5 ms·

Make as much as you can and bank the extra. The only real security you have is your own assets and financial discipline.

toomuchtodo 3y ago
This! FIRE as fast as you can so you’re not at the whim of this class of people (management class, broadly speaking). There is no security, no one is coming to save you except you. I speak from experience.
- rwmj 3y ago
  Rates of pay are so high in tech that I wonder if there will come a crisis when many people take early retirement. (Obviously I'm not saying this is a bad thing)
  - aeyes 3y ago
    The amount of new grads and people coming in from other trades because they want a piece of the cake is high enough to keep supporting the flywheel. It would be interesting to see median age of engineers at tech companies, here it's definitely well under 35.
  - away271828 3y ago
    Anecdotally, I see some people in their 40s or early 50s who made very serious money and worked really hard (founders, CEOs, and the like) end up doing some of the on-the-side type of work that gets thrown at people in that position (boards, "advisors," and the like). But I don't actually see a huge number of late career regular employees (even fairly well-compensated ones) retiring way early.
- htag 3y ago
  FIRE is obviously nice. I do think "bank the extra" is significantly more attainable, while providing a lot of extra security. 1. He doesn't have to change his spending habits at all. He just needs to direct the extra income into a saving account, maybe check on it one a month/quarter/year and move it someplace like CDs, Bonds, or ETFs. 2. His goal is to continue to work. Having a healthy savings account can keep you secure while looking for another job.
  - toomuchtodo 3y ago
    I'm not advocating for FI (edit: removed RE) because one wishes to not work (although that is an entirely reasonable goal to target), but so that you can still live a decent life if you want to work but cannot find employment. I have read many trying anecdotes lately (both here and on Reddit) of engineers who are very capable who cannot succeed against the current hiring gauntlets. What good is a desire to contribute and perform meaningful work if you can't make it through the hiring circus? That is what you're derisking against. The labor market can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent. I am advocating for efforts to become radically solvent; not to do nothing, but to be able to do anything and at high level, have agency one does not have by default. Relevant recent thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35514464 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35514464
  - mjr00 3y ago
    This. "Bank extra and make sure you have savings" is way more reasonable than the "aim to retire by 35" FIRE cult. Out of a sample size of 4, 75% of the people I know who have done "FIRE" regret it. (The one who doesn't comes from a wealthy family who bought him a house right after university, so the sacrifices he made are a lot less.) Among the 3, the common theme was realizing they wasted the best years of their life solely focused on maximizing their money instead of enjoying their youth. Two became severely depressed alcoholics. The other went back to work as a FTE 6 months after "retiring". It's a lot more reasonable to have a goal of, say, having 2 years' of life expenses saved up in case you want to take a faux-sabbatical mid-career. If you're in tech in the US, this is really not hard if you aren't spending extremely lavishly.
    - charlie0 3y ago
      This. My plan is being financially independent enough to take several months of breaks in between jobs and having the time to look for environments I really enjoy working in.
    - away271828 3y ago
      Even with the benefit of hindsight--and admittedly ignoring some periods when I wasn't really happy where I was--given a somewhat arbitrarily large amount of money in the bank, maybe I'd have taken a couple sabbaticals but I'm not sure that, in retrospect, I'd really have been happy retiring much before my late 50s.
- binarymax 3y ago
  What’s FIRE? This is an impossible to find acronym.
  - upon_drumhead 3y ago
    Financially Independent Retired Early
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - patmorgan23 3y ago
    Financial Independence/Retire Early
  - felix318 3y ago
    Tip for searching acronyms: put the word “acronym” in the query. Works for google and gpt.
gabereiser 3y ago
This is the only true security. "You're on your own, asshole (TM)" has been the bank motto since 2008... Company security and longevity is oh so valued during interviews but only when you're coming into the club, not when you're leaving the club. Companies are like Tony Soprano, only loyal if they find you useful, and expect you to kill for them to get in. Won't hesitate to whack you. Metaphorically speaking.
- MichaelZuo 3y ago
  I don't get this sentiment. The number of large companies that deny their middle managers promotions while parachuting in outside executives is not that many.
JohnFen 3y ago
And for those who don't want to do more intensive things, even just following the "pay yourself first" principle goes a long way. For every dollar that comes in, take 10% and stick it somewhere that's hard for you to get your hands on it. Then forget that it exists. In less than a year, you'll have a year's worth of pay stacked up that way. Then keep doing it, forever.
- hiimkeks 3y ago
  In less than a year, you will have less than 10% of a year's worth of pay stacked up that way FTFY
  - JohnFen 3y ago
    How was my math wrong?
    - emptystation 3y ago
      If I earn $1000$/m, and I save $100/m - in a year, I'll maybe have $1200 saved up. 10% is so little for most you might as well spend it. Personal rant: I've been saving up 20-50% of my salary for the last 5 years for a downpayment, and then in the past year 18% inflation hit, interest rate doubled, food price inflation is in top 10 worst in Europe, property prices in increased by 50% in 4 years. My savings obviously cannot keep up with the economy. I'm glad I wasn't too stringy and spent some money to complete all necessary dental work in the past couple of years (dental is never covered by the insurance here), now I wouldn't be able to afford it. Oh, and there's also a war in my home country and my family lost almost all of their income (thank god they aren't displaced (yet)), now I'm awaiting a decision from my company whether I get the boot or not. Fun times. I wish I invested in mental health and therapy too, I would still end up broke as I am now but at least I'd have some resilience.

toomuchtodo 3y ago

This! FIRE as fast as you can so you’re not at the whim of this class of people (management class, broadly speaking). There is no security, no one is coming to save you except you. I speak from experience.

rwmj 3y ago
Rates of pay are so high in tech that I wonder if there will come a crisis when many people take early retirement. (Obviously I'm not saying this is a bad thing)
- aeyes 3y ago
  The amount of new grads and people coming in from other trades because they want a piece of the cake is high enough to keep supporting the flywheel. It would be interesting to see median age of engineers at tech companies, here it's definitely well under 35.
- away271828 3y ago
  Anecdotally, I see some people in their 40s or early 50s who made very serious money and worked really hard (founders, CEOs, and the like) end up doing some of the on-the-side type of work that gets thrown at people in that position (boards, "advisors," and the like). But I don't actually see a huge number of late career regular employees (even fairly well-compensated ones) retiring way early.
htag 3y ago
FIRE is obviously nice. I do think "bank the extra" is significantly more attainable, while providing a lot of extra security. 1. He doesn't have to change his spending habits at all. He just needs to direct the extra income into a saving account, maybe check on it one a month/quarter/year and move it someplace like CDs, Bonds, or ETFs. 2. His goal is to continue to work. Having a healthy savings account can keep you secure while looking for another job.
- toomuchtodo 3y ago
  I'm not advocating for FI (edit: removed RE) because one wishes to not work (although that is an entirely reasonable goal to target), but so that you can still live a decent life if you want to work but cannot find employment. I have read many trying anecdotes lately (both here and on Reddit) of engineers who are very capable who cannot succeed against the current hiring gauntlets. What good is a desire to contribute and perform meaningful work if you can't make it through the hiring circus? That is what you're derisking against. The labor market can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent. I am advocating for efforts to become radically solvent; not to do nothing, but to be able to do anything and at high level, have agency one does not have by default. Relevant recent thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35514464 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35514464
- mjr00 3y ago
  This. "Bank extra and make sure you have savings" is way more reasonable than the "aim to retire by 35" FIRE cult. Out of a sample size of 4, 75% of the people I know who have done "FIRE" regret it. (The one who doesn't comes from a wealthy family who bought him a house right after university, so the sacrifices he made are a lot less.) Among the 3, the common theme was realizing they wasted the best years of their life solely focused on maximizing their money instead of enjoying their youth. Two became severely depressed alcoholics. The other went back to work as a FTE 6 months after "retiring". It's a lot more reasonable to have a goal of, say, having 2 years' of life expenses saved up in case you want to take a faux-sabbatical mid-career. If you're in tech in the US, this is really not hard if you aren't spending extremely lavishly.
  - charlie0 3y ago
    This. My plan is being financially independent enough to take several months of breaks in between jobs and having the time to look for environments I really enjoy working in.
  - away271828 3y ago
    Even with the benefit of hindsight--and admittedly ignoring some periods when I wasn't really happy where I was--given a somewhat arbitrarily large amount of money in the bank, maybe I'd have taken a couple sabbaticals but I'm not sure that, in retrospect, I'd really have been happy retiring much before my late 50s.
binarymax 3y ago
What’s FIRE? This is an impossible to find acronym.
- upon_drumhead 3y ago
  Financially Independent Retired Early
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- patmorgan23 3y ago
  Financial Independence/Retire Early
- felix318 3y ago
  Tip for searching acronyms: put the word “acronym” in the query. Works for google and gpt.

gabereiser 3y ago

This is the only true security. "You're on your own, asshole (TM)" has been the bank motto since 2008... Company security and longevity is oh so valued during interviews but only when you're coming into the club, not when you're leaving the club. Companies are like Tony Soprano, only loyal if they find you useful, and expect you to kill for them to get in. Won't hesitate to whack you. Metaphorically speaking.

MichaelZuo 3y ago
I don't get this sentiment. The number of large companies that deny their middle managers promotions while parachuting in outside executives is not that many.

JohnFen 3y ago

And for those who don't want to do more intensive things, even just following the "pay yourself first" principle goes a long way. For every dollar that comes in, take 10% and stick it somewhere that's hard for you to get your hands on it. Then forget that it exists. In less than a year, you'll have a year's worth of pay stacked up that way. Then keep doing it, forever.

hiimkeks 3y ago
In less than a year, you will have less than 10% of a year's worth of pay stacked up that way FTFY
- JohnFen 3y ago
  How was my math wrong?
  - emptystation 3y ago
    If I earn $1000$/m, and I save $100/m - in a year, I'll maybe have $1200 saved up. 10% is so little for most you might as well spend it. Personal rant: I've been saving up 20-50% of my salary for the last 5 years for a downpayment, and then in the past year 18% inflation hit, interest rate doubled, food price inflation is in top 10 worst in Europe, property prices in increased by 50% in 4 years. My savings obviously cannot keep up with the economy. I'm glad I wasn't too stringy and spent some money to complete all necessary dental work in the past couple of years (dental is never covered by the insurance here), now I wouldn't be able to afford it. Oh, and there's also a war in my home country and my family lost almost all of their income (thank god they aren't displaced (yet)), now I'm awaiting a decision from my company whether I get the boot or not. Fun times. I wish I invested in mental health and therapy too, I would still end up broke as I am now but at least I'd have some resilience.