5 ms·

Sorry, but trying to be optimistic about RISC-V is only going to lead to more pain. It's just an instruction set architecture and it's still going to be made i

Sorry, but trying to be optimistic about RISC-V is only going to lead to more pain. It's just an instruction set architecture and it's still going to be made in large SoC fabs by Qualcomm-class companies that want to save a buck on ARM licensing. There's no way to win here.

freedomben 4y ago
You're right RISC-V just existing won't save us. I mentioned in a sibling comment, but my hope is that it leads to more competition so there are at least options. It probably is naive since these days there are tech startups and tech giants, and any startup that starts to gain traction will go for an exit strategy to be acquired, then it will killed. So things are probably not going to get much better. Perhaps though, with RISC-V options there could be a real solid open source option (aka a Linux phone). It wouldn't have to be nearly as mature and polished as the duopoly, but at least something that allows people to participate in modern society (much like desktop linux is now).
- inamberclad 4y ago
  What does an ISA really help with, though? Qualcomm doesn't have an advantage because of an ISA, they have an advantage because creating power efficient RF designs that keep up with the latest standards is incredibly hard. Until someone can compete with them on a bandwidth per watt ratio, they will continue to abuse their position.
- mdasen 4y ago
  > my hope is that it leads to more competition so there are at least options There are already lots of options within the ARM instruction set. The problem is that Qualcomm makes the best modems and the best (non-Apple) processors and uses their wireless patents and chip lead to squash competition. > Perhaps though, with RISC-V options there could be a real solid open source option (aka a Linux phone) The issue isn't the ARM instruction set. We have Linux smartphones (beyond Android) that you can buy today. You can buy a PinePhone and run Ubuntu Touch, postmarketOS, Mobil, LuneOS, and more. You can buy a Librem or Volla Phone or Fairphone. If you want out of the duopoly of Apple and Google, there are devices you could have shipped to you today! The problem isn't the ARM instruction set and getting RISC-V processors wouldn't make much of a difference for Linux (or FOSS in general) on smartphones. The ARM instruction set isn't what is keeping the tech giants in power.
  - omniglottal 4y ago
    Do any of the alternative options that you list have a battery life of more than 4 hours of usage? If not then, indeed, we have no real options.
    - MildlySerious 4y ago
      I have the /e/OS Fairphone 4 and the battery life is pretty good. To be fair, I've only owned the smaller versions (Galaxy Mini) and non-flagship phones before, so this one is quite a bit bulkier in comparison. With my low usage, over a year after purchase the battery still lasts for multiple days. My previous phones I used to charge every night, anyway.
  - mattmaroon 4y ago
    “ The ARM instruction set isn't what is keeping the tech giants in power.” Right, it’s the fact that (I’m assuming) simple stuff like checking my email is a nightmare on any phone that isn’t iPhone or Android. I know I could probably switch email clients, but is that worth it? And all the other apps that either suck on the web or don’t even exist. It’s such a chicken and egg problem that even Microsoft couldn’t crack it, despite making a perfectly good OS and hardware. By the time you are two years late to the party it’s already over.
traverseda 4y ago
Well hopefully it lowers some barriers to entry at least.
ilyt 4y ago
It's weird how much hype is around it considering about only advantage of it is "now corporations don't have to pay central entity for ISA".
- joezydeco 4y ago
  Because we all dream of sub-$1 Linux processors that boot freely without blobs and have loads of wonderful usable documentation. I kind of want to modify that old adage to now read "cheap, open, documented. You can pick two."
  - opan 4y ago
    If you picked cheap and documented, chances are it's documented primarily in Chinese also.
    - joezydeco 4y ago
      And it's already discontinued.
  - ilyt 4y ago
    If it is actually cheap and open, documentation generally gets done if product lives long enough
fsflover 4y ago
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35507322 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35507322

freedomben 4y ago

You're right RISC-V just existing won't save us. I mentioned in a sibling comment, but my hope is that it leads to more competition so there are at least options. It probably is naive since these days there are tech startups and tech giants, and any startup that starts to gain traction will go for an exit strategy to be acquired, then it will killed. So things are probably not going to get much better. Perhaps though, with RISC-V options there could be a real solid open source option (aka a Linux phone). It wouldn't have to be nearly as mature and polished as the duopoly, but at least something that allows people to participate in modern society (much like desktop linux is now).

inamberclad 4y ago
What does an ISA really help with, though? Qualcomm doesn't have an advantage because of an ISA, they have an advantage because creating power efficient RF designs that keep up with the latest standards is incredibly hard. Until someone can compete with them on a bandwidth per watt ratio, they will continue to abuse their position.
mdasen 4y ago
> my hope is that it leads to more competition so there are at least options There are already lots of options within the ARM instruction set. The problem is that Qualcomm makes the best modems and the best (non-Apple) processors and uses their wireless patents and chip lead to squash competition. > Perhaps though, with RISC-V options there could be a real solid open source option (aka a Linux phone) The issue isn't the ARM instruction set. We have Linux smartphones (beyond Android) that you can buy today. You can buy a PinePhone and run Ubuntu Touch, postmarketOS, Mobil, LuneOS, and more. You can buy a Librem or Volla Phone or Fairphone. If you want out of the duopoly of Apple and Google, there are devices you could have shipped to you today! The problem isn't the ARM instruction set and getting RISC-V processors wouldn't make much of a difference for Linux (or FOSS in general) on smartphones. The ARM instruction set isn't what is keeping the tech giants in power.
- omniglottal 4y ago
  Do any of the alternative options that you list have a battery life of more than 4 hours of usage? If not then, indeed, we have no real options.
  - MildlySerious 4y ago
    I have the /e/OS Fairphone 4 and the battery life is pretty good. To be fair, I've only owned the smaller versions (Galaxy Mini) and non-flagship phones before, so this one is quite a bit bulkier in comparison. With my low usage, over a year after purchase the battery still lasts for multiple days. My previous phones I used to charge every night, anyway.
- mattmaroon 4y ago
  “ The ARM instruction set isn't what is keeping the tech giants in power.” Right, it’s the fact that (I’m assuming) simple stuff like checking my email is a nightmare on any phone that isn’t iPhone or Android. I know I could probably switch email clients, but is that worth it? And all the other apps that either suck on the web or don’t even exist. It’s such a chicken and egg problem that even Microsoft couldn’t crack it, despite making a perfectly good OS and hardware. By the time you are two years late to the party it’s already over.

traverseda 4y ago

Well hopefully it lowers some barriers to entry at least.

ilyt 4y ago

It's weird how much hype is around it considering about only advantage of it is "now corporations don't have to pay central entity for ISA".

joezydeco 4y ago
Because we all dream of sub-$1 Linux processors that boot freely without blobs and have loads of wonderful usable documentation. I kind of want to modify that old adage to now read "cheap, open, documented. You can pick two."
- opan 4y ago
  If you picked cheap and documented, chances are it's documented primarily in Chinese also.
  - joezydeco 4y ago
    And it's already discontinued.
- ilyt 4y ago
  If it is actually cheap and open, documentation generally gets done if product lives long enough

fsflover 4y ago

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35507322 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35507322