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Everyone talks about sideloading as something to circumvent 30% tax. While maybe true, I'm interested to see if sideloading would allow new browser engines, lik

Everyone talks about sideloading as something to circumvent 30% tax. While maybe true, I'm interested to see if sideloading would allow new browser engines, like gecko or chromium. This will open a ton of possibilities weakening even more the walled garden

sharemywin 4y ago
side loading doesn't work in the US.
- madeofpalk 4y ago
  It doesn't work _anywhere_, as iPhone does not currently have sideloading. It's been reported that sideloading could come in iOS 17 later this year, in EU, but unannounced so far.
- Moldoteck 4y ago
  It may potentially work in eu in the future, so at least for me, it's nice)
brucethemoose2 4y ago
It already did IIRC. In the olden days, other browsers were ported to Cydia, the jailbreak store. And there is tons of cool stuff people did, you can look back through the history of jailbreaking to see what sideloading would open up.
- fastball 4y ago
  Worth noting that side-loading and rooting are not the same thing. Various aspects of the OS (APIs) would still be locked down, whether you can sideload apps or not. So you would not see all the cool tweaks that were (are?) available to jailbreakers.
  - brucethemoose2 4y ago
    Yeah this is true, but some of Cydia was just standalone apps that weren't allowed on the store.
paxys 4y ago
A simple way to answer that question is – is the only roadblock to building a custom browser in iOS that Apple will reject it during the review process? Or are there some fundamental missing APIs or piece of functionality in the platform itself? The latter gap will not be fixed even if you are able to bypass the App Store.
- userbinator 4y ago
  Or are there some fundamental missing APIs or piece of functionality in the platform itself? All you need is a framebuffer, network access, and some form of user input to produce a usable web browser, and they are all there in iOS.
  - paxys 4y ago
    So theoretically you should be able to grab an .ipa package with a native browser today and load it on your device in developer mode or through your enterprise program. The fact that not a single one actually exists seems more due to a technological limitation than the fact that no one has bothered to build it yet.
    - roywiggins 4y ago
      People have ported Gecko to IOS before. https://twitter.com/TedMielczarek/status/1176864567118483457 https://twitter.com/TedMielczarek/status/1176864567118483457
  - madeofpalk 4y ago
    ...and flagging pages of memory as executable to get JIT (or suffer slow JS speed), which is currently blocked by iOS sandboxing.
    - easton 4y ago
      Current browser research suggests you don’t need JIT, as evidenced by the ability to disable it on iOS. Wonder how close you could get to “great” performance with a Firefox port without JIT.
cute_boi 4y ago
Currently, I am dreaming of installing andriodesque Firefox using Altstore. But, I don't think anyone has provided such implementation .
kmlx 4y ago
> This will open a ton of possibilities the biggest possibility i see is chrome 99% market share.
- Gareth321 4y ago
  Maybe Apple will finally start competing? One can dream.
  - kmlx 4y ago
    it's already competing, and quite successfully (hello battery life and ram usage). but when google.com displays a "better in chrome" message, or when they adopt some proposal instead of waiting on the process, then it's no longer about competition.
- Moldoteck 4y ago
  for me it would be pwa's)
nuker 4y ago
> open a ton of possibilities weakening even more the walled garden It first will weaken security and privacy for common users. Walled garden is doing pretty good job at maintaining this.
- foepys 4y ago
  Why? I'd argue that legislation like GDPR had more positive impact on user privacy than any walled garden managed by any for-profit entity. See Uber using the device ID even against App Store policy for years and not getting immediately kicked out after discovery [1] Apple's clampdown on Facebook came after GDPR and apparently wasn't a problem for years until Apple decided it was beneficial to their marketing and a way to push their own ads better. Rule of thumb is: when you are big enough, you can do basically anything you want when you don't talk about it. 1: https://appleinsider.com/articles/17/04/23/after-tricking-govt-regulators-uber-got-caught-breaking-apples-ios-app-store-rules https://appleinsider.com/articles/17/04/23/after-tricking-go...
- Moldoteck 4y ago
  common users will not sideload apps, everyone happy)
  - nuker 4y ago
    They would, if FB says it is the only way.

sharemywin 4y ago

side loading doesn't work in the US.

madeofpalk 4y ago
It doesn't work _anywhere_, as iPhone does not currently have sideloading. It's been reported that sideloading could come in iOS 17 later this year, in EU, but unannounced so far.
Moldoteck 4y ago
It may potentially work in eu in the future, so at least for me, it's nice)

brucethemoose2 4y ago

It already did IIRC. In the olden days, other browsers were ported to Cydia, the jailbreak store. And there is tons of cool stuff people did, you can look back through the history of jailbreaking to see what sideloading would open up.

fastball 4y ago
Worth noting that side-loading and rooting are not the same thing. Various aspects of the OS (APIs) would still be locked down, whether you can sideload apps or not. So you would not see all the cool tweaks that were (are?) available to jailbreakers.
- brucethemoose2 4y ago
  Yeah this is true, but some of Cydia was just standalone apps that weren't allowed on the store.

paxys 4y ago

A simple way to answer that question is – is the only roadblock to building a custom browser in iOS that Apple will reject it during the review process? Or are there some fundamental missing APIs or piece of functionality in the platform itself? The latter gap will not be fixed even if you are able to bypass the App Store.

userbinator 4y ago
Or are there some fundamental missing APIs or piece of functionality in the platform itself? All you need is a framebuffer, network access, and some form of user input to produce a usable web browser, and they are all there in iOS.
- paxys 4y ago
  So theoretically you should be able to grab an .ipa package with a native browser today and load it on your device in developer mode or through your enterprise program. The fact that not a single one actually exists seems more due to a technological limitation than the fact that no one has bothered to build it yet.
  - roywiggins 4y ago
    People have ported Gecko to IOS before. https://twitter.com/TedMielczarek/status/1176864567118483457 https://twitter.com/TedMielczarek/status/1176864567118483457
- madeofpalk 4y ago
  ...and flagging pages of memory as executable to get JIT (or suffer slow JS speed), which is currently blocked by iOS sandboxing.
  - easton 4y ago
    Current browser research suggests you don’t need JIT, as evidenced by the ability to disable it on iOS. Wonder how close you could get to “great” performance with a Firefox port without JIT.

cute_boi 4y ago

Currently, I am dreaming of installing andriodesque Firefox using Altstore. But, I don't think anyone has provided such implementation .

kmlx 4y ago

> This will open a ton of possibilities the biggest possibility i see is chrome 99% market share.

Gareth321 4y ago
Maybe Apple will finally start competing? One can dream.
- kmlx 4y ago
  it's already competing, and quite successfully (hello battery life and ram usage). but when google.com displays a "better in chrome" message, or when they adopt some proposal instead of waiting on the process, then it's no longer about competition.
Moldoteck 4y ago
for me it would be pwa's)

nuker 4y ago

> open a ton of possibilities weakening even more the walled garden It first will weaken security and privacy for common users. Walled garden is doing pretty good job at maintaining this.

foepys 4y ago
Why? I'd argue that legislation like GDPR had more positive impact on user privacy than any walled garden managed by any for-profit entity. See Uber using the device ID even against App Store policy for years and not getting immediately kicked out after discovery [1] Apple's clampdown on Facebook came after GDPR and apparently wasn't a problem for years until Apple decided it was beneficial to their marketing and a way to push their own ads better. Rule of thumb is: when you are big enough, you can do basically anything you want when you don't talk about it. 1: https://appleinsider.com/articles/17/04/23/after-tricking-govt-regulators-uber-got-caught-breaking-apples-ios-app-store-rules https://appleinsider.com/articles/17/04/23/after-tricking-go...
Moldoteck 4y ago
common users will not sideload apps, everyone happy)
- nuker 4y ago
  They would, if FB says it is the only way.