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Ironically, the reason this tool is popular is because copyright prevents sharing of the datasets, and so all organizations like LAION can do is share URLs. The

Ironically, the reason this tool is popular is because copyright prevents sharing of the datasets, and so all organizations like LAION can do is share URLs. The fuss people are kicking up about scrapers is nothing compared to what they'd do if their copyrighted images were in a public ML dataset. If they (or legislators) just agreed that being part of training data was fair use, it would save a lot of servers a lot of bandwidth, and make it more convenient for people working with these datasets. It would be win/win, but there's a prisoners dilemma + misplaced greed that means it will never happen like that.

xg15 3y ago
> being part of training data was fair use It's not though, and never has been. Why should it be? Why should people contribute to making their own jobs obsolete and not even be compensated for it? > It would be win/win In what way would this be a win for artists?
- scarface74 3y ago
  > Why should people contribute to making their own jobs obsolete and not even be compensated for it? Haven’t technologist been saying for years about blue collar workers whose jobs have been made obsolete by technology that they should learn a new skill? Now that it’s hitting white collar workers, we are singing a different tune. And most of the time especially here on HN most people want an expansive definition of fair use as long as it is directed toward using work created by the big media companies.
  - Riverheart 3y ago
    Well there are only two types of collars, blue and white. Is there another shore to swim towards? Pretty typical human behavior.
- flangola7 3y ago
  All of OpenAI's data collection is done under fair use
- joshjob42 3y ago
  It’s fair use because training sets are useless except for creating a new thing which transforms the inputs into something new. It’s not merely selling photos that already exist or something. Stable Diffusion has only about enough bits in the weights to represent a single pixel out of each image in the training set.
  - Riverheart 3y ago
    “training sets are useless except for creating a new thing” So by useless you mean absolutely essential? Hard to argue the fair use thing but it was designed around humans not AI so just because it is fair use now does not mean it should or will be in the future.
    - heyoni 3y ago
      What is this? I keep seeing it.
      - Riverheart 3y ago
        What is what? If you mean distinguishing between AI and humans, it’s exactly what it sounds like. Fair use is a legal construct not a universal truth and subject to change like anything else. Just like how the US Founders writing the 2nd amendment with muskets in mind didn’t foresee full auto assault rifles in the hands of citizens. In hindsight, overly permissive law, all things not equal, hello gun control.
        heyoni 3y ago
        I think my HN client was bugging out because all your comments were displaying as ** Ignore me
        salawat 3y ago
        Automatic weapons were in fact in the public consciousness at the time of the founding, and the Gatling Gun existed and was used in the Civil War with no restrictions on who may own one. I dare say, this thought that people so well read they could architect a country were not aware of the State of the Art in weaponry is rather naive.

xg15 3y ago

> being part of training data was fair use It's not though, and never has been. Why should it be? Why should people contribute to making their own jobs obsolete and not even be compensated for it? > It would be win/win In what way would this be a win for artists?

scarface74 3y ago
> Why should people contribute to making their own jobs obsolete and not even be compensated for it? Haven’t technologist been saying for years about blue collar workers whose jobs have been made obsolete by technology that they should learn a new skill? Now that it’s hitting white collar workers, we are singing a different tune. And most of the time especially here on HN most people want an expansive definition of fair use as long as it is directed toward using work created by the big media companies.
- Riverheart 3y ago
  Well there are only two types of collars, blue and white. Is there another shore to swim towards? Pretty typical human behavior.
flangola7 3y ago
All of OpenAI's data collection is done under fair use
joshjob42 3y ago
It’s fair use because training sets are useless except for creating a new thing which transforms the inputs into something new. It’s not merely selling photos that already exist or something. Stable Diffusion has only about enough bits in the weights to represent a single pixel out of each image in the training set.
- Riverheart 3y ago
  “training sets are useless except for creating a new thing” So by useless you mean absolutely essential? Hard to argue the fair use thing but it was designed around humans not AI so just because it is fair use now does not mean it should or will be in the future.
  - heyoni 3y ago
    What is this? I keep seeing it.
    - Riverheart 3y ago
      What is what? If you mean distinguishing between AI and humans, it’s exactly what it sounds like. Fair use is a legal construct not a universal truth and subject to change like anything else. Just like how the US Founders writing the 2nd amendment with muskets in mind didn’t foresee full auto assault rifles in the hands of citizens. In hindsight, overly permissive law, all things not equal, hello gun control.
      - heyoni 3y ago
        I think my HN client was bugging out because all your comments were displaying as ** Ignore me
      - salawat 3y ago
        Automatic weapons were in fact in the public consciousness at the time of the founding, and the Gatling Gun existed and was used in the Civil War with no restrictions on who may own one. I dare say, this thought that people so well read they could architect a country were not aware of the State of the Art in weaponry is rather naive.