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I like a big display with buttons on the side. I like getting to see the song name, the station and some of that digital info, I like Apple Maps on Apple car pl

I like a big display with buttons on the side. I like getting to see the song name, the station and some of that digital info, I like Apple Maps on Apple car play. Those are nice features. I love the back up camera display. But I have to have a button or knob to adjust temp, audio, next track, etc... because while those things are helpful, when I'm going down the highway and I need to adjust while paying attention jumping between screens and the road sucksssssss

rdiddly 3y ago
Yeah seems like physical controls for input, screen for output is the sweet spot.
- hunter2_ 3y ago
  It'll be interesting to see how Android Auto / Apple Car Play adopt physical controls, if at all. I guess at a basic level a rotary encoder could emulate a "tab" key when rotated and an "enter" key when pushed (keyboard support already exists in the mobile OS, of course). Until then, at least they have great voice input.
  - nkrisc 3y ago
    Car Play in my Mazda3 works just great with the knob control. I much prefer it than the touch-only controls in my Forester. In fact I’d go so far as to say it’s the best physical option. For example, when I’m listening to a podcast I can turn the knob to highlight the skip forward button, and leave it there. Then when adds come on I can just feel for and press the knob without looking at the screen. In the Forester I have to awkwardly hold my arm out, breaking my hand with my thumb while I try to hit the right button. Usually I don’t bother because it feels too unsafe. You can change what the forward/back buttons on the steering wheel do, such as changing them to skip, but then I’m In the same situation when I want to go to the next podcast or skip a few.
  - kyralis 3y ago
    Apple's Car Play has supported that from the beginning, since many of the first adopter cars didn't actually have touch screens, just screens.
    - hunter2_ 3y ago
      Ah! Of all the cars I've owned (1) and rented (3+) that have it, all have had only touch screen input to it, as far as I noticed. Brb while I see if the Tune knob in my VW does anything in AA...
  - NoZebra120vClip 3y ago
    I'm not exactly sure how it works, but mobile OS accessibility layers provide support for "switch" devices which are used by disabled people. So I don't know if this is limited to on/off switches, or variable knobs as well, but this may be the same sort of principle that would guide a car-based OS interface with physical controls on the dash.
  - p0ckets 3y ago
    That's basically what Audi has (at least in some older models): it's a scroll wheel that also works as a d-pad. It works pretty well with Android Auto (no experience with Apple Car Play). Mazda also has a similar-looking interface. But it seems those two companies are moving towards touchscreens due to market demand.
- JauntyHatAngle 3y ago
  I think you can go more detailed on that and say physical controls for common, quick inputs especially ones people use while they are driving and you don't want them to look down for. Touch screen is fine for setup screens, extra info, fine tuning stuff etc. Point is when I'm driving down the road I should be able to muscle memory/tactily skip song, change volume, change air-conditioning settings etc... But Bluetooth settings... changing colour of display, changing voice assistant tone... leave that on the touch screen. Don't need it.
  - DJBunnies 3y ago
    Just to offer a different opinion, I prefer inferior controls to a touchscreen for settings. Wheels and buttons respond faster, it forces vendors to be concise, and it doesn’t gunk up my screen. Muscle memory forms quickly for anything that’s a “one and done” setting.
    - tnzk 3y ago
      But I hate "push the volumn knob N times to intiate BT pairing, read carefully the alnum code displayed in 7 segment LED" ...
      - frosted-flakes 3y ago
        You hate modal interfaces then. A non-modal interface would initiate pairing with a fixed button, this button would do the same thing every time, and it wouldn't require other inputs. Perhaps A, B, C buttons for three connections, where pressing once auto-connects to the previously saved device and holding initiates pairing (like a radio favourites button). A non-modal interface for controlling audio settings (volume, bass, treble, etc.) would be one knob for each function—not one knob which changes function when you click it, or having to dig seven layers deep through in a touch screen menu. I change audio settings all the time on my car depending on what I'm listening to, because there are 6 knobs for this (big volume knob, small knobs for bass/mid/treble/balance/fader.[1] Modal interfaces in cars are bad because their results are unpredictable. Touch screens are bad because they allow for non-modal interfaces, and also because they're not tactile. [1] https://d3inagkmqs1m6q.cloudfront.net/1517/media-photos/cp047456-stock-head-unit-radio-premium-6-vw-jetta-golf-mk4-passat-b55-1jm-035-157-p.jpg https://d3inagkmqs1m6q.cloudfront.net/1517/media-photos/cp04...
- emmelaich 3y ago
  On the Tesla3, I use the on-wheel buttons for everything I need while driving. If I really need to i.e. hunt for a particular radio station I'll do it when stopped. I expected to dislike the screen but it's fine.
  - ryantgtg 3y ago
    Same for me. I very rarely touch the screen while driving. And then after I do I’m like, “why didn’t I just a voice control for that?” I was pretty worried about getting a tesla because of the screen/controls, and I spent months only considering other brands. But! No regrets.
    - seb1204 3y ago
      Do you also do AC control via voice?
      - Zanni 3y ago
        Tesla support this. "Set temperature to 70."
        ryantgtg 3y ago
        Yeah, AC is usually the only thing I touch the screen for. And since they have such good voice commands for it I’m trying to get in that groove. But, I don’t drive every day, and when I do it’s usually a short trip, so I’m slow to build the habits. AC voice command examples https://www.tesla.com/support/voice-commands https://www.tesla.com/support/voice-commands A generic command like “make it warmer” will bump it up 3 degrees.
- clnq 3y ago
  Our car UX is becoming terrible for both touchscreens and physical controls. It could benefit from simplification a lot, and I think Tesla had many good ideas, even if they might have over-committed to the touchscreen. For example, VW cars often have multiple knobs and buttons just for controlling the AC, which is far too complicated. If the car is electric, one might also need to put it into a regular mode (non-eco) to use AC and heating through a dedicated button/menu option. A better solution would be to emulate electric mirror adjustments, incorporating all climate control functions into one single knob - up-down for fan speed, left-right for temperature, and clockwise-ccw for zone/area. Similarly, gear shifters come in various forms, such as buttons, levers, and sticks, or a combination of both, creating confusion. For example, it's common for AT vehicles to have a parking mode on the gear shifter, but also a parking brake button or lever. Sometimes drive, neutral, and parking are buttons, but there is a lever for multiple drive modes. The most dangerous configuration so far I've seen is where D and R buttons are next to each other. Electric cars, in particular, should only require a simple but clear switch between forward and reverse as their pedals already can stop and go, and many will be effectively parked if fully stopped, they won't roll. Head units are also problematic with unclear and inconsistent button labels like "Media", "Source", "Input", "Map", "Nav", "Car", sometimes different on the head unit and the steering wheel. In some cases, like Porsches, there are over 60 buttons within the driver's reach, making it difficult to operate without looking. This is not much better than a touchscreen, it totally distracts you from the road. I would even say that any interface with more than 4-5 buttons in a row that feel the same isn't much better than a touchscreen. All these issues may not be as pronounced for those familiar with their own cars and are easier to see in rentals. And perhaps they are not big issues, there is still very significant room for UX improvement. I would like to see more cars go in the way of Tesla and remove a lot that is not necessary. This is not to say that they can't keep buttons. But as I said, climate control could be one knob, the automatic transmission selector could be another. If the parking brake will be electronic, just make the car automatically engage it when parked and turned off. The content shown/played on the media unit could be controlled by another knob - up/down for modes and input sources, left-right to skip tracks or tune radio stations, clockwise-ccw for volume. And then sure, the rest can be on the touchscreen. To sum up - many buttons (especially when mislabelled or when they handle the same function in combination with other inputs) are also attention-grabbing and inconvenient. Buttons or touchscreens - the UX in cars can be improved a lot.
derefr 3y ago
Imagine an iPod-like scrubwheel positioned so that your thumb can scroll while your hands are at 10 and 2.
- gonzo41 3y ago
  Imagine paying attention to the road and not needing to look at radio to be able to do everything.
- ninkendo 3y ago
  It’s the distraction of having to pay attention to where you are in the UI navigation that sucks… tactile buttons on the wheel wouldn’t fix this if you only get to use them as a proxy for the same UI navigation. Physical buttons for common car features should be non-modal and not context dependent, and in a consistent location you can memorize without looking. You should be able to pause the music without having to navigate to some UI submenu first. Same with climate control, volume, etc.
- midoridensha 3y ago
  Which is useless when you put your hands at 9 and 3 like you're supposed to.
  - defrost 3y ago
    ... with the caveat that > 10 and 2 o’clock is no longer recommended because it can be dangerous in vehicles with smaller steering wheels and equipped with airbags. (Source: https://driving-tests.org/beginner-drivers/how-to-hold-a-steering-wheel/ https://driving-tests.org/beginner-drivers/how-to-hold-a-ste...) and the implication that otherwise the trad 10 and 2 position recommended for decades is still 100% A-OK.
    - imafish 3y ago
      Not sure about GP - but in my country they teach the 9 and 3 position when you take your license. I’ve always thought 10 and 2 was an American thing.
saiya-jin 3y ago
Laser projection on windshield is by far the best invention in car security in past decades for me. I would make it mandatory in all new cars, much more important than over-turbocharged tiny fragile engines that have low consumption only on paper. I literally don't lose sight of outside situation for hours. I have all the info I usually need - current speed, limit, any navigation info if I don't use google maps, selection of songs. Few buttons to control things on steering wheel is all you need. And yes touchscreens were and are crap, didn't like first Teslas exactly due to that, while crowds were hyped how new and cool it looked, ignoring practicality and safety issues.
johnwalkr 3y ago
One of the best things about carplay is you can use your phone to input your destination instead of the crappy touchscreen in your car.
boring_twenties 3y ago
I'm pretty thrilled with my '23 BMW. Not only are there buttons and knobs for most of the obvious things (temperature, volume, etc.) but even the infotainment is controllable by buttons and a joystick+knob+touchpad. I virtually never touch the screen itself. For some bizarre reason, they do have a separate single row of touch "buttons" for a few functions, namely, seat heating and ventilation, which whatever, but also fan speed. Not the hugest deal, but just why? They were so close!

rdiddly 3y ago

Yeah seems like physical controls for input, screen for output is the sweet spot.

hunter2_ 3y ago
It'll be interesting to see how Android Auto / Apple Car Play adopt physical controls, if at all. I guess at a basic level a rotary encoder could emulate a "tab" key when rotated and an "enter" key when pushed (keyboard support already exists in the mobile OS, of course). Until then, at least they have great voice input.
- nkrisc 3y ago
  Car Play in my Mazda3 works just great with the knob control. I much prefer it than the touch-only controls in my Forester. In fact I’d go so far as to say it’s the best physical option. For example, when I’m listening to a podcast I can turn the knob to highlight the skip forward button, and leave it there. Then when adds come on I can just feel for and press the knob without looking at the screen. In the Forester I have to awkwardly hold my arm out, breaking my hand with my thumb while I try to hit the right button. Usually I don’t bother because it feels too unsafe. You can change what the forward/back buttons on the steering wheel do, such as changing them to skip, but then I’m In the same situation when I want to go to the next podcast or skip a few.
- kyralis 3y ago
  Apple's Car Play has supported that from the beginning, since many of the first adopter cars didn't actually have touch screens, just screens.
  - hunter2_ 3y ago
    Ah! Of all the cars I've owned (1) and rented (3+) that have it, all have had only touch screen input to it, as far as I noticed. Brb while I see if the Tune knob in my VW does anything in AA...
- NoZebra120vClip 3y ago
  I'm not exactly sure how it works, but mobile OS accessibility layers provide support for "switch" devices which are used by disabled people. So I don't know if this is limited to on/off switches, or variable knobs as well, but this may be the same sort of principle that would guide a car-based OS interface with physical controls on the dash.
- p0ckets 3y ago
  That's basically what Audi has (at least in some older models): it's a scroll wheel that also works as a d-pad. It works pretty well with Android Auto (no experience with Apple Car Play). Mazda also has a similar-looking interface. But it seems those two companies are moving towards touchscreens due to market demand.
JauntyHatAngle 3y ago
I think you can go more detailed on that and say physical controls for common, quick inputs especially ones people use while they are driving and you don't want them to look down for. Touch screen is fine for setup screens, extra info, fine tuning stuff etc. Point is when I'm driving down the road I should be able to muscle memory/tactily skip song, change volume, change air-conditioning settings etc... But Bluetooth settings... changing colour of display, changing voice assistant tone... leave that on the touch screen. Don't need it.
- DJBunnies 3y ago
  Just to offer a different opinion, I prefer inferior controls to a touchscreen for settings. Wheels and buttons respond faster, it forces vendors to be concise, and it doesn’t gunk up my screen. Muscle memory forms quickly for anything that’s a “one and done” setting.
  - tnzk 3y ago
    But I hate "push the volumn knob N times to intiate BT pairing, read carefully the alnum code displayed in 7 segment LED" ...
    - frosted-flakes 3y ago
      You hate modal interfaces then. A non-modal interface would initiate pairing with a fixed button, this button would do the same thing every time, and it wouldn't require other inputs. Perhaps A, B, C buttons for three connections, where pressing once auto-connects to the previously saved device and holding initiates pairing (like a radio favourites button). A non-modal interface for controlling audio settings (volume, bass, treble, etc.) would be one knob for each function—not one knob which changes function when you click it, or having to dig seven layers deep through in a touch screen menu. I change audio settings all the time on my car depending on what I'm listening to, because there are 6 knobs for this (big volume knob, small knobs for bass/mid/treble/balance/fader.[1] Modal interfaces in cars are bad because their results are unpredictable. Touch screens are bad because they allow for non-modal interfaces, and also because they're not tactile. [1] https://d3inagkmqs1m6q.cloudfront.net/1517/media-photos/cp047456-stock-head-unit-radio-premium-6-vw-jetta-golf-mk4-passat-b55-1jm-035-157-p.jpg https://d3inagkmqs1m6q.cloudfront.net/1517/media-photos/cp04...
emmelaich 3y ago
On the Tesla3, I use the on-wheel buttons for everything I need while driving. If I really need to i.e. hunt for a particular radio station I'll do it when stopped. I expected to dislike the screen but it's fine.
- ryantgtg 3y ago
  Same for me. I very rarely touch the screen while driving. And then after I do I’m like, “why didn’t I just a voice control for that?” I was pretty worried about getting a tesla because of the screen/controls, and I spent months only considering other brands. But! No regrets.
  - seb1204 3y ago
    Do you also do AC control via voice?
    - Zanni 3y ago
      Tesla support this. "Set temperature to 70."
      - ryantgtg 3y ago
        Yeah, AC is usually the only thing I touch the screen for. And since they have such good voice commands for it I’m trying to get in that groove. But, I don’t drive every day, and when I do it’s usually a short trip, so I’m slow to build the habits. AC voice command examples https://www.tesla.com/support/voice-commands https://www.tesla.com/support/voice-commands A generic command like “make it warmer” will bump it up 3 degrees.
clnq 3y ago
Our car UX is becoming terrible for both touchscreens and physical controls. It could benefit from simplification a lot, and I think Tesla had many good ideas, even if they might have over-committed to the touchscreen. For example, VW cars often have multiple knobs and buttons just for controlling the AC, which is far too complicated. If the car is electric, one might also need to put it into a regular mode (non-eco) to use AC and heating through a dedicated button/menu option. A better solution would be to emulate electric mirror adjustments, incorporating all climate control functions into one single knob - up-down for fan speed, left-right for temperature, and clockwise-ccw for zone/area. Similarly, gear shifters come in various forms, such as buttons, levers, and sticks, or a combination of both, creating confusion. For example, it's common for AT vehicles to have a parking mode on the gear shifter, but also a parking brake button or lever. Sometimes drive, neutral, and parking are buttons, but there is a lever for multiple drive modes. The most dangerous configuration so far I've seen is where D and R buttons are next to each other. Electric cars, in particular, should only require a simple but clear switch between forward and reverse as their pedals already can stop and go, and many will be effectively parked if fully stopped, they won't roll. Head units are also problematic with unclear and inconsistent button labels like "Media", "Source", "Input", "Map", "Nav", "Car", sometimes different on the head unit and the steering wheel. In some cases, like Porsches, there are over 60 buttons within the driver's reach, making it difficult to operate without looking. This is not much better than a touchscreen, it totally distracts you from the road. I would even say that any interface with more than 4-5 buttons in a row that feel the same isn't much better than a touchscreen. All these issues may not be as pronounced for those familiar with their own cars and are easier to see in rentals. And perhaps they are not big issues, there is still very significant room for UX improvement. I would like to see more cars go in the way of Tesla and remove a lot that is not necessary. This is not to say that they can't keep buttons. But as I said, climate control could be one knob, the automatic transmission selector could be another. If the parking brake will be electronic, just make the car automatically engage it when parked and turned off. The content shown/played on the media unit could be controlled by another knob - up/down for modes and input sources, left-right to skip tracks or tune radio stations, clockwise-ccw for volume. And then sure, the rest can be on the touchscreen. To sum up - many buttons (especially when mislabelled or when they handle the same function in combination with other inputs) are also attention-grabbing and inconvenient. Buttons or touchscreens - the UX in cars can be improved a lot.

derefr 3y ago

Imagine an iPod-like scrubwheel positioned so that your thumb can scroll while your hands are at 10 and 2.

gonzo41 3y ago
Imagine paying attention to the road and not needing to look at radio to be able to do everything.
ninkendo 3y ago
It’s the distraction of having to pay attention to where you are in the UI navigation that sucks… tactile buttons on the wheel wouldn’t fix this if you only get to use them as a proxy for the same UI navigation. Physical buttons for common car features should be non-modal and not context dependent, and in a consistent location you can memorize without looking. You should be able to pause the music without having to navigate to some UI submenu first. Same with climate control, volume, etc.
midoridensha 3y ago
Which is useless when you put your hands at 9 and 3 like you're supposed to.
- defrost 3y ago
  ... with the caveat that > 10 and 2 o’clock is no longer recommended because it can be dangerous in vehicles with smaller steering wheels and equipped with airbags. (Source: https://driving-tests.org/beginner-drivers/how-to-hold-a-steering-wheel/ https://driving-tests.org/beginner-drivers/how-to-hold-a-ste...) and the implication that otherwise the trad 10 and 2 position recommended for decades is still 100% A-OK.
  - imafish 3y ago
    Not sure about GP - but in my country they teach the 9 and 3 position when you take your license. I’ve always thought 10 and 2 was an American thing.

saiya-jin 3y ago

Laser projection on windshield is by far the best invention in car security in past decades for me. I would make it mandatory in all new cars, much more important than over-turbocharged tiny fragile engines that have low consumption only on paper. I literally don't lose sight of outside situation for hours. I have all the info I usually need - current speed, limit, any navigation info if I don't use google maps, selection of songs. Few buttons to control things on steering wheel is all you need. And yes touchscreens were and are crap, didn't like first Teslas exactly due to that, while crowds were hyped how new and cool it looked, ignoring practicality and safety issues.

johnwalkr 3y ago

One of the best things about carplay is you can use your phone to input your destination instead of the crappy touchscreen in your car.

boring_twenties 3y ago

I'm pretty thrilled with my '23 BMW. Not only are there buttons and knobs for most of the obvious things (temperature, volume, etc.) but even the infotainment is controllable by buttons and a joystick+knob+touchpad. I virtually never touch the screen itself. For some bizarre reason, they do have a separate single row of touch "buttons" for a few functions, namely, seat heating and ventilation, which whatever, but also fan speed. Not the hugest deal, but just why? They were so close!