7 ms·

The norm is honestly that over 90% of the time, there are no issues. The thing is, when there is an issue, it’s at minimum a huge pain in the ass, and a comple

The norm is honestly that over 90% of the time, there are no issues. The thing is, when there is an issue, it’s at minimum a huge pain in the ass, and a complete nightmare at worst.

jackmott42 3y ago
I have been to electrify america stations twice. One had a broken charger at once of the two super fast stalls. The second time I had to wait in line because it was full, and then when I got in the card reader wasn't working. I had to install the app to be able to pay and get electricity. It was very stressful as we thought we might be totally effed. Compared to Tesla, where you just pull up and plug in. No app, no card reader. It just works. I've encountered 1 bad stall out of like 50 visits to superchargers, and since there are typically 10 to 20 stalls it wasn't a big deal.
- steveBK123 3y ago
  Yep, I switched from Tesla to BMW EV and am happy, but I don't road-trip much & can charge at home. The problem with EA (and CCS networks in US in general) - 10x more likely to encounter a broken stall, and that stall will be at a station with 1/2 to 1/3 the stalls of a typical Tesla station, and if the whole station is out.. the next station is probably 2-3x as far as the next Tesla station would have been. I find EA roadtrip planning to be more nerve wracking than Tesla was 5 years ago, and Tesla continues to build more stations at a rapid pace... so the lead is not closing.
- vel0city 3y ago
  > Compared to Tesla, where you just pull up and plug in. No app, no card reader. It just works. This has been 100% of my Electrify America experiences as well, along with a few other brands. Some have been able to take payment by tap to pay credit card as well without an app.
  - borski 3y ago
    Same. It just… works.
  - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
    Tesla lacks the need to tap card and you just plug in. Supposedly that tech is coming to CCS EVs someday.
    - vel0city 3y ago
      As I mentioned in my comment, this tech exists for CCS today already. That's my experience with many public CCS DCFC.
      - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
        What car? What provider? You mentioned taping a card, not just plugging in. Definitely not EA.
        vel0city 3y ago
        Mach E. I've had plug and charge work every time I've used an EA charger on the first try. I've never failed to charge on an EA charger nor have I ever had to use an app to pay for it. Most EVgo charging experiences have been plug and charge. I did have one experience a while ago that needed an app but that was one of their older chargers which even still had their old logo on it. All their newer chargers have successfully done plug and charge. I've had tap to pay work with Google Wallet at Road Ranger (Freewire) and Francis Energy chargers. > You mentioned taping a card, not just plugging in That's why I included the language "as well". I've used a number of different brands of EV chargers. Out of all the times I've used a public DCFC, I had to use an app maybe 10% of the time. And of that, it was only earlier into my ownership, I haven't had to use an app in about a year. Every charger I've used in the last year has been either plug and charge or supported credit cards directly.
        seanmcdirmid 3y ago
iknowstuff 3y ago
If you have better data than them feel free to post it. Only 50% of attempts to charge at EA succeed without a problem according to their chart.
- comte7092 3y ago
  I’m talking about personal experience. Is my experience universal? Of course not. However, the data on that page has massive sampling bias.
  - borski 3y ago
    Precisely this.
steveBK123 3y ago
Right, and to those who might think "hey 90% isn't so bad". Imagine a light switch or sink faucet working "90% of the time". Or the gas pump working "90% of the time", knowing that there are no other pumps in a 30 mile radius.
- borski 3y ago
  So charge before you are down to 30 miles?
  - prepend 3y ago
    The point is that 90% is not good when the alternative is 99.99%. For gas stations, 99.99% of the time the pump works. So much so that I don’t even consider that it doesn’t work. That’s the level of reliability that I expect.
    - vel0city 3y ago
      I see plastic bags over pump handles way more than 0.01% of the time. In fact over the last year I've had more experiences with gas pumps being broken than EV dispensers not working.
      - HeyLaughingBoy 3y ago
        Put a different way, although I have seen plastic bags over pump handles, I have never pulled into a gas station and not been able to fill up.
        vel0city 3y ago
        I have on several occasions. Power outages, being out of gas, having to clean tanks because of a bad batch of gas, a gas station I used to go to on road trips going out of business, credit card processing issues, getting tired of lines so I go elsewhere, and just being closed for the night are all failure modes of gas pumps I've personally experienced. Some of these way more than once. I haven't personally experienced any failures to get a charge on CCS chargers though. I do agree if the power can't run the pumps it won't run the chargers either, but there hasn't been a similar major power outage since I got an EV and tried to charge on a public charger. That reminds me, I've experienced bad gas require me to make repairs on my cars. I've never personally had an EVSE break my car, but I do contend it could happen.

The norm is honestly that over 90% of the time, there are no issues. The thing is, when there is an issue, it’s at minimum a huge pain in the ass, and a complete nightmare at worst.

jackmott42 3y ago

I have been to electrify america stations twice. One had a broken charger at once of the two super fast stalls. The second time I had to wait in line because it was full, and then when I got in the card reader wasn't working. I had to install the app to be able to pay and get electricity. It was very stressful as we thought we might be totally effed. Compared to Tesla, where you just pull up and plug in. No app, no card reader. It just works. I've encountered 1 bad stall out of like 50 visits to superchargers, and since there are typically 10 to 20 stalls it wasn't a big deal.

steveBK123 3y ago
Yep, I switched from Tesla to BMW EV and am happy, but I don't road-trip much & can charge at home. The problem with EA (and CCS networks in US in general) - 10x more likely to encounter a broken stall, and that stall will be at a station with 1/2 to 1/3 the stalls of a typical Tesla station, and if the whole station is out.. the next station is probably 2-3x as far as the next Tesla station would have been. I find EA roadtrip planning to be more nerve wracking than Tesla was 5 years ago, and Tesla continues to build more stations at a rapid pace... so the lead is not closing.
vel0city 3y ago
> Compared to Tesla, where you just pull up and plug in. No app, no card reader. It just works. This has been 100% of my Electrify America experiences as well, along with a few other brands. Some have been able to take payment by tap to pay credit card as well without an app.
- borski 3y ago
  Same. It just… works.
- seanmcdirmid 3y ago
  Tesla lacks the need to tap card and you just plug in. Supposedly that tech is coming to CCS EVs someday.
  - vel0city 3y ago
    As I mentioned in my comment, this tech exists for CCS today already. That's my experience with many public CCS DCFC.
    - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
      What car? What provider? You mentioned taping a card, not just plugging in. Definitely not EA.
      - vel0city 3y ago
        Mach E. I've had plug and charge work every time I've used an EA charger on the first try. I've never failed to charge on an EA charger nor have I ever had to use an app to pay for it. Most EVgo charging experiences have been plug and charge. I did have one experience a while ago that needed an app but that was one of their older chargers which even still had their old logo on it. All their newer chargers have successfully done plug and charge. I've had tap to pay work with Google Wallet at Road Ranger (Freewire) and Francis Energy chargers. > You mentioned taping a card, not just plugging in That's why I included the language "as well". I've used a number of different brands of EV chargers. Out of all the times I've used a public DCFC, I had to use an app maybe 10% of the time. And of that, it was only earlier into my ownership, I haven't had to use an app in about a year. Every charger I've used in the last year has been either plug and charge or supported credit cards directly.
        seanmcdirmid 3y ago

iknowstuff 3y ago

If you have better data than them feel free to post it. Only 50% of attempts to charge at EA succeed without a problem according to their chart.

comte7092 3y ago
I’m talking about personal experience. Is my experience universal? Of course not. However, the data on that page has massive sampling bias.
- borski 3y ago
  Precisely this.

steveBK123 3y ago

Right, and to those who might think "hey 90% isn't so bad". Imagine a light switch or sink faucet working "90% of the time". Or the gas pump working "90% of the time", knowing that there are no other pumps in a 30 mile radius.

borski 3y ago
So charge before you are down to 30 miles?
- prepend 3y ago
  The point is that 90% is not good when the alternative is 99.99%. For gas stations, 99.99% of the time the pump works. So much so that I don’t even consider that it doesn’t work. That’s the level of reliability that I expect.
  - vel0city 3y ago
    I see plastic bags over pump handles way more than 0.01% of the time. In fact over the last year I've had more experiences with gas pumps being broken than EV dispensers not working.
    - HeyLaughingBoy 3y ago
      Put a different way, although I have seen plastic bags over pump handles, I have never pulled into a gas station and not been able to fill up.
      - vel0city 3y ago
        I have on several occasions. Power outages, being out of gas, having to clean tanks because of a bad batch of gas, a gas station I used to go to on road trips going out of business, credit card processing issues, getting tired of lines so I go elsewhere, and just being closed for the night are all failure modes of gas pumps I've personally experienced. Some of these way more than once. I haven't personally experienced any failures to get a charge on CCS chargers though. I do agree if the power can't run the pumps it won't run the chargers either, but there hasn't been a similar major power outage since I got an EV and tried to charge on a public charger. That reminds me, I've experienced bad gas require me to make repairs on my cars. I've never personally had an EVSE break my car, but I do contend it could happen.