4 ms·

Isn’t it like $500 a year for an account?

by moneywoes 4y ago

Aeolun 4y ago
$100. Presumably they make more off of their scams befor the account is caught and banned.
- simondotau 4y ago
  Apple's argument is, which I'm somewhat sympathetic to, the $100 fee acts as an effective rate limiter. The payment is low enough that it's not a significant barrier to anyone, except perhaps the most threadbare of hobbyists. But it's enough to make it utterly impractical for a scam developer to submit a thousand apps through a thousand developer accounts paid for with a thousand different credit cards.
  - lapcat 4y ago
    > Apple's argument is Says who? Not Apple itself. > The payment is low enough that it's not a significant barrier to anyone It's a barrier to many open source projects. > But it's enough to make it utterly impractical for a scam developer to submit a thousand apps through a thousand developer accounts paid for with a thousand different credit cards. You can submit many apps under one account. You don't need 1000 accounts for 1000 apps. It's strange to argue that it acts as an effective rate limiter when one of the points of the linked article is that these scam developers have multiple Apple Developer accounts.
    - simondotau 4y ago
      > Not Apple itself. Read the transcripts of Epic vs Apple. > You can submit many apps under one account. You don't need 1000 accounts for 1000 apps. You do if you don’t want Apple to be able to delete all your apps with one click. Yes, scammers have multiple accounts. It’s a lot more tractable for Apple to deal with a handful of accounts than thousands.
      - lapcat 4y ago
        > Read the transcripts of Epic vs Apple. I have. > You do if you don’t want Apple to be able to delete all your apps with one click. False dichotomy. Two accounts accomplishes that just as well. It's a lot easier and cheaper to create a few accounts whenever necessary rather than prematurely creating 1000 accounts just to avoid a remote possibility. Besides, I'm not sure that these scammers have literally 1000 apps (though I don't rule out that possibility). > It’s a lot more tractable for Apple to deal with a handful of accounts than thousands. And yet Apple doesn't deal with it, as the linked article demonstrates.
        simondotau 4y ago
        I can’t believe I would have to explain the value of having hundreds of unconnected accounts if the goal of a spammer is to have their scam persist for as long as possible. It is a weird line of argument to say that because Apple doesn’t do everything perfectly, they should not implement any mitigation strategies at all. Like seriously, I have no idea what you were trying to say, or what do you think Apple should do, or what you want to convince me of. [Dictated, not read]
        lapcat 4y ago
        > I can’t believe I would have to explain the value of having hundreds of unconnected accounts if the goal of a spammer is to have their scam persist for as long as possible. You don't have to explain the value of it, just as you don't have to explain the value of having a Lamborghini. Of course it would be very nice to have a Lamborghini. But it's not necessary to buy a Lamborghini if it's too expensive. Neither is it necessary to buy 1000 Apple Developer accounts if it's too expensive. That ought to be a simple concept to understand. The price of a Lamborghini isn't a "limiter", it's a luxury. > It is a weird line of argument to say that because Apple doesn’t do everything perfectly, they should not implement any mitigation strategies at all. Good thing I didn't argue that. > Like seriously, I have no idea what you were trying to say, or what do you think Apple should do, or what you want to convince me of. I'm not trying to convince you of anything. But I am disputing your claim, "Apple's argument is, which I'm somewhat sympathetic to, the $100 fee acts as an effective rate limiter."
  - heavyset_go 4y ago
    $100 is nothing to organized scammers. These scammers make enough money that they can hire their own developers and buy layers of mules to get their apps on the App Store. The vast majority of these scams don't rely on custom apps, though. They rely on apps that are used for legitimate reasons, but can also give scammers access to computers, like TeamViewer or AnyDesk. The App Store model does nothing to stop these scams.
    - simondotau 4y ago
      You misunderstand, it’s not the $100 which thwarts scammers, it’s the prospect of having to find 1,000 distinct credit cards and spend $100,000 to programmatically spin up 1,000 developer accounts. If accounts were free, scammers could abuse this process en masse.

Isn’t it like $500 a year for an account?

Aeolun 4y ago

$100. Presumably they make more off of their scams befor the account is caught and banned.

simondotau 4y ago
Apple's argument is, which I'm somewhat sympathetic to, the $100 fee acts as an effective rate limiter. The payment is low enough that it's not a significant barrier to anyone, except perhaps the most threadbare of hobbyists. But it's enough to make it utterly impractical for a scam developer to submit a thousand apps through a thousand developer accounts paid for with a thousand different credit cards.
- lapcat 4y ago
  > Apple's argument is Says who? Not Apple itself. > The payment is low enough that it's not a significant barrier to anyone It's a barrier to many open source projects. > But it's enough to make it utterly impractical for a scam developer to submit a thousand apps through a thousand developer accounts paid for with a thousand different credit cards. You can submit many apps under one account. You don't need 1000 accounts for 1000 apps. It's strange to argue that it acts as an effective rate limiter when one of the points of the linked article is that these scam developers have multiple Apple Developer accounts.
  - simondotau 4y ago
    > Not Apple itself. Read the transcripts of Epic vs Apple. > You can submit many apps under one account. You don't need 1000 accounts for 1000 apps. You do if you don’t want Apple to be able to delete all your apps with one click. Yes, scammers have multiple accounts. It’s a lot more tractable for Apple to deal with a handful of accounts than thousands.
    - lapcat 4y ago
      > Read the transcripts of Epic vs Apple. I have. > You do if you don’t want Apple to be able to delete all your apps with one click. False dichotomy. Two accounts accomplishes that just as well. It's a lot easier and cheaper to create a few accounts whenever necessary rather than prematurely creating 1000 accounts just to avoid a remote possibility. Besides, I'm not sure that these scammers have literally 1000 apps (though I don't rule out that possibility). > It’s a lot more tractable for Apple to deal with a handful of accounts than thousands. And yet Apple doesn't deal with it, as the linked article demonstrates.
      - simondotau 4y ago
        I can’t believe I would have to explain the value of having hundreds of unconnected accounts if the goal of a spammer is to have their scam persist for as long as possible. It is a weird line of argument to say that because Apple doesn’t do everything perfectly, they should not implement any mitigation strategies at all. Like seriously, I have no idea what you were trying to say, or what do you think Apple should do, or what you want to convince me of. [Dictated, not read]
        lapcat 4y ago
        > I can’t believe I would have to explain the value of having hundreds of unconnected accounts if the goal of a spammer is to have their scam persist for as long as possible. You don't have to explain the value of it, just as you don't have to explain the value of having a Lamborghini. Of course it would be very nice to have a Lamborghini. But it's not necessary to buy a Lamborghini if it's too expensive. Neither is it necessary to buy 1000 Apple Developer accounts if it's too expensive. That ought to be a simple concept to understand. The price of a Lamborghini isn't a "limiter", it's a luxury. > It is a weird line of argument to say that because Apple doesn’t do everything perfectly, they should not implement any mitigation strategies at all. Good thing I didn't argue that. > Like seriously, I have no idea what you were trying to say, or what do you think Apple should do, or what you want to convince me of. I'm not trying to convince you of anything. But I am disputing your claim, "Apple's argument is, which I'm somewhat sympathetic to, the $100 fee acts as an effective rate limiter."
- heavyset_go 4y ago
  $100 is nothing to organized scammers. These scammers make enough money that they can hire their own developers and buy layers of mules to get their apps on the App Store. The vast majority of these scams don't rely on custom apps, though. They rely on apps that are used for legitimate reasons, but can also give scammers access to computers, like TeamViewer or AnyDesk. The App Store model does nothing to stop these scams.
  - simondotau 4y ago
    You misunderstand, it’s not the $100 which thwarts scammers, it’s the prospect of having to find 1,000 distinct credit cards and spend $100,000 to programmatically spin up 1,000 developer accounts. If accounts were free, scammers could abuse this process en masse.