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> When the phone is tapped, as far as the reader is concerned, it is a standard EMV card When I went to the US nobody seemed to understand this. Loads of shops

> When the phone is tapped, as far as the reader is concerned, it is a standard EMV card When I went to the US nobody seemed to understand this. Loads of shops would have a sticker saying "Apple Pay Accepted" or something, and when I took out my Pixel phone they would say, oh that isn't an iPhone that won't work. Of course, it worked every time because the card reader has no idea what brand of phone it is or if it's even a phone at all..

ghaff 4y ago
Yeah although I was just in Europe and it seems like pretty much everyone just taps a card [ADDED: This is probably an overstatement but lots seem to use a card.] rather than using their phone from what I saw. For most circumstances, even with an Apple Watch, it seems way easier in most circumstances to just tap a card than fumbling with electronics. Even compared to a few years ago, contactless payments seemed way more prevalent and frictionless. In Amsterdam, on the advice of a local, I did buy a chip card for transit as systems are still in the process of switching but my understanding is various transit systems there and elsewhere increasingly let you just tap a contactless credit card.
- jeroenhd 4y ago
  I see a mix of card tapping and phone tapping here. I myself only use my card when my phone is out of battery or when the amount to pay is larger than the bank allows by default (though I'm pretty sure you can raise that). It was pretty weird seeing Apple users around me get excited about finally being able to pay with their phones when the first bank here started offering Apple Pay. I guess they never noticed that every other brand of smartphone had been doing that for give years at that point? As for the public transit system, the stupid mess of checking in and out at varioustterminals still exists, but they are indeed working on using bank cards for public transit. They're of limited use though (no ability to store discounts and such) and not all transit companies accept them yet. I'm not sure what the situation is with credit cards, as the Netherlands is very much debit card oriented. The cards follow the same standards, but as any American trying to do groceries here will find out, that doesn't mean all cards will work on all terminals.
  - ghaff 4y ago
    >the Netherlands is very much debit card oriented I was told that and then I basically used nothing but my contactless credit card over the course of a week. But I was admittedly mostly in central Amsterdam and doing tourist stuff and restaurants.
    - dghughes 4y ago
      Canada is the same I can't recall the last time I used cash or coins, perhaps two decades? It's tap debit or now more frequently my phone using Google Wallet.
    - shellac 4y ago
      This has changed quite substantially over the last five+ years. It certainly used to be the case that using certain cards that were very common in the rest of Europe (particularly credit cards, but also things like visa debit) required jumping through hoops in the Netherlands, and often weren't accepted. A Dutch friend, who knows the industry a little, said that the Dutch banks had gone their own way with payment systems in the past. This heritage had taken some time to unwind. (I guess he was talking about things like Chipknip?)
      - ghaff 4y ago
        Another Amsterdam local advised just getting a pay as you go chip card for public transit. He said that they were in the process of implementing just accepting contactless credit/debit cards directly but it was a bit hit or miss whether that was accepted in general.
    - bangkoksbest 4y ago
      For example, the largest supermarket chain (Albert Heijn) usually won't take credit cards, with the exception of certain cities and contexts (train stations) where there are more foreigners.
  - markus92 4y ago
    American credit cards work just fine with OV Pay for both NS and regional public transport (tried it with a Chase Visa card). Side note: Albert Heijn also finally started accepting them, so credit cards are now accepted at almsot all merchants.
- stuartd 4y ago
  The PIN chip on my card stopped working months ago. Normally I’d have to get a new one and change my card details everywhere (hassle hassle) but I haven’t bothered as I can use Apple Pay for everything
- dom96 4y ago
  In London I would say majority use their phone. I switched around a year ago as well, it just means that I don't have to carry a wallet with me any more, took me a while to get confident in it but now I am. Going through the tube almost always works and the rare time that it doesn't you just try again and then it works.
  - ghaff 4y ago
    I switched to carrying a small front pocket wallet (basically a business card holder) a while back. It lets me have some bills for the odd vendor (e.g. food cart) that doesn't want to take a card for a small purchase and a few other things like ID that I like to have on me. In general, like paper boarding passes when they're convenient to print out I just find it easier to use a physical artifact rather than fumbling with my phone or watch. But I'm happy to admit that may be largely habit. Certainly in circumstances where carrying anything in a pocket was inconvenient, I can see using a watch.
  - walthamstow 4y ago
    We just moved into a WeWork office in Shoreditch and I am genuinely very annoyed that I now have to carry a building entry pass in the form of a card. I've spent years trying to shed all my cards and now I'm back to having to carry a wallet.
    - yowzadave 4y ago
      I was in a WeWork the other day, and saw somebody tap their phone to get entry to the office. I was amazed, assuming they had rolled out some new system that used phones for access. Nope—she just had her access card stuck inside her phone case.
    - dbbk 4y ago
      That really is annoying. Apple has APIs for adding door keys / office passes to the NFC wallet. WeWork could fix this if they wanted to.
      - _rs 4y ago
- Hamuko 4y ago
  I use a physical card at the grocery store because it combines my Visa card and the store rewards card into one. If I tap it against the reader, it first reads the rewards card via NFC, and then reads the Visa card via NFC. If I used my phone, I'd first need to get the clerk to scan some kind of a barcode from my phone and then I could pay via Apple Pay.
  - tuukkah 4y ago
    Why wouldn't the same work with a phone via NFC as with a physical card via NFC? At least my phone (Android) presents the virtual rewards card (one app) first, then the virtual credit card (another app).
    - Hamuko 4y ago
      I don't think Apple Pay can present multiple NFC cards automatically in succession or at the same time. And the rewards card cannot even be added to the Wallet anyways, since the bank's app only adds the Visa Debit/Credit cards, and the store rewards app doesn't add anything at all. I'm not sure if there's even an API to add store rewards cards as NFC cards, since all of my rewards cards in the Wallet are barcodes.
      - tuukkah 4y ago
        See e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Wallet#Supported_loyalty_programs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Wallet#Supported_loyalty... > These programs are conveyed through NFC via Apple Wallet's VAS protocol. Programs that support One Tap are conveyed at the same time as a payment card stored in Apple Wallet.
        Hamuko 4y ago
        Never knew about VAS. I guess I just need to lobby the store to implement the protocol then. Probably fat chance they'd actually implement it though.
- cameronh90 4y ago
  In London at least, few people use cards any more. People often still call phone payment card payment though - I guess people have mostly figured out it's the same underlying mechanism. Personally, I still carry a card in case my phone runs out of battery, but I keep it in the bottom of my backpack. If only Android had a way to pay if the phone was out of battery I could dump the cards entirely.
  - B2B_human 4y ago
    Incredibly, my iPhone died while walking in NYC, but was still able to use the transit card at a gate. It goes into a low power mode that still has the payment/transit card powered.
    - cameronh90 4y ago
      Indeed. Android currently lacks that feature but without it I don't feel confident in going completely plastic free. Perhaps at some point batteries will get so good that running out of battery just won't be a concern any more.
danpalmer 4y ago
Brands > Standards, unfortunately all too common in the US compared to Europe.

ghaff 4y ago

Yeah although I was just in Europe and it seems like pretty much everyone just taps a card [ADDED: This is probably an overstatement but lots seem to use a card.] rather than using their phone from what I saw. For most circumstances, even with an Apple Watch, it seems way easier in most circumstances to just tap a card than fumbling with electronics. Even compared to a few years ago, contactless payments seemed way more prevalent and frictionless. In Amsterdam, on the advice of a local, I did buy a chip card for transit as systems are still in the process of switching but my understanding is various transit systems there and elsewhere increasingly let you just tap a contactless credit card.

jeroenhd 4y ago
I see a mix of card tapping and phone tapping here. I myself only use my card when my phone is out of battery or when the amount to pay is larger than the bank allows by default (though I'm pretty sure you can raise that). It was pretty weird seeing Apple users around me get excited about finally being able to pay with their phones when the first bank here started offering Apple Pay. I guess they never noticed that every other brand of smartphone had been doing that for give years at that point? As for the public transit system, the stupid mess of checking in and out at varioustterminals still exists, but they are indeed working on using bank cards for public transit. They're of limited use though (no ability to store discounts and such) and not all transit companies accept them yet. I'm not sure what the situation is with credit cards, as the Netherlands is very much debit card oriented. The cards follow the same standards, but as any American trying to do groceries here will find out, that doesn't mean all cards will work on all terminals.
- ghaff 4y ago
  >the Netherlands is very much debit card oriented I was told that and then I basically used nothing but my contactless credit card over the course of a week. But I was admittedly mostly in central Amsterdam and doing tourist stuff and restaurants.
  - dghughes 4y ago
    Canada is the same I can't recall the last time I used cash or coins, perhaps two decades? It's tap debit or now more frequently my phone using Google Wallet.
  - shellac 4y ago
    This has changed quite substantially over the last five+ years. It certainly used to be the case that using certain cards that were very common in the rest of Europe (particularly credit cards, but also things like visa debit) required jumping through hoops in the Netherlands, and often weren't accepted. A Dutch friend, who knows the industry a little, said that the Dutch banks had gone their own way with payment systems in the past. This heritage had taken some time to unwind. (I guess he was talking about things like Chipknip?)
    - ghaff 4y ago
      Another Amsterdam local advised just getting a pay as you go chip card for public transit. He said that they were in the process of implementing just accepting contactless credit/debit cards directly but it was a bit hit or miss whether that was accepted in general.
  - bangkoksbest 4y ago
    For example, the largest supermarket chain (Albert Heijn) usually won't take credit cards, with the exception of certain cities and contexts (train stations) where there are more foreigners.
- markus92 4y ago
  American credit cards work just fine with OV Pay for both NS and regional public transport (tried it with a Chase Visa card). Side note: Albert Heijn also finally started accepting them, so credit cards are now accepted at almsot all merchants.
stuartd 4y ago
The PIN chip on my card stopped working months ago. Normally I’d have to get a new one and change my card details everywhere (hassle hassle) but I haven’t bothered as I can use Apple Pay for everything
dom96 4y ago
In London I would say majority use their phone. I switched around a year ago as well, it just means that I don't have to carry a wallet with me any more, took me a while to get confident in it but now I am. Going through the tube almost always works and the rare time that it doesn't you just try again and then it works.
- ghaff 4y ago
  I switched to carrying a small front pocket wallet (basically a business card holder) a while back. It lets me have some bills for the odd vendor (e.g. food cart) that doesn't want to take a card for a small purchase and a few other things like ID that I like to have on me. In general, like paper boarding passes when they're convenient to print out I just find it easier to use a physical artifact rather than fumbling with my phone or watch. But I'm happy to admit that may be largely habit. Certainly in circumstances where carrying anything in a pocket was inconvenient, I can see using a watch.
- walthamstow 4y ago
  We just moved into a WeWork office in Shoreditch and I am genuinely very annoyed that I now have to carry a building entry pass in the form of a card. I've spent years trying to shed all my cards and now I'm back to having to carry a wallet.
  - yowzadave 4y ago
    I was in a WeWork the other day, and saw somebody tap their phone to get entry to the office. I was amazed, assuming they had rolled out some new system that used phones for access. Nope—she just had her access card stuck inside her phone case.
  - dbbk 4y ago
    That really is annoying. Apple has APIs for adding door keys / office passes to the NFC wallet. WeWork could fix this if they wanted to.
    - _rs 4y ago
Hamuko 4y ago
I use a physical card at the grocery store because it combines my Visa card and the store rewards card into one. If I tap it against the reader, it first reads the rewards card via NFC, and then reads the Visa card via NFC. If I used my phone, I'd first need to get the clerk to scan some kind of a barcode from my phone and then I could pay via Apple Pay.
- tuukkah 4y ago
  Why wouldn't the same work with a phone via NFC as with a physical card via NFC? At least my phone (Android) presents the virtual rewards card (one app) first, then the virtual credit card (another app).
  - Hamuko 4y ago
    I don't think Apple Pay can present multiple NFC cards automatically in succession or at the same time. And the rewards card cannot even be added to the Wallet anyways, since the bank's app only adds the Visa Debit/Credit cards, and the store rewards app doesn't add anything at all. I'm not sure if there's even an API to add store rewards cards as NFC cards, since all of my rewards cards in the Wallet are barcodes.
    - tuukkah 4y ago
      See e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Wallet#Supported_loyalty_programs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Wallet#Supported_loyalty... > These programs are conveyed through NFC via Apple Wallet's VAS protocol. Programs that support One Tap are conveyed at the same time as a payment card stored in Apple Wallet.
      - Hamuko 4y ago
        Never knew about VAS. I guess I just need to lobby the store to implement the protocol then. Probably fat chance they'd actually implement it though.
cameronh90 4y ago
In London at least, few people use cards any more. People often still call phone payment card payment though - I guess people have mostly figured out it's the same underlying mechanism. Personally, I still carry a card in case my phone runs out of battery, but I keep it in the bottom of my backpack. If only Android had a way to pay if the phone was out of battery I could dump the cards entirely.
- B2B_human 4y ago
  Incredibly, my iPhone died while walking in NYC, but was still able to use the transit card at a gate. It goes into a low power mode that still has the payment/transit card powered.
  - cameronh90 4y ago
    Indeed. Android currently lacks that feature but without it I don't feel confident in going completely plastic free. Perhaps at some point batteries will get so good that running out of battery just won't be a concern any more.

danpalmer 4y ago

Brands > Standards, unfortunately all too common in the US compared to Europe.