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You can vote yourself into authoritarianism, but you cannot vote yourself out. And when that authoritarian you love so much makes a major blunder, invading Euro

You can vote yourself into authoritarianism, but you cannot vote yourself out. And when that authoritarian you love so much makes a major blunder, invading Europe for example, he takes everyone with him, and that's by design.

jjtheblunt 4y ago
Romania voted out their authoritarian ruler with a firing squad back in the mid to late 80s. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicolae_Ceau%C8%99escu https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicolae_Ceau%C8%99escu
- xuhu 4y ago
  It could be said that Europe collectively voted out communism at the end of the 80's.
  - ElectricalUnion 4y ago
    s/communism/socialism/g
    - BrandoElFollito 4y ago
      As a French I wonder what your are talking about.
      - Seb-C 4y ago
        As a French living abroad, I totally understand what he means.
        BrandoElFollito 4y ago
        Which is what?
  - ymolodtsov 4y ago
    Only when the USSR no longer had the means to stop this.
- m_fayer 4y ago
  Russia has become totalitarian, not just authoritarian. That’s an important distinction, totalitarian societies have much less capacity for independent action.
  - sterlind 4y ago
    Romania was totalitarian. Ceausescu was a bloodthirsty dictator. Bucharest was wormed through with underground tunnels that the Securitate would use to move around. He'd murder political opponents by summoning them to a waiting room with a radiation source, giving them cancer and then letting them leave. He was overthrown only after he massacred a ton of students, mowing them down with machine gun fire during a protest.
  - ymolodtsov 4y ago
    Russia doesn't really fit this description yet, even though Putin wants to create this image. Totalitarian states relied on masses and didn't have to forcibly get people to participate in their marches.
ajuc 4y ago
Usually you can't realistically vote the dictator out long before they invade somebody. For example Łukaszenko in Belarus made it impossible to vote him out in 90s already. Putin in early 00s. Russians and Belarusians made their mistakes back then. Now it's just a consequence of not fighting for their democracy strongly enough when it was still possible. This is the thing that kills democracy - it is taken away from you very slowly, step by step, and at any given moment it looks like it's not a big deal. And then when it's a big deal - you realize it doesn't matter what people think. You can't change anything. In my country (Poland) the fight is still going on, but I'm not optimistic.
- ethbr0 4y ago
  Let's not forget Hungary making it impossible to vote Orbán out ~2012.
- ymolodtsov 4y ago
  Are you saying people Belarus didn't fight hard enough in 2020?
0xDEF 4y ago
>a major blunder On the contrary this war is Putin's multiyear bet on Russia's useful idiots in the West. US Republicans overwhelmingly supported US military aid to Ukraine in the beginning of the war. However Tucker Carlson and other populists spend the next 12 months lowering that support to less than 40%. The only reason Russia started this war is because they believed their useful idiots in the West will save them. They are yet to be proved wrong.
- phillipcarter 4y ago
  > They are yet to be proved wrong. I'm confused. Hasn't the US and EU given incredible military aide to Ukraine?
  - veidr 4y ago
    More "some" than "incredible". But the result is yet to be seen.
  - 0xDEF 4y ago
    Realistically this war will continue for two more years. Russia's useful idiots are hard at work lowering Western popular support for Ukraine. Will the West still be giving military aid to Ukraine in 2025?
    - tjpnz 4y ago
      The US is free to do whatever it likes, but Europe won't accept a Russian-ruled Ukraine.
      - caskstrength 4y ago
        > The US is free to do whatever it likes, but Europe won't accept a Russian-ruled Ukraine. Won't accept in the sense they will continue with some sanctions indefinitely (significantly watered down by multiple parties) or in the sense that they will significantly and rapidly expand their production of ammunition and armored vehicles in order to fully sustain the Ukrainian military? Because if Biden loses they will need to have the production running in less than two years and I'm not sure they are _really_ prepared to invest the necessary resources.

jjtheblunt 4y ago

Romania voted out their authoritarian ruler with a firing squad back in the mid to late 80s. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicolae_Ceau%C8%99escu https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicolae_Ceau%C8%99escu

xuhu 4y ago
It could be said that Europe collectively voted out communism at the end of the 80's.
- ElectricalUnion 4y ago
  s/communism/socialism/g
  - BrandoElFollito 4y ago
    As a French I wonder what your are talking about.
    - Seb-C 4y ago
      As a French living abroad, I totally understand what he means.
      - BrandoElFollito 4y ago
        Which is what?
- ymolodtsov 4y ago
  Only when the USSR no longer had the means to stop this.
m_fayer 4y ago
Russia has become totalitarian, not just authoritarian. That’s an important distinction, totalitarian societies have much less capacity for independent action.
- sterlind 4y ago
  Romania was totalitarian. Ceausescu was a bloodthirsty dictator. Bucharest was wormed through with underground tunnels that the Securitate would use to move around. He'd murder political opponents by summoning them to a waiting room with a radiation source, giving them cancer and then letting them leave. He was overthrown only after he massacred a ton of students, mowing them down with machine gun fire during a protest.
- ymolodtsov 4y ago
  Russia doesn't really fit this description yet, even though Putin wants to create this image. Totalitarian states relied on masses and didn't have to forcibly get people to participate in their marches.

ajuc 4y ago

Usually you can't realistically vote the dictator out long before they invade somebody. For example Łukaszenko in Belarus made it impossible to vote him out in 90s already. Putin in early 00s. Russians and Belarusians made their mistakes back then. Now it's just a consequence of not fighting for their democracy strongly enough when it was still possible. This is the thing that kills democracy - it is taken away from you very slowly, step by step, and at any given moment it looks like it's not a big deal. And then when it's a big deal - you realize it doesn't matter what people think. You can't change anything. In my country (Poland) the fight is still going on, but I'm not optimistic.

ethbr0 4y ago
Let's not forget Hungary making it impossible to vote Orbán out ~2012.
ymolodtsov 4y ago
Are you saying people Belarus didn't fight hard enough in 2020?

0xDEF 4y ago

>a major blunder On the contrary this war is Putin's multiyear bet on Russia's useful idiots in the West. US Republicans overwhelmingly supported US military aid to Ukraine in the beginning of the war. However Tucker Carlson and other populists spend the next 12 months lowering that support to less than 40%. The only reason Russia started this war is because they believed their useful idiots in the West will save them. They are yet to be proved wrong.

phillipcarter 4y ago
> They are yet to be proved wrong. I'm confused. Hasn't the US and EU given incredible military aide to Ukraine?
- veidr 4y ago
  More "some" than "incredible". But the result is yet to be seen.
- 0xDEF 4y ago
  Realistically this war will continue for two more years. Russia's useful idiots are hard at work lowering Western popular support for Ukraine. Will the West still be giving military aid to Ukraine in 2025?
  - tjpnz 4y ago
    The US is free to do whatever it likes, but Europe won't accept a Russian-ruled Ukraine.
    - caskstrength 4y ago
      > The US is free to do whatever it likes, but Europe won't accept a Russian-ruled Ukraine. Won't accept in the sense they will continue with some sanctions indefinitely (significantly watered down by multiple parties) or in the sense that they will significantly and rapidly expand their production of ammunition and armored vehicles in order to fully sustain the Ukrainian military? Because if Biden loses they will need to have the production running in less than two years and I'm not sure they are _really_ prepared to invest the necessary resources.