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A permanent residency (PR) in Berlin does not require German language skills anymore. Maybe this is official or just established practice but regardless, there’

A permanent residency (PR) in Berlin does not require German language skills anymore. Maybe this is official or just established practice but regardless, there’a no reason not to have your PR if you qualify otherwise.

snassar 3y ago
Where do you have this information from? The State of Berlin says otherwise https://service.berlin.de/dienstleistung/121864/en/ https://service.berlin.de/dienstleistung/121864/en/ : ------ Sufficient knowledge of German You must have an adequate command of the German language (level B 1 of the Common European Framework of Reference for Languages). If you were in possession of either a residence permit or a residence authorisation on 31/12/2004, you only have to demonstrate basic knowledge of the German language (level A 1) to be granted a permanent settlement permit. ------ In practice the staff giving interviewing you have leeway to assess your German level on the spot, but applying without demonstrated adequate German levels could lead to wasting ones time.
- AdamN 3y ago
  That's for non-EU citizens. There are 360MM non-German EU citizens - some of which are living in Berlin visa-free.
  - bolanyo 3y ago
    There has never been any language requirement for EU citizens to live in Germany or anywhere else, ever since freedom of movement was established.
  - netsharc 3y ago
    Some? Wouldn't they all be visa free? Yeah, that page is for non-EU-ians, because if you're from the EU, due to freedom of movement, you can live and work in any other EU country, and you don't even need to apply for a "permanent resident permit".
    - PeterisP 3y ago
      Well, most of these 360MM non-German EU citizens don't live in Berlin or Germany at all, only some of them do.
MandieD 3y ago
Immigration is even more of a local matter than I thought it was! I was used to each town having its own immigration office, and the slightly different levels of service and organization, but thought that the B1 exam or degree from a German-speaking university was a national requirement for a Niederlassungserlaubnis.
deleted 3y ago
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vr46 3y ago
I was at the local immigration office only a few weeks ago and German language skills are still very much required for PR. One doesn't need it for the family reunion visa and work permit, but does for PR. There is talk of dropping this requirement, but I'll believe it when I see it.
- friendlyHornet 3y ago
  > There is talk of dropping this requirement, but I'll believe it when I see it. I really hope it doesn't get dropped; it is unreasonable to live permanently in a country without speaking the local language There are other types of residencies available if someone is an expat and doesn't plan on staying permanently And it's not like they're asking for a high fluency; with B1, you can barely hold a simple coherent conversation
  - AdamN 3y ago
    Germany doesn't really have permanent residency - it's more like 'indefinite' residency that is revoked when you leave the country for too long. So basically what you're saying is that after a few years you need B1 to stay. It's not unreasonable but of course will have an impact on the economy and society just like any other large decision. I live in Berlin and am A2, with my North Star being B2 German and am a US Citizen with no intention to switch to German citizenship. I'd like to not get kicked out though. The real caveat though is that many of the people in Berlin who don't speak B1+ German are EU citizens and do not need a visa to live here.
    - rocketbop 3y ago
      > Germany doesn't really have permanent residency - it's more like 'indefinite' residency that is revoked when you leave the country for too long. That's the same as the US green card, and Australian permanent residency, and I assume most others.
      - AdamN 3y ago
        I'm starting to call all of those 'indefinite residency' as well. I'd be interested to know of visas that do offer stronger residency that is more permanent than these but not quite citizenship.
caporaltito 3y ago
> A permanent residency (PR) in Berlin does not require German language skills anymore. Of course it does

snassar 3y ago

Where do you have this information from? The State of Berlin says otherwise https://service.berlin.de/dienstleistung/121864/en/ https://service.berlin.de/dienstleistung/121864/en/ : ------ Sufficient knowledge of German You must have an adequate command of the German language (level B 1 of the Common European Framework of Reference for Languages). If you were in possession of either a residence permit or a residence authorisation on 31/12/2004, you only have to demonstrate basic knowledge of the German language (level A 1) to be granted a permanent settlement permit. ------ In practice the staff giving interviewing you have leeway to assess your German level on the spot, but applying without demonstrated adequate German levels could lead to wasting ones time.

AdamN 3y ago
That's for non-EU citizens. There are 360MM non-German EU citizens - some of which are living in Berlin visa-free.
- bolanyo 3y ago
  There has never been any language requirement for EU citizens to live in Germany or anywhere else, ever since freedom of movement was established.
- netsharc 3y ago
  Some? Wouldn't they all be visa free? Yeah, that page is for non-EU-ians, because if you're from the EU, due to freedom of movement, you can live and work in any other EU country, and you don't even need to apply for a "permanent resident permit".
  - PeterisP 3y ago
    Well, most of these 360MM non-German EU citizens don't live in Berlin or Germany at all, only some of them do.

MandieD 3y ago

Immigration is even more of a local matter than I thought it was! I was used to each town having its own immigration office, and the slightly different levels of service and organization, but thought that the B1 exam or degree from a German-speaking university was a national requirement for a Niederlassungserlaubnis.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

vr46 3y ago

I was at the local immigration office only a few weeks ago and German language skills are still very much required for PR. One doesn't need it for the family reunion visa and work permit, but does for PR. There is talk of dropping this requirement, but I'll believe it when I see it.

friendlyHornet 3y ago
> There is talk of dropping this requirement, but I'll believe it when I see it. I really hope it doesn't get dropped; it is unreasonable to live permanently in a country without speaking the local language There are other types of residencies available if someone is an expat and doesn't plan on staying permanently And it's not like they're asking for a high fluency; with B1, you can barely hold a simple coherent conversation
- AdamN 3y ago
  Germany doesn't really have permanent residency - it's more like 'indefinite' residency that is revoked when you leave the country for too long. So basically what you're saying is that after a few years you need B1 to stay. It's not unreasonable but of course will have an impact on the economy and society just like any other large decision. I live in Berlin and am A2, with my North Star being B2 German and am a US Citizen with no intention to switch to German citizenship. I'd like to not get kicked out though. The real caveat though is that many of the people in Berlin who don't speak B1+ German are EU citizens and do not need a visa to live here.
  - rocketbop 3y ago
    > Germany doesn't really have permanent residency - it's more like 'indefinite' residency that is revoked when you leave the country for too long. That's the same as the US green card, and Australian permanent residency, and I assume most others.
    - AdamN 3y ago
      I'm starting to call all of those 'indefinite residency' as well. I'd be interested to know of visas that do offer stronger residency that is more permanent than these but not quite citizenship.

caporaltito 3y ago

> A permanent residency (PR) in Berlin does not require German language skills anymore. Of course it does