10 ms·

Call on the IRS to provide libre tax-filing software

270 points by CoBE10 3y ago

Laaas 3y ago
If it's a website what point is there in making it "FOSS"? Even if it weren't, what would happen if you forked their code somehow? Would they sue you?
- mattl 3y ago
  the GNU AGPL is a license that works with websites and web applications that's also open source.
- davidw 3y ago
  So you can learn how it works and verify it and maybe even make some improvements or find bugs?
  - blooalien 3y ago
    > "So you can learn how it works and verify it and maybe even make some improvements or find bugs?" That there, yes! Since it benefits all citizens there is no reason why it should not be able to continually improve and become better so that said benefit grows over time for all concerned. If closed source and / or proprietary, those things will almost certainly only happen in ways that benefit a small select group (the owners of the "IP" / source). If open source / FOSS, then anyone who understands code, or who can hire someone who understands code can contribute improvements and bugfixes that benefit the "greater good". This is one of the "superpowers" of FOSS that few seem willing or able to grasp.
dmckeon 3y ago
What would it cost the US government to buy out the major tax prep providers? The IRS could then provide free tax estimates to a large percentage of filers, and hire many former tax prep workers as IRS agents.
- bombcar 3y ago
  Intuit is like $125 billion and has many other divisions besides TurboTax. People just don’t care enough (a state like California could make it illegal to charge for e-filing, for example, but they don’t).
  - jkaplowitz 3y ago
    The government wouldn't have to buy the rest of Intuit. They could just buy the parts necessary for filing US federal income tax returns. Intuit can't actually say no if the government is willing to use the eminent domain power. Yes, just compensation would constitutionally have to be paid, but it would be just compensation for what the government purchased, not for all of Intuit. If somehow this isn't upheld in court (though I think it would be), they could pre-arrange one or more buyers for the rest of Intuit and use the money to be paid by the other buyers for those divisions to fund what would initially be a purchase of all of Intuit. To save even more money, I wonder if they could even take a page from real estate law where easements for public benefit are sometimes purchased either through the free market or via eminent domain. Under this theory, they wouldn't even have to purchase full ownership of whatever's necessary for US filing purposes, they'd just need to purchase an easement transferring to the federal government Intuit's right to charge US citizens and resident noncitizens for US federal income tax filings via TurboTax, as well as the right to deny these groups TurboTax's US federal income tax filing services. And then the federal government would decline to exercise these two transferred rights. But yeah, I have no idea if the easement idea would hold up in court, and in any case I doubt the government would be politically willing to use eminent domain against Intuit despite indisputably having the right to do it.
- nonethewiser 3y ago
  The only thing that would make Intuit worse is if they were a division of the IRS.
- kelnos 3y ago
  I think a broader issue is that, after the purchase, those decently-well-paid Intuit employees would now be paid according to federal government salary bands, and many of them -- likely many who are critical to the operation of the company -- would quit and find a better-paying job.
logicalmonster 3y ago
I think the FSF's heart is in the right place here, but the real travesty is that the tax code and forms are so complicated for average people to navigate, and the consequences for a mistake can be so great, that even poor people with standard income sources feel they absolutely need professional help filing taxes. This is absurd. Particularly with W2s and 1099s and the like, the government knows what your tax bill should be anyway and is just sitting there waiting for you to mess up complicated forms and penalize you.
- jonathankoren 3y ago
  Poor people don't need professional help. There's certainly any industry telling people that they need professional help, but honestly, poor people just take the standard deduction, and if they have kids the Earned Income Tax Credit. If you can read a W2, and can do basic arithmetic, you're done. As my parents said years ago, "You think it's really that hard when they just grab a bunch of people off the street, stick them behind a folding a table call them H & R Block?" It's only when you start having to deal with itemized deductions, self-employment, multiple investments, and all the stuff that quite frankly poor people can't afford, do you start to need help, and even then, the filing isn't that big of a deal. It's the structuring to reduce taxes prior to tax day that's complicated as hell.
  - sidewndr46 3y ago
    I don't really know that having multiple investments is outside the reach of "poor people". If you want to put $100 in some stocks, it isn't going to cost anymore than that today.
    - jonathankoren 3y ago
      Poor people don't even have banks. Why do you think all those check cashing places are everywhere? Thinking they have savings is just the chef's kiss of out of touch.
    - kelnos 3y ago
      I think you are a bit out of touch. Many poor people don't even have access to a checking/savings account, let alone a brokerage account or 401k. And for many people, even $50 a month can mean the difference between being hungry or not, or paying rent or not. It's a very bad state of affairs.
jmull 3y ago
I think we just want no-cost tax prep software and filing. Mixing in the FSF desired source code licensing would muddy the waters, and I don't think it would provide anything 99% of tax filers care about.
- polygamous_bat 3y ago
  We should set our aim higher than hundreds of millions of people spending six+ hours doing math that IRS has already done. Why not go for a pre-filled return at that point? 90% of the population won't need to do much of anything beyond that.
  - jmull 3y ago
    Well, sure, but these are two different things. I agree we should do both.
zdw 3y ago
I feel like the IRS should just make the rules of the tax code in a spec that can be implemented by many. The french already do this as of the 90's, and there was a modernization effort detailed here: https://dl.acm.org/doi/10.1145/3446804.3446850 https://dl.acm.org/doi/10.1145/3446804.3446850
- yieldcrv 3y ago
  That is comprehensive, but I believe I benefit from the current system in the US. There is no one single professional, bureaucrat, or representative that understands the simultaneous and interrelated parts of the tax code. And from I can tell, telling people what compliant thing you found almost guarantees that it changes. There is an incentive to let the rest of people operate in ignorance and disbelief, while they squabble over “fair share” without defining what that is.
- elteto 3y ago
  Actually, I saw a comment on HN a while back where someone posted a link to a github repo maintained by some government agency (maybe the CBO? but I think it was more obscure). It was a complete and up to date implementation of the US tax code! They used it to run simulations and estimate tax impact on proposals. Edit: I think it's this one: https://policyengine.github.io/policyengine-us//index.html https://policyengine.github.io/policyengine-us//index.html Edit 2: _This one_ is the actual one, policyengine just wraps this: https://taxsim.nber.org/taxsim35/ https://taxsim.nber.org/taxsim35/
ortusdux 3y ago
We just need to go to pre-filled tax forms.
jedberg 3y ago
It's a good thought, but the wrong solution. The US should do what other civilized countries do and send you a tax bill. They can give you a simple form to tell them a few things that a lot of people have (donations, change in marital status, new dependent, other income like rent, etc) and then you can either pay the bill or file the regular return because your situation is complicated. 90% of taxpayers only have income the government already knows about, and with some simple data about donations and dependents, most people's tax bills can be calculated and billed. The only people who would need to prep forms would have such complicated situations that they need a professional.
- duped 3y ago
  Absolutely, this misses the forest for the trees and mistakes a political problem as an economic or technical one. The problem isn't a lack of FOSS tax prep software. The issue is the need for it, and the cause is Intuit bribing politicians to keep it that way.
  - nonethewiser 3y ago
    Taxes were complicated before Intuit existed. What was the cause of that? Blaming Intuit really seems to oversimplify the situation. In reality there are many smaller variables but I think the single biggest factor is how regulation works. You hardly ever see all the rules thrown out in favor of a new system. It takes more buy in than you will ever get. Instead you can just add or remove a few things at a time. Over time cruft accumulates.
    - Kye 3y ago
      They lobby to keep the situation as it is against numerous attempts to improve things. https://www.propublica.org/article/inside-turbotax-20-year-fight-to-stop-americans-from-filing-their-taxes-for-free https://www.propublica.org/article/inside-turbotax-20-year-f... https://www.propublica.org/search?qss=intuit https://www.propublica.org/search?qss=intuit
      - 3y ago
munk-a 3y ago
This seems like a surprisingly fix easy for politicians to swallow compared to the real issue (Intuit and H&R block constantly lobbying for a complex tax code). If a free alternative is available we can slowly suffocate those two bad actors until they lose the money to lobby with and then implement a real solution.
opan 3y ago
This year I found ustaxes.org (AGPL) which could handle federal taxes. For state I used the same method I've heard Stallman uses. Downloaded the form(s) I needed as PDFs (weirdly hard to find, after getting lost on the official site, I found them on another site that just collects and hosts tax forms) and modified them with xournalpp. The remaining gotcha is that I didn't know how to e-file in a libre way, so I had to print off the documents to mail them. I would very much like to see things improve more in this space. I believe I had very simple taxes, and I didn't much care about how much I got back. I would gladly give up the potential return to not have to do this at all.
- junar 3y ago
  The IRS has to approve any e-file provider or software. So you can generally assume that any unofficial tools will be unable to e-file.
  - kelnos 3y ago
    That's so weird, when e-file could also just be "Go to irs.gov and upload your PDF". (Yes, I know it's not quite that simple, but... c'mon.)
exabrial 3y ago
How about 0%(poverty line or below) - 18%(max for anyone) income tax and we forget all other taxes? Income happens when it is realized or upon transfer. I'm sure there's some other definitions that need to be added to this but this is the fairest way I can think of supporting savers, supporting investing, supporting small businesses, and allowing the wealthy to be taxed at a reasonable rate. This also incentivizes congress to actually grow the GDP and work within a budget.
- yieldcrv 3y ago
  nah, I love my deductions the government can figure out how pay interest on its borrowings any way it wants, its just not desperate enough to figure it out thanks to its rent seeking behavior
- munk-a 3y ago
  That would likely significantly lower federal tax revenue and shift an even bigger burden of taxes onto lower income folks. We could adopt a graduated taxation system with 1000 gradients of slowly increasing brackets - as long as a computer can "if 18 < x AND x < 20" through the whole list having a reasonably progressive tax bracket system isn't a real cost - it's all the exemptions and BS that make things a pain... basically "I'm sure there's some other definitions that need to be added to this" is where the demons live in your idea - and they're big demons. The basic graduated tax brackets are as clear as water and trivial to implement.
  - nonethewiser 3y ago
    You need to know how much to withhold for taxes. 1000 brackets makes things a lot more complicated. Edit: the fact that it requires software proves my point. No one thinks it’s a difficult programming problem.
    - munk-a 3y ago
      I build software for a living - building a program to take a list of 1000 brackets and compute the graduated tax rate would take about fifteen minutes (in a vacuum). This is not a real problem. (In response to your edit) Do you think accountants are currently working by slide rule? The tax code is currently extremely corrupted by loopholes and exceptions. My original hyperbolic statement was to highlight that the graduation of income tax is dirt simple. We've currently got seven tax brackets and it is trivial to calculate what you're going to owe based on them, even if we pushed seven to a thousand it's still a trivial calculation to run.
Twirrim 3y ago
The IRS wants to. They're not allowed to.
joshstrange 3y ago
I started an LLC for my side business and the taxes for that were way more complicated than they should have been even with me paying for software (TaxAct) to help me. In the end I had to go to H&R Block because I was worried I was going to mess something up and over/under pay (more worried about underpaying). I ended up watching someone else enter data into a computer (they messed up my address and my phone number so I had to correct some forms) and while they were able to e-file some of it, other parts I had to send in (paper). It's absurd and my business is tiny and relatively simple. The fact that I couldn't even find the info I needed online for /what/ I needed to file (let alone /how/) makes me furious. Having to pay ~$400 for someone else to enter basic info feels like robbery. I think for next year I can figure it out but I'm still wary (TaxAct kept asking for all these forms I didn't have and couldn't tell if I needed to "generate" them from my LLC to myself or if that was only for partnerships/corps). I have zero issues with paying taxes, in fact I'm somewhat happy to pay them but figuring out what I owe is miserable and fills me with anxiety and dread that I might mess up something and get in trouble.
- bombcar 3y ago
  As long as you do not mess up intentionally the worst case is they hit you with a penalty fee, and often not even that. Or you miss out a deduction. Unless you have an actual tax accountant, you’re just paying some teenager to enter your data into a higher-cost version of TurboTax. https://johntreed.com/products/aggressive-tax-avoidance-for-real-estate-investor https://johntreed.com/products/aggressive-tax-avoidance-for-... This book is aimed at the real estate investor but may still be worth a read.
- bluGill 3y ago
  You should have an accountant for that side business who will do taxes for you as part of services. They already have an unlimited account with someone for tax filing that can read from their computer so it is very quick. Plus there actually is good advice an accountant can give you.
  - joshstrange 3y ago
    Yeah, this is my other plan for next year. I didn't do it this year because I waited too late (I thought I could figure it out) and I didn't look forward to being told I was doing it all wrong (turns out I don't think I was based on what H&R Block said).
AdamJacobMuller 3y ago
Why couldn't the FSF just develop such software on their own? You don't even need to make it complicated and walled-garden with eFile, just have the program end up with a printable PDF that you mail to the IRS. Want to incentivize the IRS to open their eFiling system so someone like the FSF can eFile or make their own ? Just send 10,20,30m paper 1040 forms. That will quickly cause the IRS to want alternatives. This will never work for a simple reason. The problem, as I see it, is that people misunderstand what value online eFilers offer their customers. I could have gone on TurboTax website the day I got my W-2, filled out their forms and "get your money in as little as 1 minute," deposited directly into their bank account where you get a virtual debit card. Regardless of your opinions about that scheme, many people are very attracted to it and in my hypothetical paper filing logjam scenario it might take 6 months and legislation to resolve it, nobody wants to wait for their refund, not even for the week or two it takes the IRSs normal ACH, I want it in 1 minute! This is (part of) the real perceived value from companies like TurboTax. Is the FSF going to fund advances like this? Of course not. The other half of the value proposition from them is protection against mistakes. Again, regardless of the actual utility of these claims, some people are very afraid of making seemingly minor errors on their tax return and being faced with a huge tax bill with huge fees and fines and penalties. Yes, I know that the IRS is actually a semi-reasonable organization and for the average filer the chances of having something like this happen is effectively nil, but, people are attracted to the security of those protection guarantees. Is the FSF going to back their software with a similar liability promise?
- calvinmorrison 3y ago
  Why? because the reality is these are NOT technical issues. It's easy to recruit developers to make the next best editor. It's another to get them to read tax law.
  - bluGill 3y ago
    I can read tax law, but the problem is you get a month between when the IRS release the rules and when you have to be done - and correct. The big companies put in a lot of work to enter all the rules in the month, and then even more work to validate they are correct. That is boring work that needs to be done every year. If you get something wrong it is the users who find out when the IRS rejects their forms. While it isn't a big deal for that to happen to one person, it is still annoying, and if there are lots of users who hit the same typo that is a lot of annoyed users. The FSF just doesn't have the ability to do a good job with tax software.
snthd 3y ago
Can US taxpayers not just do a freedom of information request to to the IRS, and base their tax return on that? https://www.irs.gov/privacy-disclosure/irs-freedom-of-information https://www.irs.gov/privacy-disclosure/irs-freedom-of-inform...
- kelnos 3y ago
  FOIA requests take time, though. Financial institutions usually haven't sent in all their data on everyone until February or March; you wouldn't get your information back in time to file your tax return in April.
dahwolf 3y ago
Taxes in the Netherlands: go to website, log in with digital ID. Next, next, next, next, finish. Done. Less than 5 minutes. Income, savings accounts, mortgage, all prefilled. For businesses, complicated households, people dealing with particular life events (divorce, inheritance, special medical deductions) it's a bit more work but still doable. Our government is strongly incentivized to make taxes easy and even came up with a slogan: "taxes. we can't make them more fun, but we sure can make them easier". It's clear why they want to make it easy: it takes an army of very expensive staff to address endless questions. And then some even more expensive staff to address tax appeals.
dang 3y ago
Related: 60M Americans have taxes so simple the IRS could do them automatically - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35476709 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35476709 - April 2023 (277 comments) Lobbyists begin chipping away at Biden’s $80B IRS overhaul - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35381701 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35381701 - March 2023 (214 comments) Intuit pouring money into lobbying amid push for free government-run tax filing - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34840039 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34840039 - Feb 2023 (178 comments) IRS builds task force to explore running its own free e-file system - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34764952 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34764952 - Feb 2023 (199 comments) IRS Free File: Do Your Taxes for Free - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34462122 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34462122 - Jan 2023 (247 comments) IRS will look into setting up a free e-filing system - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32753099 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32753099 - Sept 2022 (408 comments) The IRS could be on the verge of changing the way Americans file their taxes - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32550841 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32550841 - Aug 2022 (17 comments) IRS will study free tax filing options - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32502321 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32502321 - Aug 2022 (25 comments) TurboTax’s fight against free tax filing - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31072202 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31072202 - April 2022 (394 comments) Filing taxes could be free & simple. H&R Block & Intuit lobby against it (2017) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30856968 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30856968 - March 2022 (114 comments) FTC sues Intuit for its deceptive TurboTax “free” filing campaign - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30846071 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30846071 - March 2022 (587 comments) Ask HN: How does TurboTax get away with dark patterns? - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30409523 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30409523 - Feb 2022 (122 comments) Why do Americans have to pay much to file their tax returns when the IRS knows? - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30267361 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30267361 - Feb 2022 (22 comments) Filing Taxes Could Be Free and Simple. But H&R Block and Intuit Lobby Against It (2017) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30185484 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30185484 - Feb 2022 (18 comments) California tried to save the nation from tax filing, then Intuit stepped in - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28944200 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28944200 - Oct 2021 (283 comments) The IRS has a big opportunity to fix the way Americans file taxes - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28177289 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28177289 - Aug 2021 (12 comments) UsTaxes – open-source tax filing web application - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27998452 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27998452 - July 2021 (53 comments) Good Riddance, TurboTax. Americans Need a Real ‘Free File’ Program - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27902380 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27902380 - July 2021 (248 comments) Intuit will no longer be a part of IRS Free File program - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27865625 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27865625 - July 2021 (140 comments) Killing TurboTax - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26330584 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26330584 - March 2021 (662 comments) Show HN: ustaxes.org – open-source tax filing webapp - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26138446 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26138446 - Feb 2021 (219 comments) TurboTax Tricked You into Paying to File Your Taxes (2019) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26102695 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26102695 - Feb 2021 (306 comments) TurboTax’s 20-Year Fight to Stop Americans from Filing Taxes for Free (2019) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26060414 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26060414 - Feb 2021 (199 comments) FTC Is Investigating Intuit over TurboTax Practices - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24409093 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24409093 - Sept 2020 (194 comments) IRS stops firms like TurboTax from hiding free tax-filing products in searches - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21948935 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21948935 - Jan 2020 (25 comments) IRS Reforms Free File Program, Drops Agreement Not to Compete with TurboTax - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21923220 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21923220 - Dec 2019 (448 comments) IRS Tried to Hide Emails That Show Tax Industry Influence over Free File Program - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21393758 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21393758 - Oct 2019 (188 comments) TurboTax’s 20-Year Fight to Stop Americans from Filing Taxes for Free - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21281411 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21281411 - Oct 2019 (447 comments) TurboTax to charge more lower-income customers - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20461169 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20461169 - July 2019 (81 comments) Congress Scraps Provision to Restrict IRS from Competing with TurboTax - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20119916 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20119916 - June 2019 (18 comments) TurboTax Uses a “Military Discount” to Trick Troops into Paying to File Taxes - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19994118 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19994118 - May 2019 (42 comments) Listen to TurboTax Lie to Get Out of Refunding Overcharged Customers - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19870242 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19870242 - May 2019 (44 comments) TurboTax and H&R Block Saw Free Tax Filing as a Threat - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19810981 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19810981 - May 2019 (143 comments) TurboTax Hides Its Free File Page from Search Engines - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19758126 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19758126 - April 2019 (262 comments) TurboTax Uses Dark Patterns to Trick You into Paying to File Your Taxes - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19718284 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19718284 - April 2019 (274 comments) Congress Is About to Ban the US Government from Offering Free Online Tax Filing - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19613725 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19613725 - April 2019 (696 comments) Filing Your Taxes Is an Expensive Time Sink. That’s Not an Accident - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19572917 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19572917 - April 2019 (155 comments) How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing (2013) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19392673 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19392673 - March 2019 (253 comments) H&R Block and Intuit Lobby Against Free and Simple Tax Filing (2017) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18956883 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18956883 - Jan 2019 (190 comments) Would You Let the I.R.S. Prepare Your Taxes? (2015) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17751383 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17751383 - Aug 2018 (424 comments) IRS electronic filing system breaks down hours before midnight deadline - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16860086 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16860086 - April 2018 (97 comments) Why I'm boycotting TurboTax this year - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16844458 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16844458 - April 2018 (23 comments) H&R Block and Intuit Lobbying Against Simpler Tax Filing (2017) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16841449 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16841449 - April 2018 (232 comments) Stanford Professor Loses Political Battle To Simplify Tax Filing Process - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13990391 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13990391 - March 2017 (386 comments) H&R Block and Intuit Are Lobbying Against Making Tax Filling Free and Easy - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13922482 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13922482 - March 2017 (234 comments) How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing (2013) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13853150 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13853150 - March 2017 (439 comments) US Senator Warren Introduces Bill to Simplify Tax Filing - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11492025 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11492025 - April 2016 (155 comments) TurboTax Takes Aim at Smaller Rival in Fight for Filers - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11150694 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11150694 - Feb 2016 (87 comments) Would You Let the I.R.S. Prepare Your Taxes? - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9381437 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9381437 - April 2015 (150 comments) Would You Let the I.R.S. Prepare Your Taxes? - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9380232 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9380232 - April 2015 (124 comments) TurboTax Maker Intuit Funnels Millions to Lobby Against Easier Tax Returns - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7595440 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7595440 - April 2014 (182 comments) Filing taxes: It shouldn't be so hard - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5488084 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5488084 - April 2013 (56 comments) How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5443203 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5443203 - March 2013 (330 comments) Intuit lobbies against California's free tax filing service - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1569169 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1569169 - Aug 2010 (29 comments)
kriro 3y ago
I applaud this. The old official German tax software (ElsterFormular) for doing my taxes was the only reason I kept Windows around on some machine. There used to be a free equivalent with less functionality (Geierlein) developed by a nice person, however the option to communicate with the government backend was shut down for free software (I'm simplifying a lot here, the whole storry is interesting and there's also the ORacle Java required issue etc. etc.). Germany has since moved to a web based solution (Elster Online) so I can now happily run Linux everywhere. Personally I feel like all government software should be libre because it's paid for by the people so I don't see why it shouldn't be open to the people. At the very least they should provide a clear and freely usable API to communicate with servers for transmitting data. Humerous sidenote I always thought it was kind of funny that the software is called Elster (magpie). At least someone in the government had a sense of humor.
byy 3y ago
A better way to convince the IRS is to give them real money under the table. This method works better than ANY other method. Which is basically what intuit is doing.
thomzane 3y ago
There is an AGPL program to fill the 1040 form. https://github.com/ustaxes/UsTaxes https://github.com/ustaxes/UsTaxes
didgetmaster 3y ago
A simpler tax system will take power away from those currently in charge (whether they are public facing like Senators or Presidents, or they are behind the scenes as in 'deep-state' bureaucrats or donors). This is why attempts to simplify the tax system never go anywhere.

270 points by CoBE10 3y ago

If it's a website what point is there in making it "FOSS"? Even if it weren't, what would happen if you forked their code somehow? Would they sue you?

mattl 3y ago
the GNU AGPL is a license that works with websites and web applications that's also open source.
davidw 3y ago
So you can learn how it works and verify it and maybe even make some improvements or find bugs?
- blooalien 3y ago
  > "So you can learn how it works and verify it and maybe even make some improvements or find bugs?" That there, yes! Since it benefits all citizens there is no reason why it should not be able to continually improve and become better so that said benefit grows over time for all concerned. If closed source and / or proprietary, those things will almost certainly only happen in ways that benefit a small select group (the owners of the "IP" / source). If open source / FOSS, then anyone who understands code, or who can hire someone who understands code can contribute improvements and bugfixes that benefit the "greater good". This is one of the "superpowers" of FOSS that few seem willing or able to grasp.

dmckeon 3y ago

What would it cost the US government to buy out the major tax prep providers? The IRS could then provide free tax estimates to a large percentage of filers, and hire many former tax prep workers as IRS agents.

bombcar 3y ago
Intuit is like $125 billion and has many other divisions besides TurboTax. People just don’t care enough (a state like California could make it illegal to charge for e-filing, for example, but they don’t).
- jkaplowitz 3y ago
  The government wouldn't have to buy the rest of Intuit. They could just buy the parts necessary for filing US federal income tax returns. Intuit can't actually say no if the government is willing to use the eminent domain power. Yes, just compensation would constitutionally have to be paid, but it would be just compensation for what the government purchased, not for all of Intuit. If somehow this isn't upheld in court (though I think it would be), they could pre-arrange one or more buyers for the rest of Intuit and use the money to be paid by the other buyers for those divisions to fund what would initially be a purchase of all of Intuit. To save even more money, I wonder if they could even take a page from real estate law where easements for public benefit are sometimes purchased either through the free market or via eminent domain. Under this theory, they wouldn't even have to purchase full ownership of whatever's necessary for US filing purposes, they'd just need to purchase an easement transferring to the federal government Intuit's right to charge US citizens and resident noncitizens for US federal income tax filings via TurboTax, as well as the right to deny these groups TurboTax's US federal income tax filing services. And then the federal government would decline to exercise these two transferred rights. But yeah, I have no idea if the easement idea would hold up in court, and in any case I doubt the government would be politically willing to use eminent domain against Intuit despite indisputably having the right to do it.
nonethewiser 3y ago
The only thing that would make Intuit worse is if they were a division of the IRS.
kelnos 3y ago
I think a broader issue is that, after the purchase, those decently-well-paid Intuit employees would now be paid according to federal government salary bands, and many of them -- likely many who are critical to the operation of the company -- would quit and find a better-paying job.

logicalmonster 3y ago

I think the FSF's heart is in the right place here, but the real travesty is that the tax code and forms are so complicated for average people to navigate, and the consequences for a mistake can be so great, that even poor people with standard income sources feel they absolutely need professional help filing taxes. This is absurd. Particularly with W2s and 1099s and the like, the government knows what your tax bill should be anyway and is just sitting there waiting for you to mess up complicated forms and penalize you.

jonathankoren 3y ago
Poor people don't need professional help. There's certainly any industry telling people that they need professional help, but honestly, poor people just take the standard deduction, and if they have kids the Earned Income Tax Credit. If you can read a W2, and can do basic arithmetic, you're done. As my parents said years ago, "You think it's really that hard when they just grab a bunch of people off the street, stick them behind a folding a table call them H & R Block?" It's only when you start having to deal with itemized deductions, self-employment, multiple investments, and all the stuff that quite frankly poor people can't afford, do you start to need help, and even then, the filing isn't that big of a deal. It's the structuring to reduce taxes prior to tax day that's complicated as hell.
- sidewndr46 3y ago
  I don't really know that having multiple investments is outside the reach of "poor people". If you want to put $100 in some stocks, it isn't going to cost anymore than that today.
  - jonathankoren 3y ago
    Poor people don't even have banks. Why do you think all those check cashing places are everywhere? Thinking they have savings is just the chef's kiss of out of touch.
  - kelnos 3y ago
    I think you are a bit out of touch. Many poor people don't even have access to a checking/savings account, let alone a brokerage account or 401k. And for many people, even $50 a month can mean the difference between being hungry or not, or paying rent or not. It's a very bad state of affairs.

jmull 3y ago

I think we just want no-cost tax prep software and filing. Mixing in the FSF desired source code licensing would muddy the waters, and I don't think it would provide anything 99% of tax filers care about.

polygamous_bat 3y ago
We should set our aim higher than hundreds of millions of people spending six+ hours doing math that IRS has already done. Why not go for a pre-filled return at that point? 90% of the population won't need to do much of anything beyond that.
- jmull 3y ago
  Well, sure, but these are two different things. I agree we should do both.

zdw 3y ago

I feel like the IRS should just make the rules of the tax code in a spec that can be implemented by many. The french already do this as of the 90's, and there was a modernization effort detailed here: https://dl.acm.org/doi/10.1145/3446804.3446850 https://dl.acm.org/doi/10.1145/3446804.3446850

yieldcrv 3y ago
That is comprehensive, but I believe I benefit from the current system in the US. There is no one single professional, bureaucrat, or representative that understands the simultaneous and interrelated parts of the tax code. And from I can tell, telling people what compliant thing you found almost guarantees that it changes. There is an incentive to let the rest of people operate in ignorance and disbelief, while they squabble over “fair share” without defining what that is.
elteto 3y ago
Actually, I saw a comment on HN a while back where someone posted a link to a github repo maintained by some government agency (maybe the CBO? but I think it was more obscure). It was a complete and up to date implementation of the US tax code! They used it to run simulations and estimate tax impact on proposals. Edit: I think it's this one: https://policyengine.github.io/policyengine-us//index.html https://policyengine.github.io/policyengine-us//index.html Edit 2: _This one_ is the actual one, policyengine just wraps this: https://taxsim.nber.org/taxsim35/ https://taxsim.nber.org/taxsim35/

ortusdux 3y ago

We just need to go to pre-filled tax forms.

jedberg 3y ago

It's a good thought, but the wrong solution. The US should do what other civilized countries do and send you a tax bill. They can give you a simple form to tell them a few things that a lot of people have (donations, change in marital status, new dependent, other income like rent, etc) and then you can either pay the bill or file the regular return because your situation is complicated. 90% of taxpayers only have income the government already knows about, and with some simple data about donations and dependents, most people's tax bills can be calculated and billed. The only people who would need to prep forms would have such complicated situations that they need a professional.

duped 3y ago
Absolutely, this misses the forest for the trees and mistakes a political problem as an economic or technical one. The problem isn't a lack of FOSS tax prep software. The issue is the need for it, and the cause is Intuit bribing politicians to keep it that way.
- nonethewiser 3y ago
  Taxes were complicated before Intuit existed. What was the cause of that? Blaming Intuit really seems to oversimplify the situation. In reality there are many smaller variables but I think the single biggest factor is how regulation works. You hardly ever see all the rules thrown out in favor of a new system. It takes more buy in than you will ever get. Instead you can just add or remove a few things at a time. Over time cruft accumulates.
  - Kye 3y ago
    They lobby to keep the situation as it is against numerous attempts to improve things. https://www.propublica.org/article/inside-turbotax-20-year-fight-to-stop-americans-from-filing-their-taxes-for-free https://www.propublica.org/article/inside-turbotax-20-year-f... https://www.propublica.org/search?qss=intuit https://www.propublica.org/search?qss=intuit
    - 3y ago

munk-a 3y ago

This seems like a surprisingly fix easy for politicians to swallow compared to the real issue (Intuit and H&R block constantly lobbying for a complex tax code). If a free alternative is available we can slowly suffocate those two bad actors until they lose the money to lobby with and then implement a real solution.

opan 3y ago

This year I found ustaxes.org (AGPL) which could handle federal taxes. For state I used the same method I've heard Stallman uses. Downloaded the form(s) I needed as PDFs (weirdly hard to find, after getting lost on the official site, I found them on another site that just collects and hosts tax forms) and modified them with xournalpp. The remaining gotcha is that I didn't know how to e-file in a libre way, so I had to print off the documents to mail them. I would very much like to see things improve more in this space. I believe I had very simple taxes, and I didn't much care about how much I got back. I would gladly give up the potential return to not have to do this at all.

junar 3y ago
The IRS has to approve any e-file provider or software. So you can generally assume that any unofficial tools will be unable to e-file.
- kelnos 3y ago
  That's so weird, when e-file could also just be "Go to irs.gov and upload your PDF". (Yes, I know it's not quite that simple, but... c'mon.)

exabrial 3y ago

How about 0%(poverty line or below) - 18%(max for anyone) income tax and we forget all other taxes? Income happens when it is realized or upon transfer. I'm sure there's some other definitions that need to be added to this but this is the fairest way I can think of supporting savers, supporting investing, supporting small businesses, and allowing the wealthy to be taxed at a reasonable rate. This also incentivizes congress to actually grow the GDP and work within a budget.

yieldcrv 3y ago
nah, I love my deductions the government can figure out how pay interest on its borrowings any way it wants, its just not desperate enough to figure it out thanks to its rent seeking behavior
munk-a 3y ago
That would likely significantly lower federal tax revenue and shift an even bigger burden of taxes onto lower income folks. We could adopt a graduated taxation system with 1000 gradients of slowly increasing brackets - as long as a computer can "if 18 < x AND x < 20" through the whole list having a reasonably progressive tax bracket system isn't a real cost - it's all the exemptions and BS that make things a pain... basically "I'm sure there's some other definitions that need to be added to this" is where the demons live in your idea - and they're big demons. The basic graduated tax brackets are as clear as water and trivial to implement.
- nonethewiser 3y ago
  You need to know how much to withhold for taxes. 1000 brackets makes things a lot more complicated. Edit: the fact that it requires software proves my point. No one thinks it’s a difficult programming problem.
  - munk-a 3y ago
    I build software for a living - building a program to take a list of 1000 brackets and compute the graduated tax rate would take about fifteen minutes (in a vacuum). This is not a real problem. (In response to your edit) Do you think accountants are currently working by slide rule? The tax code is currently extremely corrupted by loopholes and exceptions. My original hyperbolic statement was to highlight that the graduation of income tax is dirt simple. We've currently got seven tax brackets and it is trivial to calculate what you're going to owe based on them, even if we pushed seven to a thousand it's still a trivial calculation to run.

Twirrim 3y ago

The IRS wants to. They're not allowed to.

joshstrange 3y ago

I started an LLC for my side business and the taxes for that were way more complicated than they should have been even with me paying for software (TaxAct) to help me. In the end I had to go to H&R Block because I was worried I was going to mess something up and over/under pay (more worried about underpaying). I ended up watching someone else enter data into a computer (they messed up my address and my phone number so I had to correct some forms) and while they were able to e-file some of it, other parts I had to send in (paper). It's absurd and my business is tiny and relatively simple. The fact that I couldn't even find the info I needed online for /what/ I needed to file (let alone /how/) makes me furious. Having to pay ~$400 for someone else to enter basic info feels like robbery. I think for next year I can figure it out but I'm still wary (TaxAct kept asking for all these forms I didn't have and couldn't tell if I needed to "generate" them from my LLC to myself or if that was only for partnerships/corps). I have zero issues with paying taxes, in fact I'm somewhat happy to pay them but figuring out what I owe is miserable and fills me with anxiety and dread that I might mess up something and get in trouble.

bombcar 3y ago
As long as you do not mess up intentionally the worst case is they hit you with a penalty fee, and often not even that. Or you miss out a deduction. Unless you have an actual tax accountant, you’re just paying some teenager to enter your data into a higher-cost version of TurboTax. https://johntreed.com/products/aggressive-tax-avoidance-for-real-estate-investor https://johntreed.com/products/aggressive-tax-avoidance-for-... This book is aimed at the real estate investor but may still be worth a read.
bluGill 3y ago
You should have an accountant for that side business who will do taxes for you as part of services. They already have an unlimited account with someone for tax filing that can read from their computer so it is very quick. Plus there actually is good advice an accountant can give you.
- joshstrange 3y ago
  Yeah, this is my other plan for next year. I didn't do it this year because I waited too late (I thought I could figure it out) and I didn't look forward to being told I was doing it all wrong (turns out I don't think I was based on what H&R Block said).

AdamJacobMuller 3y ago

Why couldn't the FSF just develop such software on their own? You don't even need to make it complicated and walled-garden with eFile, just have the program end up with a printable PDF that you mail to the IRS. Want to incentivize the IRS to open their eFiling system so someone like the FSF can eFile or make their own ? Just send 10,20,30m paper 1040 forms. That will quickly cause the IRS to want alternatives. This will never work for a simple reason. The problem, as I see it, is that people misunderstand what value online eFilers offer their customers. I could have gone on TurboTax website the day I got my W-2, filled out their forms and "get your money in as little as 1 minute," deposited directly into their bank account where you get a virtual debit card. Regardless of your opinions about that scheme, many people are very attracted to it and in my hypothetical paper filing logjam scenario it might take 6 months and legislation to resolve it, nobody wants to wait for their refund, not even for the week or two it takes the IRSs normal ACH, I want it in 1 minute! This is (part of) the real perceived value from companies like TurboTax. Is the FSF going to fund advances like this? Of course not. The other half of the value proposition from them is protection against mistakes. Again, regardless of the actual utility of these claims, some people are very afraid of making seemingly minor errors on their tax return and being faced with a huge tax bill with huge fees and fines and penalties. Yes, I know that the IRS is actually a semi-reasonable organization and for the average filer the chances of having something like this happen is effectively nil, but, people are attracted to the security of those protection guarantees. Is the FSF going to back their software with a similar liability promise?

calvinmorrison 3y ago
Why? because the reality is these are NOT technical issues. It's easy to recruit developers to make the next best editor. It's another to get them to read tax law.
- bluGill 3y ago
  I can read tax law, but the problem is you get a month between when the IRS release the rules and when you have to be done - and correct. The big companies put in a lot of work to enter all the rules in the month, and then even more work to validate they are correct. That is boring work that needs to be done every year. If you get something wrong it is the users who find out when the IRS rejects their forms. While it isn't a big deal for that to happen to one person, it is still annoying, and if there are lots of users who hit the same typo that is a lot of annoyed users. The FSF just doesn't have the ability to do a good job with tax software.

snthd 3y ago

Can US taxpayers not just do a freedom of information request to to the IRS, and base their tax return on that? https://www.irs.gov/privacy-disclosure/irs-freedom-of-information https://www.irs.gov/privacy-disclosure/irs-freedom-of-inform...

kelnos 3y ago
FOIA requests take time, though. Financial institutions usually haven't sent in all their data on everyone until February or March; you wouldn't get your information back in time to file your tax return in April.

dahwolf 3y ago

Taxes in the Netherlands: go to website, log in with digital ID. Next, next, next, next, finish. Done. Less than 5 minutes. Income, savings accounts, mortgage, all prefilled. For businesses, complicated households, people dealing with particular life events (divorce, inheritance, special medical deductions) it's a bit more work but still doable. Our government is strongly incentivized to make taxes easy and even came up with a slogan: "taxes. we can't make them more fun, but we sure can make them easier". It's clear why they want to make it easy: it takes an army of very expensive staff to address endless questions. And then some even more expensive staff to address tax appeals.

dang 3y ago

Related: 60M Americans have taxes so simple the IRS could do them automatically - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35476709 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35476709 - April 2023 (277 comments) Lobbyists begin chipping away at Biden’s $80B IRS overhaul - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35381701 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35381701 - March 2023 (214 comments) Intuit pouring money into lobbying amid push for free government-run tax filing - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34840039 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34840039 - Feb 2023 (178 comments) IRS builds task force to explore running its own free e-file system - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34764952 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34764952 - Feb 2023 (199 comments) IRS Free File: Do Your Taxes for Free - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34462122 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34462122 - Jan 2023 (247 comments) IRS will look into setting up a free e-filing system - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32753099 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32753099 - Sept 2022 (408 comments) The IRS could be on the verge of changing the way Americans file their taxes - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32550841 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32550841 - Aug 2022 (17 comments) IRS will study free tax filing options - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32502321 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32502321 - Aug 2022 (25 comments) TurboTax’s fight against free tax filing - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31072202 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31072202 - April 2022 (394 comments) Filing taxes could be free & simple. H&R Block & Intuit lobby against it (2017) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30856968 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30856968 - March 2022 (114 comments) FTC sues Intuit for its deceptive TurboTax “free” filing campaign - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30846071 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30846071 - March 2022 (587 comments) Ask HN: How does TurboTax get away with dark patterns? - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30409523 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30409523 - Feb 2022 (122 comments) Why do Americans have to pay much to file their tax returns when the IRS knows? - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30267361 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30267361 - Feb 2022 (22 comments) Filing Taxes Could Be Free and Simple. But H&R Block and Intuit Lobby Against It (2017) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30185484 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30185484 - Feb 2022 (18 comments) California tried to save the nation from tax filing, then Intuit stepped in - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28944200 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28944200 - Oct 2021 (283 comments) The IRS has a big opportunity to fix the way Americans file taxes - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28177289 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28177289 - Aug 2021 (12 comments) UsTaxes – open-source tax filing web application - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27998452 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27998452 - July 2021 (53 comments) Good Riddance, TurboTax. Americans Need a Real ‘Free File’ Program - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27902380 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27902380 - July 2021 (248 comments) Intuit will no longer be a part of IRS Free File program - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27865625 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27865625 - July 2021 (140 comments) Killing TurboTax - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26330584 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26330584 - March 2021 (662 comments) Show HN: ustaxes.org – open-source tax filing webapp - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26138446 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26138446 - Feb 2021 (219 comments) TurboTax Tricked You into Paying to File Your Taxes (2019) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26102695 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26102695 - Feb 2021 (306 comments) TurboTax’s 20-Year Fight to Stop Americans from Filing Taxes for Free (2019) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26060414 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26060414 - Feb 2021 (199 comments) FTC Is Investigating Intuit over TurboTax Practices - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24409093 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24409093 - Sept 2020 (194 comments) IRS stops firms like TurboTax from hiding free tax-filing products in searches - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21948935 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21948935 - Jan 2020 (25 comments) IRS Reforms Free File Program, Drops Agreement Not to Compete with TurboTax - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21923220 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21923220 - Dec 2019 (448 comments) IRS Tried to Hide Emails That Show Tax Industry Influence over Free File Program - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21393758 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21393758 - Oct 2019 (188 comments) TurboTax’s 20-Year Fight to Stop Americans from Filing Taxes for Free - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21281411 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21281411 - Oct 2019 (447 comments) TurboTax to charge more lower-income customers - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20461169 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20461169 - July 2019 (81 comments) Congress Scraps Provision to Restrict IRS from Competing with TurboTax - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20119916 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20119916 - June 2019 (18 comments) TurboTax Uses a “Military Discount” to Trick Troops into Paying to File Taxes - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19994118 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19994118 - May 2019 (42 comments) Listen to TurboTax Lie to Get Out of Refunding Overcharged Customers - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19870242 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19870242 - May 2019 (44 comments) TurboTax and H&R Block Saw Free Tax Filing as a Threat - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19810981 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19810981 - May 2019 (143 comments) TurboTax Hides Its Free File Page from Search Engines - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19758126 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19758126 - April 2019 (262 comments) TurboTax Uses Dark Patterns to Trick You into Paying to File Your Taxes - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19718284 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19718284 - April 2019 (274 comments) Congress Is About to Ban the US Government from Offering Free Online Tax Filing - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19613725 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19613725 - April 2019 (696 comments) Filing Your Taxes Is an Expensive Time Sink. That’s Not an Accident - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19572917 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19572917 - April 2019 (155 comments) How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing (2013) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19392673 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19392673 - March 2019 (253 comments) H&R Block and Intuit Lobby Against Free and Simple Tax Filing (2017) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18956883 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18956883 - Jan 2019 (190 comments) Would You Let the I.R.S. Prepare Your Taxes? (2015) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17751383 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17751383 - Aug 2018 (424 comments) IRS electronic filing system breaks down hours before midnight deadline - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16860086 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16860086 - April 2018 (97 comments) Why I'm boycotting TurboTax this year - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16844458 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16844458 - April 2018 (23 comments) H&R Block and Intuit Lobbying Against Simpler Tax Filing (2017) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16841449 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16841449 - April 2018 (232 comments) Stanford Professor Loses Political Battle To Simplify Tax Filing Process - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13990391 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13990391 - March 2017 (386 comments) H&R Block and Intuit Are Lobbying Against Making Tax Filling Free and Easy - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13922482 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13922482 - March 2017 (234 comments) How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing (2013) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13853150 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13853150 - March 2017 (439 comments) US Senator Warren Introduces Bill to Simplify Tax Filing - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11492025 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11492025 - April 2016 (155 comments) TurboTax Takes Aim at Smaller Rival in Fight for Filers - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11150694 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11150694 - Feb 2016 (87 comments) Would You Let the I.R.S. Prepare Your Taxes? - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9381437 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9381437 - April 2015 (150 comments) Would You Let the I.R.S. Prepare Your Taxes? - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9380232 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9380232 - April 2015 (124 comments) TurboTax Maker Intuit Funnels Millions to Lobby Against Easier Tax Returns - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7595440 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7595440 - April 2014 (182 comments) Filing taxes: It shouldn't be so hard - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5488084 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5488084 - April 2013 (56 comments) How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5443203 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5443203 - March 2013 (330 comments) Intuit lobbies against California's free tax filing service - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1569169 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1569169 - Aug 2010 (29 comments)

kriro 3y ago

I applaud this. The old official German tax software (ElsterFormular) for doing my taxes was the only reason I kept Windows around on some machine. There used to be a free equivalent with less functionality (Geierlein) developed by a nice person, however the option to communicate with the government backend was shut down for free software (I'm simplifying a lot here, the whole storry is interesting and there's also the ORacle Java required issue etc. etc.). Germany has since moved to a web based solution (Elster Online) so I can now happily run Linux everywhere. Personally I feel like all government software should be libre because it's paid for by the people so I don't see why it shouldn't be open to the people. At the very least they should provide a clear and freely usable API to communicate with servers for transmitting data. Humerous sidenote I always thought it was kind of funny that the software is called Elster (magpie). At least someone in the government had a sense of humor.

byy 3y ago

A better way to convince the IRS is to give them real money under the table. This method works better than ANY other method. Which is basically what intuit is doing.

thomzane 3y ago

There is an AGPL program to fill the 1040 form. https://github.com/ustaxes/UsTaxes https://github.com/ustaxes/UsTaxes

didgetmaster 3y ago

A simpler tax system will take power away from those currently in charge (whether they are public facing like Senators or Presidents, or they are behind the scenes as in 'deep-state' bureaucrats or donors). This is why attempts to simplify the tax system never go anywhere.