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As a Clojure programmer, I'm so happy that I'm getting all these improvements over many years. It's fashionable to complain about Java — but I don't use Java, a
by jwr 4y ago
As a Clojure programmer, I'm so happy that I'm getting all these improvements over many years. It's fashionable to complain about Java — but I don't use Java, and yet I benefit from all the fantastic work that is being done on the JVM.
- pjmlp 4y agoThat is the positive attitude, it always irks me when guest language comunities bash the platform that make their language even possible in first place. Everything sucks, but then they gladly take the platform, the ecosystem of libraries, debuggers and what not from the host platform.
- nickpeterson 4y agoIt depends, some languages have more to complain about than others. I’d argue F# on .net basically had to spend years treading water while Microsoft’s various teams figured out .net core/framework. The community feels like it lost a lot of inertia it used to have.
- NeutralForest 4y agoI feel that the latest JVM developments have really been aimed at the developers: easier syntax, nice threading support, fast garbage collector, etc. On the GUI side I know that JavaFX has also been pushing for more features and more performance to become competitive again.
- millerm 4y agoI say this all the time to people that say they want to use Node because they hate Java. There are so many languages that you can execute on the JVM. It’s almost unfortunate that it’s still called the JVM. It think the JVM needs a re-branding. Even if they just change the meaning of the J. I suppose that is what GraalVM is doing, but it’s an awful name and its purpose isn’t being conveyed well. The JDK should just switch to this VM and get rid of the name JVM. These are just my opinions.
- viraptor 4y agoJVM still has some limitations. https://stackoverflow.com/a/2682962/31667 https://stackoverflow.com/a/2682962/31667 Those actually influence either the design or the performance of the higher level language.
- trollied 4y agoThat post is 13 years old.
- phoe-krk 4y agoThe answer is 6 years old if we count the last modification time.
- bierjunge 4y agoAnd the last modification was only wording, with the same 13 years old content. [0] Always check what changed in SO posts, because this practice is very common. [0] https://stackoverflow.com/posts/2682962/revisions https://stackoverflow.com/posts/2682962/revisions
- phoe-krk 4y agoTIL, thank you!
- viraptor 4y agoYes it is - that doesn't make it wrong. The type erasure is still a JVM limitation.
- kaba0 4y agoThe same way is it for Haskell?
- pohl 4y agoI haven't been in that world since Java 7. What's the startup time on the JVM these days? It used to be a pretty hefty cost, and it didn't seem like it would get much better because of the way class loading was done.
- bee_rider 4y agoIs it still fashionable to bash Java? I remember the bashing of Java around 15 years or so ago, IMO justifiably because it could be slow to the point of making programs unpleasant to run. But nowadays… I mean Java can be a bit verbose, but other than that it seems like a fine language and the JVM is pretty great. Plus we don’t have annoying Java applets in our browsers anymore (perhaps one of the main sources of legitimate Java hatred, and something so bad that we’ve intentionally all forgotten about it).
- thechao 4y agoNow I'm going to go look and see where Jython's parity is to Python. EDIT: Only supports 2.7(x); that makes me sad.
- vips7L 4y agoGraal Python is compatible with python 3.x https://www.graalvm.org/python/ https://www.graalvm.org/python/
- re-thc 4y ago> Is it still fashionable to bash Java? People do it more now rather than less. Nowadays people run on hype and need a scapegoat.
- jpe90 4y agoThe excellent backwards compatibility rocks too. This weekend I wanted a library to diagram the class hierarchy of a Java project I put together. I found a 10 year old library that worked with no issues, I was done in minutes even though I rarely use Java or Clojure so my familiarity is low. There are very few languages where I would have a similar experience. https://github.com/stuartsierra/class-diagram https://github.com/stuartsierra/class-diagram
- kaba0 4y agoI had a similar experience with some random jar visualizing some algorithm which I downloaded from a professor’s website, which just worked.