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So frustrating that Europe and Asia are getting all the nice compact EVs; once again Americans get stuck with the giant monstrosities.

smt88 3y ago
There are quite a few EV sedans and small hatchbacks available. Hyundai Kona is an affordable, small hatchback.
- decafninja 3y ago
  Kona and even the Ioniq5/EV6/G60 are probably closer to being hatchbacks than SUVs. But purists will still chide you that they are SUVs (or specifically, CUVs, which they still consider evil).
- crote 3y ago
  In Europe the Kona is being marketed as a SUV, and as someone who semi-regularly drives a rental one I have to agree. It is definitely not something I would describe as "small".
  - smt88 3y ago
    Is a Camry large, then? Kona dimensions: 166″ L x 71″ W x 61-62″ H Camry dimensions: 192-193″ L x 72″ W x 56-57″ H The Kona is much shorter, a tiny bit narrower, and only 5" taller.
rcme 3y ago
Almost no one outside of NYC and Boston want such a small car. Small cars aren’t even really a safe option given how big the other cars are.
- slaw 3y ago
  Almost noone wants small cars in Europe either. People want cheap cars not small.
  - crote 3y ago
    Everyone living in cities does want one. Larger cars rarely provide a significant tangible benefit, and in return you'll constantly have trouble trying to fit it into spaces designed for far smaller cars. American pickup trucks simply do not exist in Europe for a reason.
    - slaw 3y ago
      No, people don't want tiny cars like Bolt and don't want American pickups too. I don't know a single person who wants a small car.
    - rcme 3y ago
      People in cities need a small car, which is different than wanting a small car. I definitely had a small car in NYC out of necessity, but still wished I could bring my daughter's crib to my parents' place on the weekend (obviously impossible in a small car while bringing the family along).
  - Symbiote 3y ago
    Plenty of people in Europe want a smaller car, as it's easier to drive and park. This is especially the case if their household also has a larger car. ("Which car are we going in, dad?" "The black one, I don't want to drive the blue one round town." = my childhood.)
- pathartl 3y ago
  I drive regularly from Milwaukee to Kenosha county and I have a Mini Cooper. I love it. It's not super comfortable for passengers and it's hard to do long road trips due to lack of storage space, but whenever we need more space we take my SO's 2 door Civic. I know many, many people who have multiple vehicles and they could absolutely get away with half of their vehicles being on the smaller side.
- ROTMetro 3y ago
  I love my small sports hatch. My old WRX wagon was even better and served a starting family of 4 just fine. People definitely want such small cars.
- piperswe 3y ago
  Larger cars are more likely to get into a car accident in the first place [1]. While a smaller car may be less safe in the event of an accident [2], they may not necessarily be less safe overall. [1]: https://www.insurancehotline.com/resources/are-small-cars-more-likely-be-car-accidents-large-vehicles/ https://www.insurancehotline.com/resources/are-small-cars-mo... [2]: https://www.motorbiscuit.com/larger-vehicles-smaller-cars-safer-disturbing-truth/ https://www.motorbiscuit.com/larger-vehicles-smaller-cars-sa...
  - rcme 3y ago
    I don't understand the data in the first link. What is "Percentage of Accidents for Small Vehicles" and "Percentage of Accidents for Large Vehicles"? They didn't define how they compute this.
LazyMans 3y ago
I feel your pain, however, it's probably driven mostly by demand, and that demand just isn't high enough when you have limited resources for production.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- warning26 3y ago
  I interpret it as Americans just have awful taste in cars.
duffyjp 3y ago
I drive a Prius C. I adore it, see them everywhere and of course it was canceled. I live in Wisconsin and so see so many full sized trucks that have never touched a dirt road or been to a Home Depot. If everybody got 50mpg in a little economy car we wouldn't even need EVs.
- LazyMans 3y ago
  I sold my Prius C last year and it was the biggest mistake. The goal was to get a slightly larger hatchback like the Kia Niro, but now I want the newer body style Niro but cant stomach buying a new car at a dealer. I'm stuck at the moment waiting for all these repos to come through so I can get something cheap for cash.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- hot_gril 3y ago
  Exactly. More than 2/3 of cars in the US are SUVs/trucks nowadays. To me, this means we aren't allowed to complain about gas prices. Most people are willingly buying a brand new car that gets like the same MPG as my beat up old Ford Crown Vic. It's also an annoying race to the top because SUVs block visibility and pose a threat to your car during an accident, unless of course you buy your own SUV (the Vic is also ok).
exabrial 3y ago
The best way to support it is to buy one... Unfortunately the same thing happened to the Volt, which was an engineering masterpiece.
- decafninja 3y ago
  Tangent, but there is a running joke amongst sports car enthusiast circles. A: "Woe is me! They discontinued <insert sports car here> in favor of more SUVs!" B: "Because no one bought <insert sports car here>!" A: "But I would have! In five years, used!" For now, I think those that want an EV, are in fact, buying (or leasing) them new though.
  - WorldMaker 3y ago
    Relatedly, there is interesting indirect evidence that the US market is dominated by "Spiders Georg" ("SUVs Georg") outliers that should not be counted. The SUVs Georg buy/lease new SUVs, crash them in 1-5 years, then buy/lease new SUVs. The used market sees a strange fraction of SUV sales and interest in SUV ownership compared to the new market, but the car companies don't sell to the used markets they like the high profit margins of the SUVs Georg.
    - decafninja 3y ago
      I don't think you even have to analyze that deep. "Mainstream buyers", who in this day and age, mean CUV buyers - will go to a dealership and lease a new CUV every 3 years. As you said, these are the ones that make money for the manufacturers. Not the enthusiast who waits 5 years to buy his dream sports car used.

smt88 3y ago

There are quite a few EV sedans and small hatchbacks available. Hyundai Kona is an affordable, small hatchback.

decafninja 3y ago
Kona and even the Ioniq5/EV6/G60 are probably closer to being hatchbacks than SUVs. But purists will still chide you that they are SUVs (or specifically, CUVs, which they still consider evil).
crote 3y ago
In Europe the Kona is being marketed as a SUV, and as someone who semi-regularly drives a rental one I have to agree. It is definitely not something I would describe as "small".
- smt88 3y ago
  Is a Camry large, then? Kona dimensions: 166″ L x 71″ W x 61-62″ H Camry dimensions: 192-193″ L x 72″ W x 56-57″ H The Kona is much shorter, a tiny bit narrower, and only 5" taller.

rcme 3y ago

Almost no one outside of NYC and Boston want such a small car. Small cars aren’t even really a safe option given how big the other cars are.

slaw 3y ago
Almost noone wants small cars in Europe either. People want cheap cars not small.
- crote 3y ago
  Everyone living in cities does want one. Larger cars rarely provide a significant tangible benefit, and in return you'll constantly have trouble trying to fit it into spaces designed for far smaller cars. American pickup trucks simply do not exist in Europe for a reason.
  - slaw 3y ago
    No, people don't want tiny cars like Bolt and don't want American pickups too. I don't know a single person who wants a small car.
  - rcme 3y ago
    People in cities need a small car, which is different than wanting a small car. I definitely had a small car in NYC out of necessity, but still wished I could bring my daughter's crib to my parents' place on the weekend (obviously impossible in a small car while bringing the family along).
- Symbiote 3y ago
  Plenty of people in Europe want a smaller car, as it's easier to drive and park. This is especially the case if their household also has a larger car. ("Which car are we going in, dad?" "The black one, I don't want to drive the blue one round town." = my childhood.)
pathartl 3y ago
I drive regularly from Milwaukee to Kenosha county and I have a Mini Cooper. I love it. It's not super comfortable for passengers and it's hard to do long road trips due to lack of storage space, but whenever we need more space we take my SO's 2 door Civic. I know many, many people who have multiple vehicles and they could absolutely get away with half of their vehicles being on the smaller side.
ROTMetro 3y ago
I love my small sports hatch. My old WRX wagon was even better and served a starting family of 4 just fine. People definitely want such small cars.
piperswe 3y ago
Larger cars are more likely to get into a car accident in the first place [1]. While a smaller car may be less safe in the event of an accident [2], they may not necessarily be less safe overall. [1]: https://www.insurancehotline.com/resources/are-small-cars-more-likely-be-car-accidents-large-vehicles/ https://www.insurancehotline.com/resources/are-small-cars-mo... [2]: https://www.motorbiscuit.com/larger-vehicles-smaller-cars-safer-disturbing-truth/ https://www.motorbiscuit.com/larger-vehicles-smaller-cars-sa...
- rcme 3y ago
  I don't understand the data in the first link. What is "Percentage of Accidents for Small Vehicles" and "Percentage of Accidents for Large Vehicles"? They didn't define how they compute this.

LazyMans 3y ago

I feel your pain, however, it's probably driven mostly by demand, and that demand just isn't high enough when you have limited resources for production.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
warning26 3y ago
I interpret it as Americans just have awful taste in cars.

duffyjp 3y ago

I drive a Prius C. I adore it, see them everywhere and of course it was canceled. I live in Wisconsin and so see so many full sized trucks that have never touched a dirt road or been to a Home Depot. If everybody got 50mpg in a little economy car we wouldn't even need EVs.

LazyMans 3y ago
I sold my Prius C last year and it was the biggest mistake. The goal was to get a slightly larger hatchback like the Kia Niro, but now I want the newer body style Niro but cant stomach buying a new car at a dealer. I'm stuck at the moment waiting for all these repos to come through so I can get something cheap for cash.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
hot_gril 3y ago
Exactly. More than 2/3 of cars in the US are SUVs/trucks nowadays. To me, this means we aren't allowed to complain about gas prices. Most people are willingly buying a brand new car that gets like the same MPG as my beat up old Ford Crown Vic. It's also an annoying race to the top because SUVs block visibility and pose a threat to your car during an accident, unless of course you buy your own SUV (the Vic is also ok).

exabrial 3y ago

The best way to support it is to buy one... Unfortunately the same thing happened to the Volt, which was an engineering masterpiece.

decafninja 3y ago
Tangent, but there is a running joke amongst sports car enthusiast circles. A: "Woe is me! They discontinued <insert sports car here> in favor of more SUVs!" B: "Because no one bought <insert sports car here>!" A: "But I would have! In five years, used!" For now, I think those that want an EV, are in fact, buying (or leasing) them new though.
- WorldMaker 3y ago
  Relatedly, there is interesting indirect evidence that the US market is dominated by "Spiders Georg" ("SUVs Georg") outliers that should not be counted. The SUVs Georg buy/lease new SUVs, crash them in 1-5 years, then buy/lease new SUVs. The used market sees a strange fraction of SUV sales and interest in SUV ownership compared to the new market, but the car companies don't sell to the used markets they like the high profit margins of the SUVs Georg.
  - decafninja 3y ago
    I don't think you even have to analyze that deep. "Mainstream buyers", who in this day and age, mean CUV buyers - will go to a dealership and lease a new CUV every 3 years. As you said, these are the ones that make money for the manufacturers. Not the enthusiast who waits 5 years to buy his dream sports car used.