13 ms·

Looks like impossibly excellent qualifications, except maybe one of them if you are "anti-woke". CUNY is a haven for low-wealth non-white people who appreciate

by hgsgm 4y ago

Looks like impossibly excellent qualifications, except maybe one of them if you are "anti-woke". CUNY is a haven for low-wealth non-white people who appreciate being included in opportunities for advancement.

ethbr0 4y ago
Agreed. It's a bit ridiculous to pull a qualifications list from a college that's declared purpose since before 1900 has been mass education, irrespective of sex, race, religion, or ethnic background. If parent wants to make the point I think they're trying to make: pull a collection of * Institutes of Technology's hiring policies. Using Hunter College/CUNY is like pointing to Kentucky Fried Chicken as an example of how restaurants are serving too much fried food. Maybe. But the mission is advertised -- if you choose to walk through that particular door, what you get shouldn't be a surprise. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunter_College https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunter_College
- anotherhue 4y ago
  I didn't actually know that, thank you for highlighting it.
  - ethbr0 4y ago
    Neither did I! Not my part of the country. And I am sympathetic to your point -- there's a lot of excesses and not-functionally-relevant requirements in academia these days. But NYC has a lengthy and altruistic history of charity/nonprofit educational institutions for those who have been denied access at one time or another, and this just happened to be an example of that. I would be fascinated to get a meta analysis of tech school faculty requirements, 1940 - 2023, though. Honestly can't guess if they've drifted or not.
- zmgsabst 4y ago
  Sounds tragic. They went from promoting equality for a hundred years to promoting fashionable anti-Asian racism and misandry. I hope they find their way again.
Dig1t 4y ago
“Anti-racism” specifically is the most racist idea ever. The guy who coined it (Kendi) regularly says that current racism is the only way to make up for past racism. “The only remedy to racist discrimination is antiracist discrimination. The only remedy to past discrimination is present discrimination. The only remedy to present discrimination is future discrimination.” -Kendi So yeah if being anti-woke means you don’t want to participate in a culture of hateful discrimination, then yeah anti-woke sounds normal here.
- ethbr0 4y ago
  As an engineer who generally supports anti-racism (and -sexism) ideas, I figured it was broadly understood that anti-racism (as a goal) was racist (as a definition). You can't add 0 to -5 enough times and get back to 0.
  - Dig1t 4y ago
    Honestly that's fine, but let's be clear that you are saying that you support racism. To get this professor job you are saying you are okay with being openly racist. Until pretty recently this was considered a bad thing by most people, and many kind, sane, people are not going to be okay with that as a prerequisite for getting a job.
    - ethbr0 4y ago
      Yes, I support tactical racism to decrease the amount of systemic racism. Not sure why, assuming you're also an engineering type, this would be a surprising statement. That's how change works. Anything shy of that (e.g. egalitarianism) is simply freezing the status quo after it's already been massively tilted.
    - dahart 4y ago
      Your language seems hyperbolic and inflammatory to me. You are conflating discrimination with racism, and also conflating positive discrimination with negative discrimination. Affirmative action is not racism, even though yes it is intentionally a type of positive discrimination. It’s also out in the open and temporary and more fair, as opposed to cultural racism that it hidden and systemic and permanent and hurting people unfairly. Getting stuck on the existence of discrimination is a way to lose sight of the goal. The goal is to battle systemic cultural racism & sexism that laws have been unable to fix for more than a hundred years, by trying to adjust outcomes temporarily in favor of the people who’ve been unfairly excluded, only until we have evidence that systemic discrimination is mostly gone. In the mean time, there is still a ton of evidence that the bad kind of discrimination is still pervasive and durable. If you don’t want affirmative actions of any kind because you can’t get past the discrimination, then how do you propose to fix racism? Note people have been trying for centuries and unable to do it without some kind of balancing offsetting positive discrimination to counter the known measurable negative discrimination. Do nothing has already failed. So what’s your solution?
galangalalgol 4y ago
I suspect anti-wokeness is probably part of the complaint, but completely apart from that I find it odd they have teaching staff responsible for some of these tasks. I would want my professors to be a bit more outgoing than the point at the board and tap foot until they get to go back to researching types, but having them go recruit people is a full time job (or should be) and so is making good tests and lessons. Grading tests is also ridiculously time consuming if you use good tests. My reaction to those qualifications is "do you have any other employees or only teachers? How much time do you expect me to spend on all these jobs?". If it is just a weed out for teachers that don't care about their students success or understand the variety of challenges some of them face, I think they could have done that in a better way than suggesting "if you really care you'll do three full time jobs to help these young adults".
- anotherhue 4y ago
  The faculty/administrative numbers are startling to me, but I expect typical in most institutions. Academic staff 19,568 Administrative staff 33,099 Students 275,000 From their wikipedia page

by hgsgm 4y ago

ethbr0 4y ago

Agreed. It's a bit ridiculous to pull a qualifications list from a college that's declared purpose since before 1900 has been mass education, irrespective of sex, race, religion, or ethnic background. If parent wants to make the point I think they're trying to make: pull a collection of * Institutes of Technology's hiring policies. Using Hunter College/CUNY is like pointing to Kentucky Fried Chicken as an example of how restaurants are serving too much fried food. Maybe. But the mission is advertised -- if you choose to walk through that particular door, what you get shouldn't be a surprise. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunter_College https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunter_College

anotherhue 4y ago
I didn't actually know that, thank you for highlighting it.
- ethbr0 4y ago
  Neither did I! Not my part of the country. And I am sympathetic to your point -- there's a lot of excesses and not-functionally-relevant requirements in academia these days. But NYC has a lengthy and altruistic history of charity/nonprofit educational institutions for those who have been denied access at one time or another, and this just happened to be an example of that. I would be fascinated to get a meta analysis of tech school faculty requirements, 1940 - 2023, though. Honestly can't guess if they've drifted or not.
zmgsabst 4y ago
Sounds tragic. They went from promoting equality for a hundred years to promoting fashionable anti-Asian racism and misandry. I hope they find their way again.

Dig1t 4y ago

“Anti-racism” specifically is the most racist idea ever. The guy who coined it (Kendi) regularly says that current racism is the only way to make up for past racism. “The only remedy to racist discrimination is antiracist discrimination. The only remedy to past discrimination is present discrimination. The only remedy to present discrimination is future discrimination.” -Kendi So yeah if being anti-woke means you don’t want to participate in a culture of hateful discrimination, then yeah anti-woke sounds normal here.

ethbr0 4y ago
As an engineer who generally supports anti-racism (and -sexism) ideas, I figured it was broadly understood that anti-racism (as a goal) was racist (as a definition). You can't add 0 to -5 enough times and get back to 0.
- Dig1t 4y ago
  Honestly that's fine, but let's be clear that you are saying that you support racism. To get this professor job you are saying you are okay with being openly racist. Until pretty recently this was considered a bad thing by most people, and many kind, sane, people are not going to be okay with that as a prerequisite for getting a job.
  - ethbr0 4y ago
    Yes, I support tactical racism to decrease the amount of systemic racism. Not sure why, assuming you're also an engineering type, this would be a surprising statement. That's how change works. Anything shy of that (e.g. egalitarianism) is simply freezing the status quo after it's already been massively tilted.
  - dahart 4y ago
    Your language seems hyperbolic and inflammatory to me. You are conflating discrimination with racism, and also conflating positive discrimination with negative discrimination. Affirmative action is not racism, even though yes it is intentionally a type of positive discrimination. It’s also out in the open and temporary and more fair, as opposed to cultural racism that it hidden and systemic and permanent and hurting people unfairly. Getting stuck on the existence of discrimination is a way to lose sight of the goal. The goal is to battle systemic cultural racism & sexism that laws have been unable to fix for more than a hundred years, by trying to adjust outcomes temporarily in favor of the people who’ve been unfairly excluded, only until we have evidence that systemic discrimination is mostly gone. In the mean time, there is still a ton of evidence that the bad kind of discrimination is still pervasive and durable. If you don’t want affirmative actions of any kind because you can’t get past the discrimination, then how do you propose to fix racism? Note people have been trying for centuries and unable to do it without some kind of balancing offsetting positive discrimination to counter the known measurable negative discrimination. Do nothing has already failed. So what’s your solution?

galangalalgol 4y ago

I suspect anti-wokeness is probably part of the complaint, but completely apart from that I find it odd they have teaching staff responsible for some of these tasks. I would want my professors to be a bit more outgoing than the point at the board and tap foot until they get to go back to researching types, but having them go recruit people is a full time job (or should be) and so is making good tests and lessons. Grading tests is also ridiculously time consuming if you use good tests. My reaction to those qualifications is "do you have any other employees or only teachers? How much time do you expect me to spend on all these jobs?". If it is just a weed out for teachers that don't care about their students success or understand the variety of challenges some of them face, I think they could have done that in a better way than suggesting "if you really care you'll do three full time jobs to help these young adults".

anotherhue 4y ago
The faculty/administrative numbers are startling to me, but I expect typical in most institutions. Academic staff 19,568 Administrative staff 33,099 Students 275,000 From their wikipedia page