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| Britain’s antitrust watchdog vetoed the gaming industry’s biggest ever deal saying it would harm competition in cloud gaming Cloud gaming? Really? Seems a bi

| Britain’s antitrust watchdog vetoed the gaming industry’s biggest ever deal saying it would harm competition in cloud gaming Cloud gaming? Really? Seems a bit tone deaf. Is the CMA known for not understanding the markets they regulate?

johneth 4y ago
Cloud gaming is a growing market – they're preventing the deal on the hypothesis that it will give Microsoft a huge advantage in a growing market.
- crims0n 4y ago
  In my opinion, it is only growing because it is bundled with popular subscription services like Game Pass. I don't think the sector has it's own legs to stand on, but time will tell.
  - rwalle 4y ago
    Look up GeForce NOW service. It's going well.
  - sofixa 4y ago
    The biggest cloud gaming services up until ~1-2 years ago were Geforce Now and Google Stadia (RIP). Xcloud gaming or whatever they call it today was extremely poor (latency and UX issues) and in limited beta, with a very limited library. Nowadays Stadia is dead, Xcloud is kind of usable under the condition you use a controller (which makes it a non-started for pretty much any non first-person game) and pay for Game Pass. Geforce Now is still going strong, has much better and stable quality and is the gold standard.
- tsgagnon 4y ago
  Cloud gaming is a growing market – they're preventing the deal on the hypothesis that it will give Microsoft a huge advantage in a growing market. How does any large company build into a new/growing market without having a "huge advantage"? Do they have to wait until the market is matured from smaller companies before they can get into that market?
jarym 4y ago
They are known for it but you've heard the old saying... even a broken clock is right twice a day.
pbalcer 4y ago
By cloud gaming they probably mean things like Playstation Plus and Xbox Game Pass, because, in the higher tiers, they come bundled with streaming access to the games in the service.
jerrygenser 4y ago
Why is this tone deaf? A lot of aaa gaming today could be considered cloud gaming -- although I'm not sure of the exact definition. Consider dota 2 -- it's a service entirely on the cloud continuously updated. The list goes on with in terms of aaa games offered by either company where the main offering is actually multiplayer.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- crims0n 4y ago
  Typically it means gaming workloads rendered in the cloud, which artificially appears popular at the moment because it comes bundled with game subscription services such as Playstation Plus and Xbox Game Pass - but as Stadia's failure would seem to indicate, nobody wants to pay for a dedicated cloud gaming service. Doesn't seem like a profitable sector of the market. Nonetheless, my point was that cloud gaming is probably the least concerning part of the merger.
  - rwalle 4y ago
    I know it's not your main point, but I need to mention that the failure of Stadia does not indicate the failure of cloud gaming in general but the problem of Stadia itself. There are plenty of other cloud gaming options growing every day.
  - 0x457 4y ago
    > Stadia's failure would seem to indicate, nobody wants to pay for a dedicated cloud gaming service. Not so sure about this. Stadia was an odd service - even google's own devices (new google tv for example) didn't support stadia. You had to pay for subscription + a whole game price in most cases. Combine that with the fact that people already made peace with stadia being shutdown before it even launched - who wants to pay money for a game that can disappear any day. I had Stadia and played from time to time. I know people who used Stadia exclusively. I play xCloud all the time on my iPad... Stadia had a market, just it being from Google killed it. Well, publishers also played their role there - they wanted consumers to buy games again instead of just giving them access to steam. Shadow, GeForce Now and Amazon Luna are still alive.
OJFord 4y ago
What's wrong with that?
flohofwoe 4y ago
I guess the Xbox Game Pass subscription service can be considered a 'cloud gaming' service, and IIRC most concerns were about CoD vs Game Pass (e.g. if a new CoD game is available on Game Pass on day one of release that would indeed be an unfair advantage).
- crims0n 4y ago
  Fair assessment, but I still think that is tangentially related at best - and only relevant to the cloud due to a bundled subscription.
- newsclues 4y ago
  "e.g. if a new CoD game is available on Game Pass on day one of release that would indeed be an unfair advantage" Timed exclusives are not an unfair advantage, both Sony and MS have bought or paid for timed (or perpetual) exclusive games for their platforms. Are we going to make a rule that bans all exclusive games, and force developers to create ports for all system that launch on the same day?
  - Adverblessly 4y ago
    > Timed exclusives are not an unfair advantage, both Sony and MS have bought or paid for timed (or perpetual) exclusive games for their platforms. I don't think just because the two biggest actors can afford to pay for exclusivity that means that paying for exclusivity is fair. Would you expect itch.io to pay for exclusivity in order to compete in the games market? > Are we going to make a rule that bans all exclusive games, and force developers to create ports for all system that launch on the same day? If you made a rule about this, it would be about banning paying for exclusivity. If a developer wants to make a game exclusive to the PS5 that's up to them, but Sony can't pay them for the privilege.
    - newsclues 3y ago
      If you ban paying for exclusivity, I think acquisitions of developers will accelerate which will erode the diversity of independents from the market. All the console makers are already massive publishers with many in-house studios, perhaps there should be restrictions on publishers from owning developers. But there would also need to be a restriction on console makers from owning publishers and developers as well, but perhaps some small allowance for first party devs?
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
panick21_ 4y ago
Cloud means internet.
nottorp 4y ago
I would have thought the same, but then i tried GeForce Now. It works Just Fine(tm) (with fiber internet) but guess what's missing: a lot of AAA titles. So yes, there's a problem with cloud gaming. Not sure if it's mine or theirs though. I don't have a gaming PC right now, only a PS5. Since we're speaking of ActiBlizzard, i maybe would try Diablo 4 if it were available on GeForce Now. But it isn't and I won't. Incidentally, I doubt there will be a console Diablo 4 for the PS5 either. They were too far into the acquisition process to not dump non Microsoft platforms.
- PretzelPirate 4y ago
  Didn't Microsoft agree that Nvidia could stream ABK games on GeForce Now if the deal closed? It seems like it could have helped GeForce Now grow.
  - KaoruAoiShiho 4y ago
    Yes but the deal only lasts 10 years, and there's been a hold up, even after a couple of months the games are still not on it. Presumably this is because MS want the games on their windows store instead of being buyable through Steam which is already integrated with GFN. It seems problematic.
    - PretzelPirate 4y ago
      10 years is more than enough to attract a player base and establish themselves as a place where games need to be launched. I'm not sure what you mean by there being a hold up. I assumed the deal was dependent on the ABK deal going through, which the CMA just blocked and they've all but guaranteed that GeForce Now won't get Call of Duty.
      - nottorp 4y ago
        Tbh I'm not interested in multiplayer shooters, so they can keep Call of Duty, but a lot of other titles i'm interested in (and sometimes even own on steam) aren't there either.
justeleblanc 4y ago
You can read their 418 pages report here and see if they understand what they're about: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/644939aa529eda000c3b0525/Microsoft_Activision_Final_Report_.pdf https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/644939aa529ed... Section 8, "Theory of harm 2: Vertical effects in cloud gaming services", starts on page 192 and contains 442 paragraphs. The conclusion is about two pages long, I encourage you to read it.
- nonethewiser 4y ago
  What is your opinion on that text?

johneth 4y ago

Cloud gaming is a growing market – they're preventing the deal on the hypothesis that it will give Microsoft a huge advantage in a growing market.

crims0n 4y ago
In my opinion, it is only growing because it is bundled with popular subscription services like Game Pass. I don't think the sector has it's own legs to stand on, but time will tell.
- rwalle 4y ago
  Look up GeForce NOW service. It's going well.
- sofixa 4y ago
  The biggest cloud gaming services up until ~1-2 years ago were Geforce Now and Google Stadia (RIP). Xcloud gaming or whatever they call it today was extremely poor (latency and UX issues) and in limited beta, with a very limited library. Nowadays Stadia is dead, Xcloud is kind of usable under the condition you use a controller (which makes it a non-started for pretty much any non first-person game) and pay for Game Pass. Geforce Now is still going strong, has much better and stable quality and is the gold standard.
tsgagnon 4y ago
Cloud gaming is a growing market – they're preventing the deal on the hypothesis that it will give Microsoft a huge advantage in a growing market. How does any large company build into a new/growing market without having a "huge advantage"? Do they have to wait until the market is matured from smaller companies before they can get into that market?

jarym 4y ago

They are known for it but you've heard the old saying... even a broken clock is right twice a day.

pbalcer 4y ago

By cloud gaming they probably mean things like Playstation Plus and Xbox Game Pass, because, in the higher tiers, they come bundled with streaming access to the games in the service.

jerrygenser 4y ago

Why is this tone deaf? A lot of aaa gaming today could be considered cloud gaming -- although I'm not sure of the exact definition. Consider dota 2 -- it's a service entirely on the cloud continuously updated. The list goes on with in terms of aaa games offered by either company where the main offering is actually multiplayer.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
crims0n 4y ago
Typically it means gaming workloads rendered in the cloud, which artificially appears popular at the moment because it comes bundled with game subscription services such as Playstation Plus and Xbox Game Pass - but as Stadia's failure would seem to indicate, nobody wants to pay for a dedicated cloud gaming service. Doesn't seem like a profitable sector of the market. Nonetheless, my point was that cloud gaming is probably the least concerning part of the merger.
- rwalle 4y ago
  I know it's not your main point, but I need to mention that the failure of Stadia does not indicate the failure of cloud gaming in general but the problem of Stadia itself. There are plenty of other cloud gaming options growing every day.
- 0x457 4y ago
  > Stadia's failure would seem to indicate, nobody wants to pay for a dedicated cloud gaming service. Not so sure about this. Stadia was an odd service - even google's own devices (new google tv for example) didn't support stadia. You had to pay for subscription + a whole game price in most cases. Combine that with the fact that people already made peace with stadia being shutdown before it even launched - who wants to pay money for a game that can disappear any day. I had Stadia and played from time to time. I know people who used Stadia exclusively. I play xCloud all the time on my iPad... Stadia had a market, just it being from Google killed it. Well, publishers also played their role there - they wanted consumers to buy games again instead of just giving them access to steam. Shadow, GeForce Now and Amazon Luna are still alive.

OJFord 4y ago

What's wrong with that?

flohofwoe 4y ago

I guess the Xbox Game Pass subscription service can be considered a 'cloud gaming' service, and IIRC most concerns were about CoD vs Game Pass (e.g. if a new CoD game is available on Game Pass on day one of release that would indeed be an unfair advantage).

crims0n 4y ago
Fair assessment, but I still think that is tangentially related at best - and only relevant to the cloud due to a bundled subscription.
newsclues 4y ago
"e.g. if a new CoD game is available on Game Pass on day one of release that would indeed be an unfair advantage" Timed exclusives are not an unfair advantage, both Sony and MS have bought or paid for timed (or perpetual) exclusive games for their platforms. Are we going to make a rule that bans all exclusive games, and force developers to create ports for all system that launch on the same day?
- Adverblessly 4y ago
  > Timed exclusives are not an unfair advantage, both Sony and MS have bought or paid for timed (or perpetual) exclusive games for their platforms. I don't think just because the two biggest actors can afford to pay for exclusivity that means that paying for exclusivity is fair. Would you expect itch.io to pay for exclusivity in order to compete in the games market? > Are we going to make a rule that bans all exclusive games, and force developers to create ports for all system that launch on the same day? If you made a rule about this, it would be about banning paying for exclusivity. If a developer wants to make a game exclusive to the PS5 that's up to them, but Sony can't pay them for the privilege.
  - newsclues 3y ago
    If you ban paying for exclusivity, I think acquisitions of developers will accelerate which will erode the diversity of independents from the market. All the console makers are already massive publishers with many in-house studios, perhaps there should be restrictions on publishers from owning developers. But there would also need to be a restriction on console makers from owning publishers and developers as well, but perhaps some small allowance for first party devs?

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

panick21_ 4y ago

Cloud means internet.

nottorp 4y ago

I would have thought the same, but then i tried GeForce Now. It works Just Fine(tm) (with fiber internet) but guess what's missing: a lot of AAA titles. So yes, there's a problem with cloud gaming. Not sure if it's mine or theirs though. I don't have a gaming PC right now, only a PS5. Since we're speaking of ActiBlizzard, i maybe would try Diablo 4 if it were available on GeForce Now. But it isn't and I won't. Incidentally, I doubt there will be a console Diablo 4 for the PS5 either. They were too far into the acquisition process to not dump non Microsoft platforms.

PretzelPirate 4y ago
Didn't Microsoft agree that Nvidia could stream ABK games on GeForce Now if the deal closed? It seems like it could have helped GeForce Now grow.
- KaoruAoiShiho 4y ago
  Yes but the deal only lasts 10 years, and there's been a hold up, even after a couple of months the games are still not on it. Presumably this is because MS want the games on their windows store instead of being buyable through Steam which is already integrated with GFN. It seems problematic.
  - PretzelPirate 4y ago
    10 years is more than enough to attract a player base and establish themselves as a place where games need to be launched. I'm not sure what you mean by there being a hold up. I assumed the deal was dependent on the ABK deal going through, which the CMA just blocked and they've all but guaranteed that GeForce Now won't get Call of Duty.
    - nottorp 4y ago
      Tbh I'm not interested in multiplayer shooters, so they can keep Call of Duty, but a lot of other titles i'm interested in (and sometimes even own on steam) aren't there either.

justeleblanc 4y ago

You can read their 418 pages report here and see if they understand what they're about: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/644939aa529eda000c3b0525/Microsoft_Activision_Final_Report_.pdf https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/644939aa529ed... Section 8, "Theory of harm 2: Vertical effects in cloud gaming services", starts on page 192 and contains 442 paragraphs. The conclusion is about two pages long, I encourage you to read it.

nonethewiser 4y ago
What is your opinion on that text?