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So it seems like where we're at with this is... Apple can continue to charge a 30% fee on all transactions, but maybe can't prevent apps that direct users to si

So it seems like where we're at with this is... Apple can continue to charge a 30% fee on all transactions, but maybe can't prevent apps that direct users to sign up through a web browser to avoid the fees? (Pending further appeals)

cpleppert 4y ago
My understanding is that Apple can still contractually require developers to hand over the 30% even if developers use a third party service. The judge's ruling was pretty narrow; it essentially allows nothing more than a link to an alternative payment platform. I haven't seen any in-depth analysis of the case to suggest that this is any kind of 'loophole' that could be used to avoid paying apple.
- judge2020 4y ago
  Most likely 27% like in the Netherlands: https://9to5mac.com/2022/02/04/apple-will-charge-27-commission-for-purchases-made-using-alternative-payment-systems-in-the-netherlands/ https://9to5mac.com/2022/02/04/apple-will-charge-27-commissi...
- threeseed 4y ago
  This is exactly with happened in Netherlands with the dating apps [1]. Apple was forced to allow third party payment systems. And they did. But they were still allowed to keep their commission and in fact no regulator or court anywhere has said otherwise. [1] https://developer.apple.com/support/storekit-external-entitlement/ https://developer.apple.com/support/storekit-external-entitl...
  - Spivak 4y ago
    This is why I think it's so misguided when people talk about and push for "alternative payment processors" or "alternative app stores" when what they really mean is "I don't want to pay 30%" and just hope it comes for free with the former. Okay cool you can have alternative app stores, you still need a business relationship with Apple, have to submit your apps for review to get your app signed, and turn over I guess 27% of all digital goods sold. But you can have your own storefront and downloader. Congrats.
    - smoldesu 4y ago
      Which really goes to demonstrate how ridiculous this is. The iPhone is a coin-operated software runtime. You pay for it at the register and buy the right to own the phone, but your ownership of the software is constantly jeopardized. Everything you use for free you take for granted, and everything you pay for is rent-extracted by the world's largest company. It's a harmful business. You can argue there are benefits, but the surcharge for simply using the Apple runtime is asinine. It should be loathed and shunned from the highest court, rendered unconscionable for any company of any size. Apple and Google can charge a 90% tax on their app stores for all I care. Those stores simply need competition to compel non-harmful practice. Otherwise, they're completely unaccountable. They've already proven this with their non-cooperation in the browser industry.
      - lotsofpulp 4y ago
        > It's a harmful business. All I know is iOS/iPadOS have made it possible for my parents and all the non native English literate, mostly uneducated elders in my family able to use modern computing devices without me ever having to worry about malware. And there is no alternative.
        smoldesu 4y ago
        The alternative is a developer mode switch with a big "Don't Touch This, Grandma!" modal when you press it. People who want to install their own software do not conflict with your parents or the non-native English literate uneducated elders in your family.
        MBCook 4y ago
        And what’s the first thing every scam will now tell people to do? Turn dev mode on so they can install the “malware remover” or “fix the Facebook app” or whatever to be able to execute the scam.
        jeppester 4y ago
jbverschoor 4y ago
Same for xbox, nintendo, playstation, right? Same for the unreal engine... The 30% is the max they charge, so it's not a completely fair number. After a year it's 15%, of which about 2-3% is card fees, and they handle taxes.

cpleppert 4y ago

My understanding is that Apple can still contractually require developers to hand over the 30% even if developers use a third party service. The judge's ruling was pretty narrow; it essentially allows nothing more than a link to an alternative payment platform. I haven't seen any in-depth analysis of the case to suggest that this is any kind of 'loophole' that could be used to avoid paying apple.

judge2020 4y ago
Most likely 27% like in the Netherlands: https://9to5mac.com/2022/02/04/apple-will-charge-27-commission-for-purchases-made-using-alternative-payment-systems-in-the-netherlands/ https://9to5mac.com/2022/02/04/apple-will-charge-27-commissi...
threeseed 4y ago
This is exactly with happened in Netherlands with the dating apps [1]. Apple was forced to allow third party payment systems. And they did. But they were still allowed to keep their commission and in fact no regulator or court anywhere has said otherwise. [1] https://developer.apple.com/support/storekit-external-entitlement/ https://developer.apple.com/support/storekit-external-entitl...
- Spivak 4y ago
  This is why I think it's so misguided when people talk about and push for "alternative payment processors" or "alternative app stores" when what they really mean is "I don't want to pay 30%" and just hope it comes for free with the former. Okay cool you can have alternative app stores, you still need a business relationship with Apple, have to submit your apps for review to get your app signed, and turn over I guess 27% of all digital goods sold. But you can have your own storefront and downloader. Congrats.
  - smoldesu 4y ago
    Which really goes to demonstrate how ridiculous this is. The iPhone is a coin-operated software runtime. You pay for it at the register and buy the right to own the phone, but your ownership of the software is constantly jeopardized. Everything you use for free you take for granted, and everything you pay for is rent-extracted by the world's largest company. It's a harmful business. You can argue there are benefits, but the surcharge for simply using the Apple runtime is asinine. It should be loathed and shunned from the highest court, rendered unconscionable for any company of any size. Apple and Google can charge a 90% tax on their app stores for all I care. Those stores simply need competition to compel non-harmful practice. Otherwise, they're completely unaccountable. They've already proven this with their non-cooperation in the browser industry.
    - lotsofpulp 4y ago
      > It's a harmful business. All I know is iOS/iPadOS have made it possible for my parents and all the non native English literate, mostly uneducated elders in my family able to use modern computing devices without me ever having to worry about malware. And there is no alternative.
      - smoldesu 4y ago
        The alternative is a developer mode switch with a big "Don't Touch This, Grandma!" modal when you press it. People who want to install their own software do not conflict with your parents or the non-native English literate uneducated elders in your family.
        MBCook 4y ago
        And what’s the first thing every scam will now tell people to do? Turn dev mode on so they can install the “malware remover” or “fix the Facebook app” or whatever to be able to execute the scam.
        jeppester 4y ago

jbverschoor 4y ago

Same for xbox, nintendo, playstation, right? Same for the unreal engine... The 30% is the max they charge, so it's not a completely fair number. After a year it's 15%, of which about 2-3% is card fees, and they handle taxes.