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I wonder if they considered an "iPhone Europe Edition" - USB-C, side loading, physical SIM cards. Sounds like a good phone!
by edandersen 3y ago
I wonder if they considered an "iPhone Europe Edition" - USB-C, side loading, physical SIM cards. Sounds like a good phone!
- kaba0 3y agoWhat’s good about physical SIMs? I do like apple for daring to improve the status quo there, so I want my European Edition with only e-simsz
- W4RH4WK55 3y agoThat I can just take the SIM out and put it in a different phone? what's the migration process for eSIMs?
- tshaddox 3y agoYou need the carrier to offer eSIM, of course, but then you can just store a bunch of eSIMs on your iPhone and switch which one is active in the Settings app.
- spockz 3y agoI think the GP question was how to migrate your eSIM to another phone. You can transfer the sim but it needs to be activated on the other phone. I have even seen reactivation charges of €5.
- W4RH4WK55 3y agoYes, about how to move it to another phone, especially when my current phone just died. Maybe I dropped it and now the display no longer works.
- otterley 3y agoAsk your carrier to send you a replacement. They can be delivered by QR code.
- rhn_mk1 3y agoThat's the problem. Now your carrier is a single point of failure, and the typical person has zero leverage over the carrier.
- otterley 3y agoLeverage? This is a standard customer service process.
- rhn_mk1 3y agoAnd when that process fails, what recourse does the average Joe have? Especially when you can't afford to have much downtime between phones.
- otterley 3y agoI think you’re unnecessarily worried about this. If you don’t trust your carrier to get this process right, perhaps it’s worth choosing a different carrier.
- rhn_mk1 3y agoDo you know a carrier which you have any leverage against? I don't. Better get a physical SIM. Oh, you do? It's still a single point of failure. Customer support servers down? Should have gotten a physical SIM. Unbeatable servers? Good luck swapping eSIMs when you want to sell/throw away your phone abroad, out of range of internet. Should have gotten a phyical one. Never out of range? Wonder what you do when your phone breaks and you have no one to babysit you through the process. Should have gotten physical. Etc. That's what an additional sigle point of failure means: less control over your own infrastructure.
- tshaddox 3y agoI’ve heard of that but never ran into it myself. Isn’t that also the case for some carriers with physical SIMs too?
- spockz 3y agoI guess eSIM is still a luxury for now so they want to milk it. I have only ever heard of first time activation of a sim. Vodafone in NL requires an activation via their app, or phone, before first use. But I think that is normal. The last time I got a physical sim it was in 2013 and I have transferred the same sim across multiple phones since.
- geocar 3y agoBetter: it’s a menu option. https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT212780 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT212780 eSIMs also have the advantage of an activation card can be sent instantly from almost anywhere (it’s a QR code) which is great if your phone (and physical sim) are lost or damaged.
- Xylakant 3y ago> Some carriers support SIM transfers from your previous iPhone to your new iPhone without needing to contact them “Some” is true afaik. It’s at the providers discretion. AFAIK it’s also only possible if you’re moving from iPhone to iPhone, not if you’re moving to an Android. I’m not certain moving back and forth between multiple phones is easily supported. I like e-sims in general, but this is a downside for some use cases.
- supertrope 3y agoIn theory eSIM allows for self service without going to a store or waiting for shipping. In practice you might be on hold with your phone company for an hour. Some USA MVNOs don’t support eSIM.
- Xylakant 3y agoAs the person managing phone contracts in our company, I really like that part of eSIMs. I can mail a phone or have the employee purchase one and then mail my providers support and I‘m all set. About one hour later, the phone will have connectivity. If you‘re using an MDM solution that supports it, you can even manage the assigned eSIMs there. Now, we‘re on a business contract and we have a responsive team on the other side, so the comfort of this hinges on the provider obviously.
- geocar 3y agoSounds terrible. Here in socialist Europe it is exactly as easy as I just made it sound.
- black3r 3y ago
- JD557 3y agoUnfortunately, I don't think this is always true for physical SIMs. I recently bought a temporary SIM in the US during my holidays (StraightTalk) and was surprised that you can only use the physical SIM after you register online with you IMEI. I haven't checked, but I imagine that after that the card would only work with that IMEI. Fortunately, I don't think this is a practice in Europe.
- EvanAnderson 3y agoTo be fair, though, Straight Talk is absolutely hot garbage. I had a fiasco trying to activate two physical SIMs and port numbers to them back in January. Their provisioning system chokes and dies on phones with both eSIM and physical SIM capability (like the factory-unlocked iPhone SE 3rd gen models I was trying to activate). I spent hours on the phone holding and talking to reps, getting disconnected and calling back to start all over again. It was a nightmare.
- JD557 3y agoI'm quite happy to read this, because my experience was also awful - they didn't accept the IMEI of 3 phones I tried and their app is full of ads (not to mention that I kept receiving scam calls). I really hope that it's because they are awful and this is not the typical American mobile phone experience.
- otterley 3y agoThe migration process is, you ask your carrier for a new eSIM. They send you one via QR code. That's pretty much it.
- jl6 3y agoeSIM is a potentially smoother setup process if the alternative is getting a card through the mail, but physical SIM switching is better than having to contact your carrier.
- Hamuko 3y agoAnd then your carrier bills you 3€ for it, because they can. They can also just disable the iPhone-to-iPhone eSIM transfer functionality. Ask me how I know. eSIMs are incredibly user-hostile because they switch the ownership of a SIM card from the customer to the provider, so you're completely at their mercy if you need to transfer over your SIM card from one device to another. And Apple facilitates this.
- onion2k 3y agoDealing with the carrier is usually the worst part of owning a phone. Asking for a new esim is likely to send you down a path of navigating a process where they try to sell you an upgrade, or they send you a QR code that doesn't work, or a million other possible problems.
- vladvasiliu 3y ago> Dealing with the carrier is usually the worst part of owning a phone. It's probably intentional. I was reading an article in the French press the other day [0] on the subject. Some head of something or other in the industry said they were weary of mostly Apple, Samsung, and Google starting to like playing the providers and removing the actual carriers from the users' psyche. "The SIM card is the last physical link between the carrier and the client". I've also checked my carrier's site for getting an esim. Apparently I'd have to pay the same amount to get one as for a physical one (minus delivery costs). But at least, contrary to some other commenters' situation, they seem to allow you to move it from phone to phone as long as you hold on to your qr code. They, of course, don't offer the option of storing it in the "secure" client area. [0] https://www.lefigaro.fr/secteur/high-tech/avec-l-esim-la-carte-sim-bientot-en-voie-de-disparition-20230420 https://www.lefigaro.fr/secteur/high-tech/avec-l-esim-la-car...
- Moldoteck 3y agoSome people value privacy and can buy phisical sims from stores without id's and it's perfectly legal
- WastingMyTime89 3y agoNot in most of the world, no. Most place will have to scan your ID when selling you a SIM card.
- ulfw 3y agoMy China iPhones don't even have any eSIM support. Instead we get a dual nano SIM card slot. https://support.apple.com/en-hk/HT209086 https://support.apple.com/en-hk/HT209086 Personally I'd love for eSIM to be there in ADDITION but not replacing the nano SIMs.
- pmontra 3y agoThe last time I dropped my phone and broke its screen I took out the SIM and left the phone in a repair shop. I went home, put the SIM in an old phone. If the broken phone had an eSIM, would I been able to use the old one as a backup? Maybe by going to a shop and askig for a physical SIM. That would be slower and less convenient. A physical SIM fits in a Samsung A40 which is probably the smaller and lighter Android phone available today and in much smaller phones of the past so it's definitely not a burden.
- vore 3y agoIf your old phone was also eSIM compatible, you can just download the eSIM from your carrier like you would if you moved to any other phone.
- 76SlashDolphin 3y agoBut you would need to somehow get in touch with said carrier. Granted, you could probably do that over WiFi but if my phone breaks when, say, I'm out camping I'm SoL.
- jackothy 3y agoWhile I could see how the camping scenario might matter to a few people, I would personally rather have a couple mAh larger battery because of the slight physical space savings that I imagine eSIM brings.
- 76SlashDolphin 3y agoOh yeah, agreed. If moving an eSIM requires me stowing away a QR code with my backup phone then I'll gladly give up my physical SIM slot for more battery.
- HopenHeyHi 3y agoThe associated esim app has free connectivity to complete the signup flow without wifi. It is obviously more convenient to download an app to your backup phone than futz around with physical sims you just have to remember to do so before you go camping. Now you might retort aha! See! In a very narrow set of circumstances.. let me cut you off, look, you're going to need to remember to bring a paperclip or sim tool to do it the old fashioned way anyhow. So you're remembering something. If you're an amnesic lost in the woods you got bigger problems. Besides, those are 2 grams of weight savings in my ultra light backpacking setup!
- reustle 3y agoIf you travel to more than 1 or 2 countries per year, especially less developed countries, you'll learn that your life (connection) depends on picking up cheap $5-15 sim cards at the border for each country. I couldn't imagine them jumping on the esim train in any useful way in the near term.
- kaba0 3y agoBut without a major company pushing for the technically superior solution, it will never change, so I don’t get the pushback.
- WastingMyTime89 3y agoThere are multiple companies like Airalo offering pre-paid $5-15 eSIM cards for most countries in the world. They also offer continental and global eSIM working in multiple countries if you are moving a lot. The offering is a lot better than what you find at the border and you don’t have to get your passport scanned by a random person. Most backpackers I know switched a long time ago. It’s actually the scenario that finally convinced me that eSIM was a good idea.
- reustle 3y agoI've used Airalo for years as well, but their global sim only supports 84 countries, and is usually 5-15x the price a local sim per GB. If you're spending a considerable amount of time in the country and tethering, it adds up.
- kmbfjr 3y agoI think you need to compare the service tier of what world eSim carriers provide before mentioning the price. Yes, you can get service for that price. It has paltry data allowances compared to what OP is describing.
- WastingMyTime89 3y agoI can. I have used them extensively while travelling (always local offers - I never needed a sim for multiple countries but a European one is barely more expensive than a single EU country one for example). Airalo sells local esim for something like 200 countries with prices which are competitive and offering which are often better tailored to travellers. In plenty of countries if you try buying straight from a local provider you can’t buy low amount of data or have to get voice with it. Meanwhile Airalo allows you to buy 1, 5 or 10GB for very cheap and topping up is pushing a button in their app. I meant it when I said it was insanely more convenient.
- worble 3y agoI know nothing about esims, what makes them so much better than a physical sim? I can't say I have any major qualms with what I have right now, I just shove it in my phone and forget about it.
- kaba0 3y agoIt takes up space for no good reason, especially if you want to use multiple numbers.
- HopenHeyHi 3y agoI am in Japan. I am using some app called Ubigi. When I landed I made a one off 400 yen payment, like tree fiffdy or something, and immediately had data working right at the airport for the rest of the month. Apple Pay, one off, no contracts, no queues, no diligent service people. It saved probably 1 hour of my life! And it is somehow significantly cheaper (depends on the country, ymmv). Frankly I pity people who get off a long flight and wait in line to get an overpriced piece of plastic to stick in their phones like it is 1823.
- jlund-molfese 3y agoIt’s a minor benefit, but you should get better waterproofing because you have one less port
- dontlaugh 3y agoThey’re actually supported by carriers. In the UK there’s only EE and only with a contract. I can’t use eSIM with EE pay as you go.
- zarzavat 3y agoIn many countries there are zero local carriers that support eSIMs. Maybe in some hypothetical future this is not the case, but at least in this decade a phone that has a physical SIM is essential.
- artdigital 3y agoRecently moved to a new country (non-EU). The carrier I'm using does not offer eSIM and shipped me a physical SIM card. This is not an outlier, I have a couple of physical SIM cards, some US, that I wouldn't be able to use if the phone was eSIM only, like the recent US iPhone. Also moving a eSIM from iOS device to non-iOS device (for example to plug into my secondary Android) is a massive PITA. I always have to re-issue the SIM which I often can't do and need to jumps through customer support queries and hoops. My current provider back home doesn't even give me the option to do it while abroad and support told me to come back for a day, then finish the eSIM reissuing application, so I'm stuck with the physical SIM anyway. eSIMs will be great one day, but that day is not now. I much rather pop the SIM out of phone 1 and move it into phone 2, or iPad when I want, than wait hours (or sometimes days) to get a new eSIM approved, and repeat that process every single time I want to move a connection to another device
- theodric 3y agoThe eSIM is all about cost savings and more control for them, sold to you as more convenience for you. I'm not giving up my SIM!
- baby 3y agoIf you’re traveling and want to buy a cheap esim, good luck.
- madeofpalk 3y agoWhy would you want it with only esim? Seeing as esim still works in iPhones with a phyiscal sim card slot, what benefits does dropping it get you?
- dwaite 3y agothe space can be used for additional hardware, additional battery, or eliminating it can result in an overall smaller device.
- Sporktacular 3y agoPhysical SIMs are convenient, especially for travellers and facilitate competition through super-easy carrier switching. What are the improvements of e-SIMs for customers? Please don't say size.
- s3p 3y agoNot much. Apple wanted eSIM for years but carriers fought them over it. They like the physical lock-in of SIM cards. Customers can't easily switch because they have to wait for a SIM to ship or go to a carrier's brick and mortar presence to replace it. Now? People can switch carriers while in their living room. Takes a matter of minutes. Absolutely frictionless.
- doubtfulcan 3y agoIt allows for pseudonymous internet access on devices and does not tie you to any carrier for any length of time
- bee_rider 3y agoSounds like a lot of changes, wonder how big the lag between the world and European version will be.
- neximo64 3y agoIt will be quite undesirable to distribute apps through a means where economies of scale are not available for example if there is no US market
- jrockway 3y agoI don't think things will be a problem. Distributing software is fairly easy; for most apps, uploading the app binary to their website as though it's an image file or video will be sufficient. And, then you get 30% more money for your business. It will be quite popular just for the cost savings. (Distributing software is not always easy, as game companies that have 100GB game downloads on launch day will tell you. But, for most apps, it will be easy enough.)
- neximo64 3y agoThe issue about distribution is never the technical aspect you are describing, it's about getting people to visit that website/app store in the first place. If it were that aspect aspect companies like T-Mobile, Equinix, Vodafone, Orange would dominate it. Even after the the app store is available in Europe, these companies have no chance of success. That is what it looks like will be very undesirable because it will be fragmented and competing with an all-world app store that is bundled with iOS. If you were a developer you would prefer 1000 sales at 30% cut, vs 5 sales with a 0% (supposedly still 30% if the chatter is right on Apple charging for sideloading) cut, so that would kind of feedback loop and make less people list on those app stores, which in turn makes them undesirable.
- red_trumpet 3y agoHow would "charging for sideloading" work? If I publish an app on my website, I wouldn't have a contract with apple, right? Would they charge the user?
- arlcode 3y agoThey could try some shenanigans like requiring "certification" to side load anything and that would come with a contract. It would be struck down by the courts and version 2 of this regulation but for a few years it would be there. I'm hoping apple doesn't do that but at this point I think they'll try anything they can to protect their golden goose (aka app store) even from minor competition.
- fortuna86 3y ago[dead]
- hcks 3y agoLiterally just buy an Android and stop imposing it on others