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I think that there are far more spam/scam apps rejected than real apps, but we don’t read about their stories.

lapcat 4y ago
The problem is that the scammers don't care, and they don't give up. They just keep throwing shit at the wall to see what sticks. As the article explained, these scam developers have multiple Apple developer accounts. Even if Apple bans one account, they'll just open another. And they're often in countries where the US legal system can't touch them, so there's nothing to be lost from getting caught. Legitimate developers won't go to such (unethical, possible illegal) lengths. Rejection is a much bigger deal to those who spent a lot of time and care on an app, and hope to make a good name for themselves as developers.
- moneywoes 4y ago
  Isn’t it like $500 a year for an account?
  - Aeolun 4y ago
    $100. Presumably they make more off of their scams befor the account is caught and banned.
    - simondotau 4y ago
      Apple's argument is, which I'm somewhat sympathetic to, the $100 fee acts as an effective rate limiter. The payment is low enough that it's not a significant barrier to anyone, except perhaps the most threadbare of hobbyists. But it's enough to make it utterly impractical for a scam developer to submit a thousand apps through a thousand developer accounts paid for with a thousand different credit cards.
      - lapcat 4y ago
        > Apple's argument is Says who? Not Apple itself. > The payment is low enough that it's not a significant barrier to anyone It's a barrier to many open source projects. > But it's enough to make it utterly impractical for a scam developer to submit a thousand apps through a thousand developer accounts paid for with a thousand different credit cards. You can submit many apps under one account. You don't need 1000 accounts for 1000 apps. It's strange to argue that it acts as an effective rate limiter when one of the points of the linked article is that these scam developers have multiple Apple Developer accounts.
        simondotau 4y ago
        > Not Apple itself. Read the transcripts of Epic vs Apple. > You can submit many apps under one account. You don't need 1000 accounts for 1000 apps. You do if you don’t want Apple to be able to delete all your apps with one click. Yes, scammers have multiple accounts. It’s a lot more tractable for Apple to deal with a handful of accounts than thousands.
        lapcat 4y ago
        > Read the transcripts of Epic vs Apple. I have. > You do if you don’t want Apple to be able to delete all your apps with one click. False dichotomy. Two accounts accomplishes that just as well. It's a lot easier and cheaper to create a few accounts whenever necessary rather than prematurely creating 1000 accounts just to avoid a remote possibility. Besides, I'm not sure that these scammers have literally 1000 apps (though I don't rule out that possibility). > It’s a lot more tractable for Apple to deal with a handful of accounts than thousands. And yet Apple doesn't deal with it, as the linked article demonstrates.
        simondotau 4y ago
        I can’t believe I would have to explain the value of having hundreds of unconnected accounts if the goal of a spammer is to have their scam persist for as long as possible. It is a weird line of argument to say that because Apple doesn’t do everything perfectly, they should not implement any mitigation strategies at all. Like seriously, I have no idea what you were trying to say, or what do you think Apple should do, or what you want to convince me of. [Dictated, not read]
makeitdouble 4y ago
People care about false positives. Even if it was 0.X% of false positives, if those .X% include apps from Panic and Videolan we won't shrug it off as some cost to pay for the process.

The problem is that the scammers don't care, and they don't give up. They just keep throwing shit at the wall to see what sticks. As the article explained, these scam developers have multiple Apple developer accounts. Even if Apple bans one account, they'll just open another. And they're often in countries where the US legal system can't touch them, so there's nothing to be lost from getting caught. Legitimate developers won't go to such (unethical, possible illegal) lengths. Rejection is a much bigger deal to those who spent a lot of time and care on an app, and hope to make a good name for themselves as developers.

moneywoes 4y ago
Isn’t it like $500 a year for an account?
- Aeolun 4y ago
  $100. Presumably they make more off of their scams befor the account is caught and banned.
  - simondotau 4y ago
    Apple's argument is, which I'm somewhat sympathetic to, the $100 fee acts as an effective rate limiter. The payment is low enough that it's not a significant barrier to anyone, except perhaps the most threadbare of hobbyists. But it's enough to make it utterly impractical for a scam developer to submit a thousand apps through a thousand developer accounts paid for with a thousand different credit cards.
    - lapcat 4y ago
      > Apple's argument is Says who? Not Apple itself. > The payment is low enough that it's not a significant barrier to anyone It's a barrier to many open source projects. > But it's enough to make it utterly impractical for a scam developer to submit a thousand apps through a thousand developer accounts paid for with a thousand different credit cards. You can submit many apps under one account. You don't need 1000 accounts for 1000 apps. It's strange to argue that it acts as an effective rate limiter when one of the points of the linked article is that these scam developers have multiple Apple Developer accounts.
      - simondotau 4y ago
        > Not Apple itself. Read the transcripts of Epic vs Apple. > You can submit many apps under one account. You don't need 1000 accounts for 1000 apps. You do if you don’t want Apple to be able to delete all your apps with one click. Yes, scammers have multiple accounts. It’s a lot more tractable for Apple to deal with a handful of accounts than thousands.
        lapcat 4y ago
        > Read the transcripts of Epic vs Apple. I have. > You do if you don’t want Apple to be able to delete all your apps with one click. False dichotomy. Two accounts accomplishes that just as well. It's a lot easier and cheaper to create a few accounts whenever necessary rather than prematurely creating 1000 accounts just to avoid a remote possibility. Besides, I'm not sure that these scammers have literally 1000 apps (though I don't rule out that possibility). > It’s a lot more tractable for Apple to deal with a handful of accounts than thousands. And yet Apple doesn't deal with it, as the linked article demonstrates.
        simondotau 4y ago
        I can’t believe I would have to explain the value of having hundreds of unconnected accounts if the goal of a spammer is to have their scam persist for as long as possible. It is a weird line of argument to say that because Apple doesn’t do everything perfectly, they should not implement any mitigation strategies at all. Like seriously, I have no idea what you were trying to say, or what do you think Apple should do, or what you want to convince me of. [Dictated, not read]

makeitdouble 4y ago

People care about false positives. Even if it was 0.X% of false positives, if those .X% include apps from Panic and Videolan we won't shrug it off as some cost to pay for the process.