-you-go-plans.html €25 per month gets you unlimited data in Ireland and up to 30Gb in other EU countries including Germany. I have always thought it a bit odd that users with a monthly contract often pay more than "pay as you go pre-pay" but I think that is because it is mainly business and older people who opt for a monthly contract.

dr-detroit 4y ago

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