6 ms·

I've got two houses across two states where any one us (four) can be at any time. If they start blocking based on IP geo-location, I'll drop them immediately.

alam2000 4y ago
[dead]
debian3 4y ago
They will. That’s basically what their new policy is blocking.
oefnak 4y ago
> money for two houses > no money for separate accounts for family members
- gnicholas 4y ago
  That's not what GP said. GP complained about having to pay as if there were multiple households benefiting, when it's actually just one household, albeit a wealthy one. If NFLX said "we're going to start charging rich people more, based on zip code," there would be a revolt. I would assume it's not their intention to try to "go after" this segment and make them pay more (since it's a small portion of their users, and the revenue opportunity is small), but they've undoubtedly thought about this possibility and the unfairness it creates.
  - tobyjsullivan 4y ago
    To be fair, this seems like a very convenient redefining of "household". If a household can, quite literally, span two houses (and states!), then what does household actually mean? Edit: double checked and Netflix today is clear that plans are for a single "household". No idea if that language has changed over time but I vaguely recall them always referring to multiple "devices", not people.
    - gnicholas 4y ago
      According to a dictionary, "household" means: > those who dwell under the same roof and compose a family; also: a social unit composed of those living together in the same dwelling [1] It seems more focused on the family unit rather than where they're located. If a household goes on vacation, are they not still a household when they are at their hotel? Why is it different if they're at a condo, which they own? Disclosure: not that it matters, but I do not have a second home. 1: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/household https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/household
      - taeric 4y ago
        I'm curious how you read that and don't see the words "roof" and "same dwelling"? Because... that seems far more focused on where they are located than not? Only thing it is excluding is multiple family units all living in a shared building are not one household.
        ChoGGi 4y ago
        I will be curious to see what happens to families living in RVs.
        taeric 4y ago
        Apologies for missing this. I'm not clear what you mean. They already have the worst services of any "household" you can imagine. Such that I don't see it changing much?
        gnicholas 4y ago
        Oh, I absolutely see that limitation. But as I mentioned in my example, a "household" does not cease to exist when it leaves that shared roof. The group is defined based on where they live, regardless of whether they are together at any given moment, or if they are under a different roof together (and whether that different roof is part of a hotel, condo, or vacation home).
  - brokenmachine 4y ago
    >If NFLX said "we're going to start charging rich people more, based on zip code," there would be a revolt. Not in the poor houses, and the rich ones would pay anyway because they're rich and price inelastic. So I doubt there'd be a revolt.
    - gnicholas 4y ago
      I would hypothesize a revolt for two reasons. First, it would violate people's general sense of fairness that a product is being sold at different prices to different customers. Wealthy people (who are perhaps above-average in terms of retention) would leave to go to other services that they perceive to be fairer. Second, it would be difficult to avoid overinclusive/underinclusive issues. For example, someone who lives in a studio apartment in a zip code with many large expensive homes would feel they are being clumped with people who are not like them. Is it hypothetically possible to avoid these outcomes? Sure, but it would take a ton of work, and would likely outweigh the benefit of differential pricing.
  - zaphirplane 4y ago
    You think The people will demand to pay more to subsidize the rich. I love your optimism and altruism
  - copperx 4y ago
    > If NFLX said "we're going to start charging rich people more, based on zip code," there would be a revolt. Revolt? Price discrimination is illegal.
    - anonymousiam 4y ago
      Tell that to the California power companies: https://californiaglobe.com/articles/income-based-electric-rate-system-proposed-by-california-energy-companies/ https://californiaglobe.com/articles/income-based-electric-r...
- mathgeek 4y ago
  Your comment adds nothing useful to the discussion, as GP never said it was a matter of cost. I am in the same boat and it’s about convenience and/or the loss of what we currently have. Netflix both raised prices and reduced what you get.
  - Firmwarrior 4y ago
    Yeah, it's not a matter of angry feelings, it's just a cost-benefit analysis I'm guessing they aren't actually going to put this into action in the USA, but we'll see how it goes I'd personally be fine with paying for 5 different streaming video services, but my wife is too frugal and makes me cancel one when I start another.. presumably a lot of people are in the same boat, and would look at this as a good opportunity to try out Disney+, HBO Max, etc
    - _zzaw 4y ago
      Just curious, what makes you think they won't do it here? I think they're 100% greedy enough to do it here. And at that point, I'll cancel. I've already kind of accustomed my parents to it by reminding them that it takes them half an hour to find anything that they even want to watch on Netflix.
      - Firmwarrior 4y ago
        I just think they'll play around with it in smaller regions to see the effect and run a cost-benefit analysis before they risk angering their primary money maker
  - zaphirplane 4y ago
    I disagree, if cracking down on friends and different households sharing passwords means I get it cheaper than I’m ok with that. Their implementation allows people to use their tablet / phone / setup box/ streaming device in multiple locations. Since the technology isn’t available to cater for people living and paying for multiple house holds the options are everyone pays extra or the very very few people that can afford it or an anomaly pay extra To be frank for the case of someone living 6 months here 6 months there They can sign-up and cancel cause it’s a month by month subscription
- parsimo2010 4y ago
  A Netflix account is supposed to be one per family, it was never supposed to be tied to an individual person. Who in their right mind would assume that a package that allowed four simultaneous streams would be for a single person watching four shows at once? No, it’s clearly supposed to be that one account covers multiple people. GP is fine to complain whether they have enough money for two houses at once. What about kids who have divorced parents and stay at a different house on the weekend? Do they need to get two separate accounts because “their parents can afford two houses?”
  - astura 4y ago
    >A Netflix account is supposed to be one per family, it was never supposed to be tied to an individual person. Who in their right mind would assume that a package that allowed four simultaneous streams would be for a single person watching four shows at once? Like cable, internet connection, or Costco membership - it's per household not per family.
    - parsimo2010 4y ago
      The addition of "household" is a new addition they made, likely coupled with this change in direction about password sharing. The word household does not appear in archived versions of their page discussing streaming plans. 2017 (https://archive.is/KFZtP https://archive.is/KFZtP) "No matter which plan you choose, you can install the Netflix app on as many devices as you want, and enjoy as many TV shows and movies as you want, anytime, anywhere." In 2017, not only were they not talking about households, they were explicitly bragging about how you can watch on any device in multiple locations, which conflicts with the concept of a household they are pushing now. 2021 (https://archive.is/OzbRU https://archive.is/OzbRU) "The plan you choose will determine the number of devices that you can watch Netflix on at the same time. With all of our plans, you can download the Netflix app on all your favorite devices and watch unlimited movies and TV shows." But now in 2023 (https://help.netflix.com/en/node/24926 https://help.netflix.com/en/node/24926) "As a Netflix member, you are charged monthly on the date you signed up. A Netflix account is for people who live together in a single household. Learn more about sharing Netflix."
    - 4y ago
macjohnmcc 4y ago
Hulu Live TV is even better regarding location. I have it and had Google Fiber and AT&T fiber at the same address. If I watched live on one it would report on the other than the home location changed and it only gives you so many of those for free before they prevent you from viewing the content (Live TV) you pay them for. So it's only IP and no taking into consideration geo-location at all.
jeroen 4y ago
I don’t have a static ip-address. I am curious to see how they will deal with that.
- ilyt 4y ago
  I'd imagine they stick some kind of device fingerprint and only start bothering user if there is too many of new devices that never share same network. Or maybe ping lan for other netflix app. Or remember the MAC address of router or something.
  - SpaghettiCthulu 4y ago
    > Or maybe ping lan for other netflix app. Or remember the MAC address of router or something. Things that an app or website shouldn't even be able to do without clear permissions.
    - ilyt 4y ago
      https://amiunique.org/ https://amiunique.org/ is fun thing to look at. Thankfully getting MAC of router or other similar network stuff would be hard from browser.
- gnicholas 4y ago
  Perhaps you have to designate a primary device, and then any of the secondary devices that access from the same IP can migrate for X weeks/months before having to be on the same IP as the primary?
  - nasmorn 4y ago
    That is going to be quite the schlep with his second houses tv every couple of weeks. I would cancel too
    - gnicholas 4y ago
      I assume he wouldn't care if TVs in other homes stay logged in when he's not there. As long as they work when he visits, wouldn't that be enough? It could be annoying if another family member goes there for a week and it won't log in because the primary device isn't present.
chatmasta 4y ago
You sure? That hasn't been an issue for me, although I don't know if my parents (in another country) are actually using the account. The catalog will be different in each country, but that's expected. It's also quite annoying when you get addicted to a show and fly to the other country where it isn't available...
prmoustache 4y ago
Which is totally stupid because IP geo-location do not exist and everything is based on isp headquarter's address. IP addresses do not have physical location and ISP now have global presence. According to many websites I come from another country in eastern europe. Which is not true. If you are maintaining a website and rely on IP geo location, which should really be called "IP crappy geo guess", you are doing it wrong, especially if you set the default language based on this.
- lxgr 4y ago
  > IP geo-location do not exist and everything is based on isp headquarter's address There are definitely edge cases (specifically for mobile data), but on average, IP geolocation is much more accurate than "the ISP‘s headquarters". I live nowhere near my ISPs corporate or even regional office(s), yet my IP location is accurate within a few hundred meters.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - pantulis 4y ago
    Has geolocation gotten a little bit worse in recent years? I understand IP blocks may change phisical location, and don't know if it's IPv4 scarcity or whatever, but apps that use IP location services seem to be mislocating me (like in cities 300km away)
    - fwsgonzo 4y ago
      I haven't seen it gotten any better (or worse). It still puts me regularly in other far away cities, in the south of the country, or just in the country. Never in my town. I will never trust GeoIP to figure out anything other than the country.
      - prmoustache 4y ago
        Even for this it isn't reliable. Depending on the service I can be in different countries. Which is a clear no if you are trying to decide which content you can offer to your customer.

alam2000 4y ago

[dead]

debian3 4y ago

They will. That’s basically what their new policy is blocking.

oefnak 4y ago

> money for two houses > no money for separate accounts for family members

gnicholas 4y ago
That's not what GP said. GP complained about having to pay as if there were multiple households benefiting, when it's actually just one household, albeit a wealthy one. If NFLX said "we're going to start charging rich people more, based on zip code," there would be a revolt. I would assume it's not their intention to try to "go after" this segment and make them pay more (since it's a small portion of their users, and the revenue opportunity is small), but they've undoubtedly thought about this possibility and the unfairness it creates.
- tobyjsullivan 4y ago
  To be fair, this seems like a very convenient redefining of "household". If a household can, quite literally, span two houses (and states!), then what does household actually mean? Edit: double checked and Netflix today is clear that plans are for a single "household". No idea if that language has changed over time but I vaguely recall them always referring to multiple "devices", not people.
  - gnicholas 4y ago
    According to a dictionary, "household" means: > those who dwell under the same roof and compose a family; also: a social unit composed of those living together in the same dwelling [1] It seems more focused on the family unit rather than where they're located. If a household goes on vacation, are they not still a household when they are at their hotel? Why is it different if they're at a condo, which they own? Disclosure: not that it matters, but I do not have a second home. 1: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/household https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/household
    - taeric 4y ago
      I'm curious how you read that and don't see the words "roof" and "same dwelling"? Because... that seems far more focused on where they are located than not? Only thing it is excluding is multiple family units all living in a shared building are not one household.
      - ChoGGi 4y ago
        I will be curious to see what happens to families living in RVs.
        taeric 4y ago
        Apologies for missing this. I'm not clear what you mean. They already have the worst services of any "household" you can imagine. Such that I don't see it changing much?
      - gnicholas 4y ago
        Oh, I absolutely see that limitation. But as I mentioned in my example, a "household" does not cease to exist when it leaves that shared roof. The group is defined based on where they live, regardless of whether they are together at any given moment, or if they are under a different roof together (and whether that different roof is part of a hotel, condo, or vacation home).
- brokenmachine 4y ago
  >If NFLX said "we're going to start charging rich people more, based on zip code," there would be a revolt. Not in the poor houses, and the rich ones would pay anyway because they're rich and price inelastic. So I doubt there'd be a revolt.
  - gnicholas 4y ago
    I would hypothesize a revolt for two reasons. First, it would violate people's general sense of fairness that a product is being sold at different prices to different customers. Wealthy people (who are perhaps above-average in terms of retention) would leave to go to other services that they perceive to be fairer. Second, it would be difficult to avoid overinclusive/underinclusive issues. For example, someone who lives in a studio apartment in a zip code with many large expensive homes would feel they are being clumped with people who are not like them. Is it hypothetically possible to avoid these outcomes? Sure, but it would take a ton of work, and would likely outweigh the benefit of differential pricing.
- zaphirplane 4y ago
  You think The people will demand to pay more to subsidize the rich. I love your optimism and altruism
- copperx 4y ago
  > If NFLX said "we're going to start charging rich people more, based on zip code," there would be a revolt. Revolt? Price discrimination is illegal.
  - anonymousiam 4y ago
    Tell that to the California power companies: https://californiaglobe.com/articles/income-based-electric-rate-system-proposed-by-california-energy-companies/ https://californiaglobe.com/articles/income-based-electric-r...
mathgeek 4y ago
Your comment adds nothing useful to the discussion, as GP never said it was a matter of cost. I am in the same boat and it’s about convenience and/or the loss of what we currently have. Netflix both raised prices and reduced what you get.
- Firmwarrior 4y ago
  Yeah, it's not a matter of angry feelings, it's just a cost-benefit analysis I'm guessing they aren't actually going to put this into action in the USA, but we'll see how it goes I'd personally be fine with paying for 5 different streaming video services, but my wife is too frugal and makes me cancel one when I start another.. presumably a lot of people are in the same boat, and would look at this as a good opportunity to try out Disney+, HBO Max, etc
  - _zzaw 4y ago
    Just curious, what makes you think they won't do it here? I think they're 100% greedy enough to do it here. And at that point, I'll cancel. I've already kind of accustomed my parents to it by reminding them that it takes them half an hour to find anything that they even want to watch on Netflix.
    - Firmwarrior 4y ago
      I just think they'll play around with it in smaller regions to see the effect and run a cost-benefit analysis before they risk angering their primary money maker
- zaphirplane 4y ago
  I disagree, if cracking down on friends and different households sharing passwords means I get it cheaper than I’m ok with that. Their implementation allows people to use their tablet / phone / setup box/ streaming device in multiple locations. Since the technology isn’t available to cater for people living and paying for multiple house holds the options are everyone pays extra or the very very few people that can afford it or an anomaly pay extra To be frank for the case of someone living 6 months here 6 months there They can sign-up and cancel cause it’s a month by month subscription
parsimo2010 4y ago
A Netflix account is supposed to be one per family, it was never supposed to be tied to an individual person. Who in their right mind would assume that a package that allowed four simultaneous streams would be for a single person watching four shows at once? No, it’s clearly supposed to be that one account covers multiple people. GP is fine to complain whether they have enough money for two houses at once. What about kids who have divorced parents and stay at a different house on the weekend? Do they need to get two separate accounts because “their parents can afford two houses?”
- astura 4y ago
  >A Netflix account is supposed to be one per family, it was never supposed to be tied to an individual person. Who in their right mind would assume that a package that allowed four simultaneous streams would be for a single person watching four shows at once? Like cable, internet connection, or Costco membership - it's per household not per family.
  - parsimo2010 4y ago
    The addition of "household" is a new addition they made, likely coupled with this change in direction about password sharing. The word household does not appear in archived versions of their page discussing streaming plans. 2017 (https://archive.is/KFZtP https://archive.is/KFZtP) "No matter which plan you choose, you can install the Netflix app on as many devices as you want, and enjoy as many TV shows and movies as you want, anytime, anywhere." In 2017, not only were they not talking about households, they were explicitly bragging about how you can watch on any device in multiple locations, which conflicts with the concept of a household they are pushing now. 2021 (https://archive.is/OzbRU https://archive.is/OzbRU) "The plan you choose will determine the number of devices that you can watch Netflix on at the same time. With all of our plans, you can download the Netflix app on all your favorite devices and watch unlimited movies and TV shows." But now in 2023 (https://help.netflix.com/en/node/24926 https://help.netflix.com/en/node/24926) "As a Netflix member, you are charged monthly on the date you signed up. A Netflix account is for people who live together in a single household. Learn more about sharing Netflix."
  - 4y ago

macjohnmcc 4y ago

Hulu Live TV is even better regarding location. I have it and had Google Fiber and AT&T fiber at the same address. If I watched live on one it would report on the other than the home location changed and it only gives you so many of those for free before they prevent you from viewing the content (Live TV) you pay them for. So it's only IP and no taking into consideration geo-location at all.

jeroen 4y ago

I don’t have a static ip-address. I am curious to see how they will deal with that.

ilyt 4y ago
I'd imagine they stick some kind of device fingerprint and only start bothering user if there is too many of new devices that never share same network. Or maybe ping lan for other netflix app. Or remember the MAC address of router or something.
- SpaghettiCthulu 4y ago
  > Or maybe ping lan for other netflix app. Or remember the MAC address of router or something. Things that an app or website shouldn't even be able to do without clear permissions.
  - ilyt 4y ago
    https://amiunique.org/ https://amiunique.org/ is fun thing to look at. Thankfully getting MAC of router or other similar network stuff would be hard from browser.
gnicholas 4y ago
Perhaps you have to designate a primary device, and then any of the secondary devices that access from the same IP can migrate for X weeks/months before having to be on the same IP as the primary?
- nasmorn 4y ago
  That is going to be quite the schlep with his second houses tv every couple of weeks. I would cancel too
  - gnicholas 4y ago
    I assume he wouldn't care if TVs in other homes stay logged in when he's not there. As long as they work when he visits, wouldn't that be enough? It could be annoying if another family member goes there for a week and it won't log in because the primary device isn't present.

chatmasta 4y ago

You sure? That hasn't been an issue for me, although I don't know if my parents (in another country) are actually using the account. The catalog will be different in each country, but that's expected. It's also quite annoying when you get addicted to a show and fly to the other country where it isn't available...

prmoustache 4y ago

Which is totally stupid because IP geo-location do not exist and everything is based on isp headquarter's address. IP addresses do not have physical location and ISP now have global presence. According to many websites I come from another country in eastern europe. Which is not true. If you are maintaining a website and rely on IP geo location, which should really be called "IP crappy geo guess", you are doing it wrong, especially if you set the default language based on this.

lxgr 4y ago
> IP geo-location do not exist and everything is based on isp headquarter's address There are definitely edge cases (specifically for mobile data), but on average, IP geolocation is much more accurate than "the ISP‘s headquarters". I live nowhere near my ISPs corporate or even regional office(s), yet my IP location is accurate within a few hundred meters.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- pantulis 4y ago
  Has geolocation gotten a little bit worse in recent years? I understand IP blocks may change phisical location, and don't know if it's IPv4 scarcity or whatever, but apps that use IP location services seem to be mislocating me (like in cities 300km away)
  - fwsgonzo 4y ago
    I haven't seen it gotten any better (or worse). It still puts me regularly in other far away cities, in the south of the country, or just in the country. Never in my town. I will never trust GeoIP to figure out anything other than the country.
    - prmoustache 4y ago
      Even for this it isn't reliable. Depending on the service I can be in different countries. Which is a clear no if you are trying to decide which content you can offer to your customer.