12 ms·
The FBI's files on Steve Jobs
- shimon_e 15y agoOf interest, the FBI could not find his birth records.
- chubot 15y agoWow, interesting. A background check was initiated by the White House in 1991, since Jobs was being considered for presidential appointment?? By the elder Bush? or Clinton? The check brought up a 1984 shareholders lawsuit against Apple.
- cafard 15y agoWould have had to be GHWB--Clinton wasn't inaugurated until 1993.
- oilytheotter 15y agoIsaacson's book mentions that Jobs and Clinton were friends. Most likely it was Clinton who was considering the appointment.
- deleted 15y ago[deleted]
- masklinn 15y agoClinton wouldn't be in the White House for two years tough, would he have asked the FBI to start a background check almost 2 years before the election?
- oilytheotter 15y agoYeah, I was wrong. Just saw on MacRumors that it was Bush considering him for the President's Export Council. http://www.macrumors.com/2012/02/09/steve-jobs-1991-fbi-file-released-reveals-consideration-for-presidential-appointment/ http://www.macrumors.com/2012/02/09/steve-jobs-1991-fbi-file...
- scott_s 15y agoWow, back in 1991, he was being considered for a Presidential Appointment: http://www.muckrock.com/static/foia_documents/Jobs.pdf http://www.muckrock.com/static/foia_documents/Jobs.pdf That's what all of the documents seem to be from. To be clear, the FBI wasn't keeping tabs on Jobs because they thought he was up to no good, it was the standard background check they do when someone is being considered for a high level government position. Now the speculation starts as to who the people were that the FBI interviewed.
- Aqua_Geek 15y ago> he was being considered for a Presidential Appointment to the President's Export Council.
- mjwalshe 15y agoAnd why would you ever ever release information on vetting ok Steve is dead but all the people who where interviewed are not and neither are Steves family. Would you like to read a recently deceased loved ones warts and all developed vetting report - what public interest is served by this. It is also open to abuse by muck raking hacks I sure Guido Fawlks would love to see the files on Polly Toynbees (Guardian journalist) dad (who was best mates with Burgess - one of the cambridge spy ring)
- brown9-2 15y agoThe purpose is to enable government transparency, and since the taxpayers paid for that information to be gathered, they deserve to see what their government servants did in their name. The Freedom of Information Act does not release any and all documents, there are plenty of privacy restrictions: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_Information_Act_(United_States)#Background http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_Information_Act_(Uni...
- imjoel 15y agoYou haven't read his biography yet, have you?
- spwmoni 15y ago
- johngalt 15y agoFrom the background check interviews: "<Blank> concluded the interview by stating that even though he does not consider Mr. Jobs to be a friend, he (Mr. Jobs) possesses the qualities to assume a high level political position. It was <blank>'s opinion that honesty and integrity are not required qualities to hold such a position."
- morisy 15y agoThat is my favorite quote so far, along with the section that says Mr. Jobs "couldn't see the SA for one hour" for the next three weeks.
- feralchimp 15y agoI would pay money to have all these quotes attributed. Who went to college with Jobs?
- mrleinad 15y ago"He characterized Mr Jobs as a deceptive individual who is not completely forthright and honest. He stated that Mr. Jobs will twist the truth and distort reality in order to achieve his goals." Yep. Looks like he's the man for the position.
- beatle 15y agoApple would've gone bankrupt if Jobs took the position. Instead this happened. Apple now worth more than Google and Microsoft combined http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3572487 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3572487
- robinduckett 15y agoHmm, 17 pages were deleted.
- GreekOphion 15y agoThose were all duplicates.
- DarenThomas 15y agoright. because, if they were deleted for other reasons like "being kept secret", it would have said so!
- estel 15y agoProbably. Why not?
- Mvandenbergh 15y agoYes, I've seen FOI'd files before with whole sections redacted for various reasons, including national security.
- ben1040 15y agoThey were listed as duplicate because they were duplicates of the "this entire page of the original document has been redacted per FOIA provisions" form letter.
- ullrich 15y agoSuper interesting! Thanks for making the files publicly available.
- julian25 15y agoYeah, There are absolutely fascinating. I wonder what "Level III - Full Field Investigation" means.
- culturestate 15y agoIt refers to the sending of agents to conduct character interviews.
- mvkel 15y ago"Several individuals questioned Mr. Jobs' honesty stating that Mr. Jobs will twist the truth and distort reality in order to achieve his goals" If you've read the book, it's no surprise to see "distort reality" written here. Still, it's eerie (but understandable) that the FBI dives this deep.
- Florin_Andrei 15y agoWell, in his case, it was not deep at all. It was one of the most salient features of his personality.
- culturestate 15y agoThe most interesting thing in these documents is among the last few pages which appear to be fingerprints (presumably SJ's) lifted from a telephone receiver at SFO. I wonder why? Can't just ask the guy for his prints? EDIT: it appears from further reading that they're related to a bomb threat involving him at SFO. They're labeled as "misc notes on extortion at Apple."
- niels_olson 15y agoIt was almost certainly the caller. Unsub would be an unsubstantiated caller. If I had to guess, I'd go with Burrell Smith.
- bbob 15y agoUnknown subject
- samwillis 15y ago"Has any of the following happened to you in the last 15 years? ... 5 - Left a job for other reasons under unfavorable circumstances Answered: Date: 09/85 Code: 5 Employer: Apple Computer"
- shimon_e 15y agoWasn't he fired?
- blario 15y agoit may have technically been a resignation. you know; that old political game... the interviews show that everyone that knew and worked with him thought he resigned. only when they interviewed jobs did HE say he was fired.
- yardie 15y agoAccording to Sculley, he was quite sincere that he wanted Jobs to run the advanced research division. He interpreted it as a demotion, quit, then told the interviewers he was fired.
- shimon_e 15y agoSo, it makes sense that he actually quit and then distorted the story to make himself look more special.
- yardie 15y agoNo he was put in charge of the advanced research division. They basically stripped him of all managerial duties without firing him. When presented with his new position and title he was like, "F it, I'm outta here!" Firing a company founder is probably the last thing any publicly traded would do. It's just not done. You'd have sympathetic stockholders rioting, the neutral ones now pissed at you, and every last member of the board fired as well.
- 15y ago
- blafro 15y agoThe documents toward the end are interesting. At first I thought, "wtf they sent out field agents to dust for his fingerprints?" But a few documents later and apparently he and a couple others at Apple where victims of a bomb threat and the fingerprints where of the suspect. Haven't finished reading Isaacson's book so not sure if this was in there. Otherwise (from my cursory read) nothing else was new or unexpected.
- emilepetrone 15y ago"Based on the background information furnished by Mr. Jobs, he has no close relatives residing in communist-controlled countries."
- deleted 15y ago[deleted]
- mhurron 15y agoYa there are some odd questions when applying for green cards in US as well. You would like to think that the communist questions are artifacts, but I doubt they are. "Are you or have you been a member of the Nazi party/movement" "Are you or have you been a member of a Communist Organization" "Have you been charged with or convicted of genocide" Who would answer yes to those questions?
- sgentle 15y agoIt's not illegal to be a member of a communist organisation, or a Nazi, but it is illegal to lie on those forms. Asking those questions is a way of upping the stakes; you either admit you're a commie and they don't let you in, or you lie and you're up on a felony charge for making false statements.
- GFischer 15y agoWell, the Communist party is part of the governing coalition here in Uruguay (the president is a former guerrilla fighter), which has caused a lot of problems (top government officials are not cleared to visit the U.S. because of their past). And the Communist party has a lot of members here.
- gyardley 15y agoWell, I did. I mean, who wants to get busted for lying to the US government? You don't know how detailed their background check is going to be - or whether they're ever going to do a more detailed one in the future. I'm still down here almost a decade later, so obviously a 'yes' here isn't an automatic deal-breaker.
- sjtgraham 15y agoI don't know how to check this myself, but are the redactions flattened, i.e. so they cannot be removed, or are they just shapes on a another layer drawn over the relevant areas, i.e. is the redacted data still recoverable by editing the pdf? It wouldn't be the first time a "redaction" turned out to be no more than a mere obfuscation in practise.
- morisy 15y agoThey are flattened: The FBI prints out files, redacts them, and then scans them back in. A number of federal agencies do this, really making it a pain to search through documents.
- jrockway 15y agoYou can upload the PDF to Google Docs, which will OCR it and make the document searchable. This particular PDF, however, is rejected because it's more than 2MB :(
- morisy 15y agoWe're looking to build quality OCR into MuckRock so every document gets it, but it's surprisingly either a) technically difficult or b) financially expensive, choose one.
- knewter 15y ago1) http://www.datasciencetoolkit.org/ http://www.datasciencetoolkit.org/ 2) grep
- morisy 15y agoThat's really cool, thanks. But I don't think it includes OCR. The best FOSS OCR out there is Tesseract, which we use through DocumentCloud, but it still leaves a lot to be desired compared to commercial solutions.
- 15y ago
- chrishenn 15y agoGlad to see the FOIA worked in this case. AP did a report last year showing how ineffective FOIA and similar laws are: http://hosted.ap.org/interactives/2011/foia-global/ http://hosted.ap.org/interactives/2011/foia-global/
- deleted 15y ago[deleted]
- deleted 15y ago[deleted]
- deleted 15y ago[deleted]
- corin_ 15y agoSo a little more information from this document about the Presidential Appointment that was being considered: The president was George Bush senior, and the appointment was "President's Export Council" (not Senate-confirmable) - and this was happening while he was President of NeXT. Jobs was aware of the possibility and indeed had filled in his details on the "Questionnaire For Sensitive Positions" for it. He stated that he had not used or dealt illegal drugs in the past five years (of interest due to his speaking in favour of LSD).
- nutjob123 15y agoIn the interview with the FBI Jobs also stated that "during the period of approximately 1970-1974 he experimented with marijuana, hashish and lsd. This was during high school and college and he mostly used the substances by himself." p.48
- artursapek 15y agoI love the page after that where they say he was "not a member of the communist party." Even for the government that seems not even worth writing down.
- kylemaxwell 15y agoIt was a statutory requirement, and probably far more relevant in years before 1991.
- tingletech 15y agoI find it odd that the did not redact his social security number.
- cyrus_ 15y agoSSNs of the deceased are no longer considered private.
- smountcastle 15y agoFrom: http://www.ssa.gov/history/hfaq.html http://www.ssa.gov/history/hfaq.html Q20: Are Social Security numbers reused after a person dies? A: No. We do not reassign a Social Security number (SSN) after the number holder's death. Even though we have issued over 453 million SSNs so far, and we assign about 5 and one-half million new numbers a year, the current numbering system will provide us with enough new numbers for several generations into the future with no changes in the numbering system. -- One would assume that eventually all 999,999,999 numbers would be allocated and they'd have to either add a digit or start reusing them.
- chimeracoder 15y agoHopefully by then people will have realized that a social security number isn't a great way of identifying a person, so it won't be that relevant anyway.
- jfruh 15y agoWell, good luck stealing his identity now.
- ahi 15y agoAll SSNs of deceased people are publicly available. It helps prevent fraud. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Security_Death_Index http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Security_Death_Index
- munin 15y ago"On February 25, 1991, <redacted> Security Clerk, Status and Inquiry Branch, DISCO, Columbus, Ohio, was personally contacted and she advised she located the following security clearance in their files identifiable with the appointee, STEVEN PAUL JOBS, SSAN: 549-94-3295: Top Secret clearance dated November 3, 1988, based on a Background Investigation by the Defense Investigative Service dated August 30, 1988. This clearance terminated July 31, 1990, and the employing agency is: PIXAR San Rafael, California"
- fiatpandas 15y agoThis one's interesting. Why would he need top secret clearance during that period at Pixar?
- quux 15y agoI think at this point they were selling their image processing systems to intelligence agencies like the CIA and NSA. IIRC, the NSA bought a lot of NeXT systems, and he had to get a clearance for that too. Or maybe this was the same clearance.
- meiji 15y agoPeople often assume that clearance is only given out in rare circumstances. It's surprising how easy it is to be told you need it and often when you're dealing with certain agencies it's easier for them to make sure you get it so that if they say the wrong thing then they're covered by your arrangements too.
- mjwalshe 15y agoyep Pixar must have been on the USAs equivalent of List X
- edge17 15y agoPixar was selling hardware to NSA at that time
- samwillis 15y agoInterestingly the last few pages are about a bomb threat against Steve Jobs made in 1985 at the Hilton at sf international!
- nilsbunger 15y agoCool, now I can apply for his social security benefits!
- shimon_e 15y agoWhat is he entitled to?
- smountcastle 15y agoI can't find a number from the SSA regarding how much a billionaire (or millionaire) would receive. But this report states that from 2004-2009 $9B was paid out to millionaires in social security benefits: http://www.coburn.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?a=Files.Serve&File_id=bb1c90bc-660c-477e-91e6-91c970fbee1f http://www.coburn.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?a=Files.Serve&... "In fact, the Internal Revenue Service (“IRS”) found that in 2009, 38,217 individuals with an AGI of $1 million or more received more than $1.142 billion in Social Security benefits." That seems to show that those millionaires received ~$30k each/year from social security. There must be a cap in place if true.
- Mvandenbergh 15y agoThe cap is based on the maximum income that is subject to the payroll tax (up to $106,800). Income over that amount does not incur payroll tax and also doesn't contribute to payable social security benefits.
- bluetidepro 15y agoThis may be a dumb question but can you request this information on anyone? Like can I request my own info? I imagine it's blank but I'm just curious how that works...
- lizzard 15y agoYes, here's the FOIA FAQ for the U.S. government: http://www.foia.gov/faq.html http://www.foia.gov/faq.html . You need a notarized statement of your identity.
- bluetidepro 15y agoAh, interesting! Thanks for the link.
- joshaidan 15y agoMy favourite snippet: "Several individuals questioned Mr. Jobs' honesty stating that Mr. Jobs will twist and distort reality in order to achieve his goals."
- unreal37 15y agoSo far my favorite: "He added that the Appointee lives within his means financially, however, his means are considerable and the Appointee is worth at least 100 million dollars." It's easy to live within your means if you're worth 100 million dollars I guess. Unless you are Elton John or Nicolas Cage.
- neurotech1 15y agoSeveral double-agents & spies were caught by living beyond their means, such as buying yachts etc. It was pretty obvious they had a second source of income, presumably from illicit activity.
- DrJokepu 15y agoCuriously enough it's more difficult than you'd think. According to Sports Illustrated, within five years of retirement 60% of NBA players go bankrupt (although I'm not sure how reliable the source is).
- dredmorbius 15y agoConsidering the brevity of an NBA career (4.7 years or so according to a few Googled sources), and at best the mixed bag of financial qualifications of players, this doesn't surprise me much. Generalizing somewhat: ghetto kid -> scholarship college athlete with a broad academic pass -> pro -> out on the street. Yes, there is a somewhat broader range of experiences than just that. Still: sports stars generally burn bright, but very briefly. It's a rollercoaster.
- philwelch 15y agoWhen you have a hundred extended relatives reaching out for help, combined with scam artists trying to talk you into "investments", it's easy to go broke.
- rsmiller510 15y agoThis is outstanding reporting requesting and staying on the request for information, and it's a fascinating look at Jobs and the government process of vetting White House appointments in 1991. Note that they are still obsessed with the idea of anyone belonging to or contributing to the Communist Party and even checked if had relatives in foreign countries who might have been Communists (they couldn't find any). I also particularly like the comments from people who knew him in the background check documents--not always a flattering picture, that's for sure (but we knew that).
- liber8 15y agoIt seems so strange now, but remember, the Berlin wall only fell in November 1989. Even in 1991, the communist threat was still very much on people's minds.
- afterburner 15y agoAlso, the people in charge of the FBI are old, and likely to have been the kind of people obsessing over this kind of stuff back in the day (during the cold war).
- revscat 15y ago> Note that they are still obsessed with the idea of anyone belonging to or contributing to the Communist Party and even checked if had relatives in foreign countries who might have been Communists (they couldn't find any). Their continued focus upon past drug use is also anachronistic. I have not yet read the the document all the way thought, but so far they have mentioned it no fewer than a dozen times. The FBI's priorities seem to be... dated. I wonder if they are still thus.
- jordan0day 15y agoMaybe, but the whole point of these interviews are to try to determine how susceptible a person is to being "turned", that is, blackmailed/bribed/forced against their will to working against US interests. Maybe the FBI is being stodgy, but if someone has been addicted to certain illegal drugs (I know, I know, use doesn't mean addiction) that's one additional angle an "enemy" could use to exploit this person.
- blario 15y agoAs to character, this is far more revealing than that sanctioned bio. I found the bio to be biased: the author never failed to use "genius" but as far for negative qualities, they were brushed aside. Roughly 40 interviews in this pdf, from close associates, friends, classmates, co-workers, and industry colleagues. Not for profit; only meant to give an accurate depiction. And people seem to have been very honest also; maybe the interviewer being the FBI and probably confidentiality promised as well. I find roughly 60% of the people say he's morally and ethically questionable.
- canes123456 15y agoYou are joking, right? His negative qualities are all over the bio. I also don't think any one would argue with Jobs being called a genius.
- blario 15y agoI'm referring to the wording. The author never hesitates to exclaim genius compliments, but equally opinionated proclamations about the negative aspects of his character not proclaimed. Facts are stated, but there are no proclamations describing what type of person that means SJ to be.
- swiecki 15y agoPg 43- "[REDACTED] commented that, although he does not consider Mr. Jobs to be a friend at this time, he considers Mr. Jobs to be a successful individual because he can delegate tasks to individuals." I wonder who that woz?
- troymc 15y ago"At the time of his dismissal [from Apple Computer] he was the general manager of the Mackintosh Division of Apple..." Did they spell "Macintosh" with a 'k' back then or did the FBI person spell it wrong? The fruit is spelled "McIntosh".
- jshort 15y agoI also noticed that they address him by "Stephen" and "Steven"
- adolph 15y agoA Scottish brand of waterproof coat that became a generic name for raincoat is spelled Mackintosh[1]. It could be that the FBI person was being redundant to cover all the spelling bases. 1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mackintosh http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mackintosh
- troymc 15y ago"He belonged to no organizations other than the New York Athletic Club however he had never been in the New York Athletic Club and knew nothing with regard to their membership policies." Why was he a member of the New York Athletic Club? Did someone give him a membership as a gift? (At the time, he did own an apartment at 146 Central Park West in New York City. [Edit: I didn't know that either. It was stated in the paragraph directly above the one mentioning the NY Athletic Club.])
- Erwin 15y agoThe building he had a flat in is: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_San_Remo http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_San_Remo -- a rather exclusive place even as NYC goes and he eventually sold it to U2's Bono for $15 million. Maybe being allowed to buy a flat in there and membership of the club are somehow connected (the club seems to be an exclusive, expensive invite-only gentlemens' club)
- deleted 15y ago[deleted]
- annon 15y agoIn question 17, he lists two code 9 relatives, which means sister. I thought his only sister was Mona Simpson?
- draggnar 15y agoat one point owned a mine with friedland? <BLANK> Described as a "former hippie" had at one time run an apple orchard in Portland, Oregon, in partnership with Steve Jobs.... Jobs was at one time part owner <redacted> of Timerland in Oregon, which included a mine.
- andrewpi 15y agoI can't tell, but did he leave the foreign travel section blank, or was it redacted? We know Steve definitely had spent time in India at the point.
- jrockway 15y agoI enjoyed reading this. Sometimes I watch too many cop shows and think that I want to become a detective. Then I read reports like this, and realize that 99% of police work is producing reports like this one. You may get to interview the occasional reference, but you're probably not going to be getting into many gunfights. I feel mislead by fictional television programs :)
- quux 15y agoWatch The Wire. Most realistic portrayal of police work I've ever seen. Lots of watching suspects and gathering string, putting the pieces of the puzzle together slowly over a season of television, dealing with disfunctional organizations and a realistically low number of gunfights. One of the best TV shows ever made IMO.
- smackfu 15y agoIs it really realistic though? The Wire seems to portray only cases that are relevant to the big picture plot, and they always seem to solve them in the end.
- JonnieCache 15y agoThe guy was embedded with the real baltimore homicide squad for two years or something in the 80s. Read his book, Homicide, for a more realistic depiction of the monotonous life of a police department. The wire is still realistic, because it specifically follows a team doing a large drug investigation, rather than the general work of the dept. In the book, there are a lot more misc. trails that go cold, like you describe.
- jrockway 15y agoI love The Wire. I like how it shows the boring parts in addition to the exciting parts, but let's be honest, there is a lot more field work than desk work. The Wire does not convince me that being a detective would be mostly boring.
- adestefan 15y ago
- caublestone 15y ago"2.65 GPA on a 4.0 scale" at Homestead High School . What a boss.
- FrojoS 15y agoHow did he get into Reed? SAT?
- caublestone 15y agoI think the world was so different then. One of my mentors barely graduated and went straight to Stanford MBA back in the 60's. Sure he had lots of campus leadership. But it seems like ambition got you a lot farther back in the day.
- nivertech 15y ago"... and has a tendency to distort reality in order to achieve his goals" ;)
- rockLAWbster 15y agoI just called his most recent phone number on the paperwork. He didn't pick up.
- deleted 15y ago[deleted]
- nl 15y agoHe had extensive foreign travel and had been to Japan and the Soviet Union Highlighting travel to Japan shows how different things were in 1991.
- wbhart 15y agoThe confusing thing about this lot is the redundancy. They got at least 15 people to make statements, but it looks like multiple SA's interviewed the same people and they all said pretty much the same thing (with the exception of the one dude who thought integrity and honesty weren't prerequisites for a job in the government). Does this mean all of these people had multiple visits from different field agents? That must have been incredibly tiresome. And is there some kind of special cut'n'paste they do to end up with practically the same language in every report? Or are they just recycling the same information over and over.
- philwelch 15y agoWell if someone changes their story, that's suspicious. Some people feel intimidated or trusting or shy or outspoken on different days, when approached by different agents.
- nachteilig 15y agoThis has a surprisingly (?) large number of errors for an FBI background check. They mistake his position at apple, and even how his name is spelled at several points.
- philwelch 15y agoI suspect the "business official" in Dallas, Texas (page 127) was actually none other than NeXT investor Ross Perot.