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Mac OS is worse than windows in most respects when it comes to user choice. Things like app store requirements are slowly making their way from the phone to th

Mac OS is worse than windows in most respects when it comes to user choice. Things like app store requirements are slowly making their way from the phone to the devices and Apple will continue to lock down their ecosystem. I strongly encourage windows over macos, and Linux over Windows, if you can get away with the software supporting your use case.

seanmcdirmid 4y ago
While Windows has its advantages, you'll get a better experience (e.g. battery life) on Mac OS, partially because Apple is locking down the app experience. You can still use Linux or Windows if you want. Just don't try to take the choice away from the rest of us.
lockhouse 4y ago
This is total FUD. Other Apple devices are locked down like you say, but Macs are wide open. There is nothing preventing me from installing any software I want on it (so long as it is supported by macOS of course). The best, easiest, safest, path of least resistance app install experience is of course through the App Store, but it is not mandatory to use. Windows also has an App Store since Windows 8. That being said, I can download and run any software I please on my Mac without Apple's permission. Notarization is only required to prevent a scary (but easily bypassed) warning from popping up. This is also similar on Windows. Software that has not been properly digitally signed will pop up a similar scary warning. To top all of this off, macOS is a certified UNIX^tm system, which means I can easily compile software from source and use package managers like Homebrew. Apple has made no indications of removing any of this. Additionally, they have put no barriers in place to prevent the installation of Linux on Apple Silicon Macs via the Asahi Linux project, so that is always available as the nuclear option if Apple goes full lockdown on my devices.
vuln 4y ago
On my Mac I have an actual command line very similar to Linux. Not some bastardized WSL1/2 or powershell.
- howinteresting 4y ago
  Does sed -i work on macOS these days? It works great on WSL. The macOS toolchain sucks and typing in gsed all the time sucks even more.
  - misnome 4y ago
    Your beef appears to be with BSD. And when you install the GNU tools it tells you how to setup your path to not have the prefix.
    - howinteresting 4y ago
      Yes, the GNU toolchain is leaps beyond BSD. Ah yes, and then plenty of scripts that assume BSD sed break.
- waboremo 4y ago
  I love using my macs for development, but I would not say that it's "very similar to linux". Having to go out of your way to install a package manager is one of these things. WSL is close enough to linux that a lot of docs just add in a little note for WSL users to follow linux instructions instead of windows.
  - arghnoname 4y ago
    I don't even think it should be a design goal to perfectly simulate the Linux interface. MacOS nix underpinnings are much more BSD than Linux. Yes, a package system like homebrew needs to be installed, but on the plus side you can choose if you want homebrew or macports. There's no getting around it, we have to individually learn all of the systems that we're on. Every time I'm on a linux system (I mostly use BSD) I'm badly thrown by systemd. This is my fault--I need to learn it--but it's always annoying to have to relearn how to do basic tasks on a similar yet different system.
    - waboremo 4y ago
ambicapter 4y ago
> Mac OS is worse than windows in most respects when it comes to user choice. Maybe, but the things they do with your lacking choice are 10000x better than what Windows does.
dmart 4y ago
People love to say stuff like this. Meanwhile, I've never opened the App Store, have installed every GUI app on my system with Homebrew, most notable apps aren't even distributed through the App Store...
- bioemerl 4y ago
  You're an exception to the rule and Apple will slowly squeeze their ecosystem to capture more control for the sake of "security and user experience". They've already started with the security chips and hardware locks on their laptops.
  - chatmasta 4y ago
    Apple is and always has been extremely dev-friendly on their desktop platform. Apple employees develop on macOS. More tellingly, so do many Microsoft employees.
    - bioemerl 4y ago
      That's not going to matter when we are talking about billions of dollars of service and app revenue from customers and the chance to lock developers into the Apple ecosystem as hard as they've locked consumers in.
jasonpeacock 4y ago
I don't want user choice, I want a computing appliance that Just Works - I don't want to spend all my time being a sysadmin. I've found OSX to be the best in that regard, there's a single place to find apps to purchase and download, and they Just Work. OS updates Just Work. I plug in peripherals and they Just Work. The same for my iPhone - much better experience than Android. I used to think user choice was important, and then I realized I was sacrificing user experience for a freedom that I never exercised.
- bioemerl 4y ago
  > I used to think user choice was important, and then I realized I was sacrificing user experience for a freedom that I never exercised. Once given up this is a freedom you will never get back, and when a government leverages this control to do something like erasing apps off your machine or tracking what you do there will be no choice left but to accept it. Demand usability and choice from your products. The apples of the world have established a false dichotomy.
- rektide 3y ago
  I recognize your value system but I feel compelled to point out we are Hacker News. The hacker ethos is flexible open general purpose computing spirit. The hacker ethos is breaking systems & pushing limits. I don't recognize your values as contributing the the computing universe. I don't recognize them as hackerly.

seanmcdirmid 4y ago

While Windows has its advantages, you'll get a better experience (e.g. battery life) on Mac OS, partially because Apple is locking down the app experience. You can still use Linux or Windows if you want. Just don't try to take the choice away from the rest of us.

lockhouse 4y ago

This is total FUD. Other Apple devices are locked down like you say, but Macs are wide open. There is nothing preventing me from installing any software I want on it (so long as it is supported by macOS of course). The best, easiest, safest, path of least resistance app install experience is of course through the App Store, but it is not mandatory to use. Windows also has an App Store since Windows 8. That being said, I can download and run any software I please on my Mac without Apple's permission. Notarization is only required to prevent a scary (but easily bypassed) warning from popping up. This is also similar on Windows. Software that has not been properly digitally signed will pop up a similar scary warning. To top all of this off, macOS is a certified UNIX^tm system, which means I can easily compile software from source and use package managers like Homebrew. Apple has made no indications of removing any of this. Additionally, they have put no barriers in place to prevent the installation of Linux on Apple Silicon Macs via the Asahi Linux project, so that is always available as the nuclear option if Apple goes full lockdown on my devices.

vuln 4y ago

On my Mac I have an actual command line very similar to Linux. Not some bastardized WSL1/2 or powershell.

howinteresting 4y ago
Does sed -i work on macOS these days? It works great on WSL. The macOS toolchain sucks and typing in gsed all the time sucks even more.
- misnome 4y ago
  Your beef appears to be with BSD. And when you install the GNU tools it tells you how to setup your path to not have the prefix.
  - howinteresting 4y ago
    Yes, the GNU toolchain is leaps beyond BSD. Ah yes, and then plenty of scripts that assume BSD sed break.
waboremo 4y ago
I love using my macs for development, but I would not say that it's "very similar to linux". Having to go out of your way to install a package manager is one of these things. WSL is close enough to linux that a lot of docs just add in a little note for WSL users to follow linux instructions instead of windows.
- arghnoname 4y ago
  I don't even think it should be a design goal to perfectly simulate the Linux interface. MacOS nix underpinnings are much more BSD than Linux. Yes, a package system like homebrew needs to be installed, but on the plus side you can choose if you want homebrew or macports. There's no getting around it, we have to individually learn all of the systems that we're on. Every time I'm on a linux system (I mostly use BSD) I'm badly thrown by systemd. This is my fault--I need to learn it--but it's always annoying to have to relearn how to do basic tasks on a similar yet different system.
  - waboremo 4y ago

ambicapter 4y ago

> Mac OS is worse than windows in most respects when it comes to user choice. Maybe, but the things they do with your lacking choice are 10000x better than what Windows does.

dmart 4y ago

People love to say stuff like this. Meanwhile, I've never opened the App Store, have installed every GUI app on my system with Homebrew, most notable apps aren't even distributed through the App Store...

bioemerl 4y ago
You're an exception to the rule and Apple will slowly squeeze their ecosystem to capture more control for the sake of "security and user experience". They've already started with the security chips and hardware locks on their laptops.
- chatmasta 4y ago
  Apple is and always has been extremely dev-friendly on their desktop platform. Apple employees develop on macOS. More tellingly, so do many Microsoft employees.
  - bioemerl 4y ago
    That's not going to matter when we are talking about billions of dollars of service and app revenue from customers and the chance to lock developers into the Apple ecosystem as hard as they've locked consumers in.

jasonpeacock 4y ago

I don't want user choice, I want a computing appliance that Just Works - I don't want to spend all my time being a sysadmin. I've found OSX to be the best in that regard, there's a single place to find apps to purchase and download, and they Just Work. OS updates Just Work. I plug in peripherals and they Just Work. The same for my iPhone - much better experience than Android. I used to think user choice was important, and then I realized I was sacrificing user experience for a freedom that I never exercised.

bioemerl 4y ago
> I used to think user choice was important, and then I realized I was sacrificing user experience for a freedom that I never exercised. Once given up this is a freedom you will never get back, and when a government leverages this control to do something like erasing apps off your machine or tracking what you do there will be no choice left but to accept it. Demand usability and choice from your products. The apples of the world have established a false dichotomy.
rektide 3y ago
I recognize your value system but I feel compelled to point out we are Hacker News. The hacker ethos is flexible open general purpose computing spirit. The hacker ethos is breaking systems & pushing limits. I don't recognize your values as contributing the the computing universe. I don't recognize them as hackerly.