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But those channels you listed are not educational, theyre "educational" e.g. you may learn some factoids about physics are learn about some cool experience but

But those channels you listed are not educational, theyre "educational" e.g. you may learn some factoids about physics are learn about some cool experience but in no way will they impart to you a deep understanding of any subject. Those sorts of edutainment style videos are not ever going to compete against say, a college degree. Now there is excellent serious educational material on youtube, stuff like khan academy, etc, but thats not what people are watching for leisure. If youre going to learn something useful, it is going to be difficult - e.g. it requires work on the part of the watcher. Gen z isnt just learning physics by idly watching veritasium videos.

com2kid 3y ago
> but in no way will they impart to you a deep understanding of any subject. Technology Connections will provide deep understanding of the refrigeration cycle, how different types of gas lamps work, how heat pumps work, and how developing film works. And those are just the video series I can remember.
ramraj07 3y ago
When I was a kid I learned everything I could by watching discovery channel which in the late 90s was the equivalent of what you get from the Popsci YouTube channels. This was good enough for me to write a space settlement design proposal, submit it to NASA and win. The “surface level” stuff is more than sufficient to pique your interest and get a good understanding. Combine this with good schooling and you’re on path to be a great scientist leave alone a well learned person.
karmelapple 3y ago
The person you’re replying to has kids in the single digits for age. Thinking about a college-level education for a 7 and 9 year old seems fairly unrealistic, and learning “educational” topics like you point out at that age is perfectly fine. You’re still learning addition and subtraction at age 7.
amscanne 3y ago
I don't think any of those channels are trying to replace an actual science education in any given subject. But they are certainly imparting a lot more than physics "factoids", and some are probably closer to intro lectures on specific topics intended for a general audience (done by a talented and engaging educator). It's not directly equipping the audience with professional skills for a scientific career, but it is generating interest in science, and indirectly encouraging people to expand their own STEM skills and knowledge. I'm sure that dozens (hundreds? thousnads?) of people have gone into mathematics at least in part due to an interest generated by the likes of numberphile, etc.
- nonethewiser 3y ago
  But the original comment said Youtube can replace school. > They can literally leave school and already be professionally competent. I think we’ll see them leapfrogging millennials on the career ladder because they had a youth where they could spend their entire time learning literally everything there is to know about their passion for free.
  - pmx 3y ago
    I think you misunderstood the comment. It could be better written as "By the time they leave school they can already be..."
    - DontchaKnowit 3y ago
      Right but hats the point im making - unless a kid is very strictly trying to actually learn a particular subject, no amount of edutainment is gonna give them any kind of professionally applicable skills. Now if a kid watching videos that are long form treatments on specific subjects and are following allong with a pen and paper doing practice problems, sure, thats a case where youtube might give you some serious skills, but that is a tiny fraction of kids and those same kids would have been doing the same shit with textbooks at their local library. Youtube is waaaaaaaay closer to being purely a distraction than to being something we could consider "educational" in any serious sense.
echelon 3y ago
> But those channels you listed are not educational, theyre "educational" e.g. you may learn some factoids about physics are learn about some cool experience but in no way will they impart to you a deep understanding of any subject. And that's exactly what kids need. They can wait to hone rigor and scientific intuition. As long as the interest takes root, they'll find their way. Veritasium is cut in the same cloth as Bill Nye (and Mr. Wizard before him), and we anecdotally know Bill inspired folks to pursue STEM.
- nonethewiser 3y ago
  Well that’s fine, but it falls short of the original claim that YT can replace a college education. > They can literally leave school and already be professionally competent. I think we’ll see them leapfrogging millennials on the career ladder because they had a youth where they could spend their entire time learning literally everything there is to know about their passion for free. I think he’s right in theory, but in reality kids just watch what’s entertaining.
  - AlecSchueler 3y ago
    They said children could leave school with a college level foundation, not that they'd be college level at the age of seven.
    - nonethewiser 3y ago
      > They said children could leave school with a college level foundation And is that because of infotainment?
ikurei 3y ago
> Those sorts of edutainment style videos are not ever going to compete against say, a college degree. They're totally different things, obviously... > you may learn some factoids about physics are learn about some cool experience but in no way will they impart to you a deep understanding of any subject. Those sorts of edutainment style videos are not ever going to compete against say, a college degree. I disagree with this sentiment, even though what you say is technically true. "Deep understanding" can't be imparted, not in school, not in a video. Here we all know plenty of engineers with degrees with no deep understanding of the programming languages they use daily. Deep understanding can't be imparted, you have to go and grab it by yourself. "If you want people to build a ship, don't talk to them about sails and wood and tar, tell them about freedom." Those edutainment videos have sparked my curiosity and help me appreciate things about the world around me I wouldn't have noticed. For really deep understanding, I may have to let this curiosity propel me into a book. Going into a book about urban design after a "Not just bike videos" with curiosity and an intuitive although shallow understanding, is much better than sitting through 50 minutes of a boring and bored professor drawling about something, which was a lot of my college experience. You are right that Youtube can't replace college, or making experiments yourself, or reading a book. It's a different thing. But, specially for kids, this is how education should start, and it may be way more fundamental than the other pieces. You are also right that if kids, or anyone, stays on the level of watching Youtube videos, not much is gained. But still, that edutainment can be a great part of education.
- DontchaKnowit 3y ago
  I agree with you entirely, but my post was in response to someone saying that a kid could finish high school with professional skills due to youtube... thats just not realistic. Sure it might pique their interest but so can books, television, talking with adults, school, etc. So I still do not think youtube is a particularly effective "professional skills education" tool
  - rcarr 3y ago
    It 100% is realistic dependent on the field. If you combine what you learned from YouTube with personal projects you can be professionally proficient in: - An instrument/songwriting - Music Production - Video Production - DevOps - Network Administration - Any kind of programming (Frontend, Backend, Game Development, Assembly, whatever you can think of) - Vehicle Mechanics - Electronics Repair - Maths - Hair and Makeup - Costume/Fashion Design - Fitness/sport coaching - Graphic Design - Bookkeeping - CAD Design - Carpentry - Plumbing And these are just the ones off the top of my head. They might need to get the piece of paper in order to legally practice, but the kids out there who like delving into how things work (and they do exist) could absolutely have all the knowledge they needed to work in a professional capacity and often do. Proficiency and reputation trump certificates.
rcarr 3y ago
> you may learn some factoids about physics are MIT lectures "factoids" now? https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=mit+opencourseware+physics https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=mit+opencoursew... > Gen z isnt just learning physics by idly watching veritasium videos. This is a massive generalisation. Sure, I'd probably agree with you that a large cohort are watching a lot of trash. But there's a sizeable amount who are putting the work. And I imagine that the percentage of those putting in the work probably increases the closer they are to the poverty line growing up.

com2kid 3y ago

> but in no way will they impart to you a deep understanding of any subject. Technology Connections will provide deep understanding of the refrigeration cycle, how different types of gas lamps work, how heat pumps work, and how developing film works. And those are just the video series I can remember.

ramraj07 3y ago

When I was a kid I learned everything I could by watching discovery channel which in the late 90s was the equivalent of what you get from the Popsci YouTube channels. This was good enough for me to write a space settlement design proposal, submit it to NASA and win. The “surface level” stuff is more than sufficient to pique your interest and get a good understanding. Combine this with good schooling and you’re on path to be a great scientist leave alone a well learned person.

karmelapple 3y ago

The person you’re replying to has kids in the single digits for age. Thinking about a college-level education for a 7 and 9 year old seems fairly unrealistic, and learning “educational” topics like you point out at that age is perfectly fine. You’re still learning addition and subtraction at age 7.

amscanne 3y ago

I don't think any of those channels are trying to replace an actual science education in any given subject. But they are certainly imparting a lot more than physics "factoids", and some are probably closer to intro lectures on specific topics intended for a general audience (done by a talented and engaging educator). It's not directly equipping the audience with professional skills for a scientific career, but it is generating interest in science, and indirectly encouraging people to expand their own STEM skills and knowledge. I'm sure that dozens (hundreds? thousnads?) of people have gone into mathematics at least in part due to an interest generated by the likes of numberphile, etc.

nonethewiser 3y ago
But the original comment said Youtube can replace school. > They can literally leave school and already be professionally competent. I think we’ll see them leapfrogging millennials on the career ladder because they had a youth where they could spend their entire time learning literally everything there is to know about their passion for free.
- pmx 3y ago
  I think you misunderstood the comment. It could be better written as "By the time they leave school they can already be..."
  - DontchaKnowit 3y ago
    Right but hats the point im making - unless a kid is very strictly trying to actually learn a particular subject, no amount of edutainment is gonna give them any kind of professionally applicable skills. Now if a kid watching videos that are long form treatments on specific subjects and are following allong with a pen and paper doing practice problems, sure, thats a case where youtube might give you some serious skills, but that is a tiny fraction of kids and those same kids would have been doing the same shit with textbooks at their local library. Youtube is waaaaaaaay closer to being purely a distraction than to being something we could consider "educational" in any serious sense.

echelon 3y ago

> But those channels you listed are not educational, theyre "educational" e.g. you may learn some factoids about physics are learn about some cool experience but in no way will they impart to you a deep understanding of any subject. And that's exactly what kids need. They can wait to hone rigor and scientific intuition. As long as the interest takes root, they'll find their way. Veritasium is cut in the same cloth as Bill Nye (and Mr. Wizard before him), and we anecdotally know Bill inspired folks to pursue STEM.

nonethewiser 3y ago
Well that’s fine, but it falls short of the original claim that YT can replace a college education. > They can literally leave school and already be professionally competent. I think we’ll see them leapfrogging millennials on the career ladder because they had a youth where they could spend their entire time learning literally everything there is to know about their passion for free. I think he’s right in theory, but in reality kids just watch what’s entertaining.
- AlecSchueler 3y ago
  They said children could leave school with a college level foundation, not that they'd be college level at the age of seven.
  - nonethewiser 3y ago
    > They said children could leave school with a college level foundation And is that because of infotainment?

ikurei 3y ago

> Those sorts of edutainment style videos are not ever going to compete against say, a college degree. They're totally different things, obviously... > you may learn some factoids about physics are learn about some cool experience but in no way will they impart to you a deep understanding of any subject. Those sorts of edutainment style videos are not ever going to compete against say, a college degree. I disagree with this sentiment, even though what you say is technically true. "Deep understanding" can't be imparted, not in school, not in a video. Here we all know plenty of engineers with degrees with no deep understanding of the programming languages they use daily. Deep understanding can't be imparted, you have to go and grab it by yourself. "If you want people to build a ship, don't talk to them about sails and wood and tar, tell them about freedom." Those edutainment videos have sparked my curiosity and help me appreciate things about the world around me I wouldn't have noticed. For really deep understanding, I may have to let this curiosity propel me into a book. Going into a book about urban design after a "Not just bike videos" with curiosity and an intuitive although shallow understanding, is much better than sitting through 50 minutes of a boring and bored professor drawling about something, which was a lot of my college experience. You are right that Youtube can't replace college, or making experiments yourself, or reading a book. It's a different thing. But, specially for kids, this is how education should start, and it may be way more fundamental than the other pieces. You are also right that if kids, or anyone, stays on the level of watching Youtube videos, not much is gained. But still, that edutainment can be a great part of education.

DontchaKnowit 3y ago
I agree with you entirely, but my post was in response to someone saying that a kid could finish high school with professional skills due to youtube... thats just not realistic. Sure it might pique their interest but so can books, television, talking with adults, school, etc. So I still do not think youtube is a particularly effective "professional skills education" tool
- rcarr 3y ago
  It 100% is realistic dependent on the field. If you combine what you learned from YouTube with personal projects you can be professionally proficient in: - An instrument/songwriting - Music Production - Video Production - DevOps - Network Administration - Any kind of programming (Frontend, Backend, Game Development, Assembly, whatever you can think of) - Vehicle Mechanics - Electronics Repair - Maths - Hair and Makeup - Costume/Fashion Design - Fitness/sport coaching - Graphic Design - Bookkeeping - CAD Design - Carpentry - Plumbing And these are just the ones off the top of my head. They might need to get the piece of paper in order to legally practice, but the kids out there who like delving into how things work (and they do exist) could absolutely have all the knowledge they needed to work in a professional capacity and often do. Proficiency and reputation trump certificates.

rcarr 3y ago

> you may learn some factoids about physics are MIT lectures "factoids" now? https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=mit+opencourseware+physics https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=mit+opencoursew... > Gen z isnt just learning physics by idly watching veritasium videos. This is a massive generalisation. Sure, I'd probably agree with you that a large cohort are watching a lot of trash. But there's a sizeable amount who are putting the work. And I imagine that the percentage of those putting in the work probably increases the closer they are to the poverty line growing up.