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Also regulation to automatically limit speed of cars - the biggest low hanging fruit when it comes to safety and quality of life in cities keeps getting delayed

Also regulation to automatically limit speed of cars - the biggest low hanging fruit when it comes to safety and quality of life in cities keeps getting delayed and crippled because of car manufacturers want to sell fast cars.

zarzavat 4y ago
Is it just car manufacturers who are not keen on the idea? I for one don’t want a computer that has zero situational awareness, interfering with the controls when I’m driving and responsible for the vehicle. The ability of computers to control the vehicle should be proportional to their perceptive abilities. No output without input.
- wkat4242 4y ago
  Computers don't have zero situational awareness anymore, look at what Tesla is doing. But even strict limiters without intelligence are commonplace, here in the EU most trucks are fitted with them. Which can be annoying because it causes trucks to overtake each other ridiculously slowly sometimes. It's not something that causes major safety issues though.
  - pornel 4y ago
    Tesla's FSD, despite a decade of promises, is still not ready. Most (non-Tesla) cars have some speed limit display, either based on vision or maps, and it works ~90% of the time. It's okay as a FYI, but not reliable enough to be more than that. Before we can mandate software to observe the limits, we need proper software-readable signage. Sometimes signs are placed between two roads running in parallel, and apply to the other one. Humans understand that subtlety in sign position, but computer vision doesn't. Signs can also be obscured by trees, etc. My car's GPS-based speed detection doesn't understand height, so on crossings with bridges/overpasses it picks one at random. When I drive on a highway it can briefly flip to a speed limit of some ramp, and I wouldn't want this to cause phantom breaking.
    - bluecalm 3y ago
      It's very easy to make it reliable even if limited. For example detecting if you're within city borders and limiting your speed to 50km/h would improve things immensely. Add to that a complete no-brainer of limiting the top speed to say 140km/h. It still wouldn't be perfect but we don't need perfect. We need a way to stop the terror and danger speeding drivers impose on others. That we can pass e-bike speed limit in short time without even asking people if they want it while we can't limit cars, which actually cause hundred of thousands of deaths and injuries per year tells you all you need to know about the state of things.
- andylynch 4y ago
  If you’re concerned about the EU speed limiting directive it’s so permissive you can override the control just by using your gas pedal. (No comment on the how this is different to e-bike and scooters where hard limits are mandated despite the much lower speeds and masses involved)
- moritzwarhier 4y ago
  The situational awareness of humans seems to be the problem here: It's either "let's make everyone look at me by making a lot of noise" or "nobody's looking, I'll ignore the speed limit" Not arguing particulary in favor of AI here. I just happen to hate the perception of private vehicles as extension of one's individual freedom. The restrictions imposed on e.g. pedestrians caused by this thinking tend to be ignored. Public transit for everyone, cars for goods, services and emergencies, that would be my utopia. I know this is a fringe position.
- bluecalm 3y ago
  When it comes to limiting speed zero situational awareness is great. Somehow we all accept it for light benign vehicles like e-bikes and e-scooters - 1500+kg metal boxes with limited visibility though? - can't have that!

zarzavat 4y ago

Is it just car manufacturers who are not keen on the idea? I for one don’t want a computer that has zero situational awareness, interfering with the controls when I’m driving and responsible for the vehicle. The ability of computers to control the vehicle should be proportional to their perceptive abilities. No output without input.

wkat4242 4y ago
Computers don't have zero situational awareness anymore, look at what Tesla is doing. But even strict limiters without intelligence are commonplace, here in the EU most trucks are fitted with them. Which can be annoying because it causes trucks to overtake each other ridiculously slowly sometimes. It's not something that causes major safety issues though.
- pornel 4y ago
  Tesla's FSD, despite a decade of promises, is still not ready. Most (non-Tesla) cars have some speed limit display, either based on vision or maps, and it works ~90% of the time. It's okay as a FYI, but not reliable enough to be more than that. Before we can mandate software to observe the limits, we need proper software-readable signage. Sometimes signs are placed between two roads running in parallel, and apply to the other one. Humans understand that subtlety in sign position, but computer vision doesn't. Signs can also be obscured by trees, etc. My car's GPS-based speed detection doesn't understand height, so on crossings with bridges/overpasses it picks one at random. When I drive on a highway it can briefly flip to a speed limit of some ramp, and I wouldn't want this to cause phantom breaking.
  - bluecalm 3y ago
    It's very easy to make it reliable even if limited. For example detecting if you're within city borders and limiting your speed to 50km/h would improve things immensely. Add to that a complete no-brainer of limiting the top speed to say 140km/h. It still wouldn't be perfect but we don't need perfect. We need a way to stop the terror and danger speeding drivers impose on others. That we can pass e-bike speed limit in short time without even asking people if they want it while we can't limit cars, which actually cause hundred of thousands of deaths and injuries per year tells you all you need to know about the state of things.
andylynch 4y ago
If you’re concerned about the EU speed limiting directive it’s so permissive you can override the control just by using your gas pedal. (No comment on the how this is different to e-bike and scooters where hard limits are mandated despite the much lower speeds and masses involved)
moritzwarhier 4y ago
The situational awareness of humans seems to be the problem here: It's either "let's make everyone look at me by making a lot of noise" or "nobody's looking, I'll ignore the speed limit" Not arguing particulary in favor of AI here. I just happen to hate the perception of private vehicles as extension of one's individual freedom. The restrictions imposed on e.g. pedestrians caused by this thinking tend to be ignored. Public transit for everyone, cars for goods, services and emergencies, that would be my utopia. I know this is a fringe position.
bluecalm 3y ago
When it comes to limiting speed zero situational awareness is great. Somehow we all accept it for light benign vehicles like e-bikes and e-scooters - 1500+kg metal boxes with limited visibility though? - can't have that!