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Many local municipalities actually require the developer to include a new HOA as part of the permitting process for new development. This is because small loca

Many local municipalities actually require the developer to include a new HOA as part of the permitting process for new development. This is because small local governments are often too cash poor to foot the additional road maintenance, utilities, etc so they want to offload the cost to the developers/ the developers customers.

hnaccount_rng 3y ago
As a European, this really reads like the thing with the "give them 5 more minutes and they'll rediscover taxes" situation.. Yeah if you outsource government functions to private institutions you'll have to require those to exist. Just that, being private, there's no accountability to be had..
- jen20 3y ago
  The HOA fees are _on top_ of property taxes that would make Europeans’ eyes water.
  - lostlogin 3y ago
    You you share what you pay? I don’t understand how this could be true. I’m in Auckland, New Zealand and don’t have a housing association. I pay about US$1500 per year in property tax. It covers rubbish collection, library access, street cleaning, park maintenance, subsidised public transport (which is an abysmal service) etc. https://www.aucklandcouncil.govt.nz/property-rates-valuations/your-rates-bill/Pages/what-rates-pay-for.aspx#:~:text=Services%20your%20property%20rates%20pay%20for&text=collecting%20rubbish,maintaining%20parks https://www.aucklandcouncil.govt.nz/property-rates-valuation...
    - punk-coder 3y ago
      I live in Georgia, City of Decatur. My house is a 1920 craftsman, 2,800 sq ft, 4 bedroom, 3 bath. We pay ~$1,200 a month in property taxes.
      - prepend 3y ago
        Decatur is usually about 1% of the home value in property taxes, right? The size of the house isn’t as important as the value. If you’re laying $14k/year in property taxes, your house is likely appraised for $1-1.5M. Nationally speaking, Decatur has pretty low property taxes. Especially since you’re probably a short distance from the Brick Store Pub.
    - saltcured 3y ago
      In the SF Bay Area the property tax rate is around 1-1.25% (it varies slightly by local bonds for school districts etc.). So someone who buys a house today in a popular suburb at $1M+ will be paying $10k+ per year in property tax. My parents' home has one of these typical HOAs established by the builder. The HOA fees were $1200 last year. The HOA does have significant common areas including a pool and park that has been there since the beginning. It also has hilly open spaces that require annual weed and brush clearing for fire breaks. These areas also have landslide potential with drainage and retaining wall engineering issues, which adds to both contractor costs and also increases insurance premiums for the HOA. My parents bought their house new for under $45k in 1975 and are currently assessed at under $170k based on the Prop 13 logic. It's hard to say what the market value is since recently sold homes in the area have had significant remodeling compared to my parents' time-capsule, but I imagine they could get nearly $1M. They probably represent the lower limit of assessments in their neighborhood. Most neighboring houses have been resold and reset to market rates at least once in the past 50 years, or at least done some major renovations which also partially increase the assessment for tax purposes.
    - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
      $1500/year? How is that so cheap? I pay around $900/month. There are people who own condos in my region who pay $900/month in HOA fees on top of $900/month in property taxes.
      - lostlogin 3y ago
        Part of this may be due to differences in what taxes do? I pay 33% income tax. Some of this might go to things that local government pays in your region? For example, in NZ income tax pays for schools, not property tax. Same applies to hospitals and various other services. As you say, that’s a massive difference.
        jemmyw 3y ago
        33% income tax on the top band, not in total. Even though I fall into the 39% band I'm still not paying as much as 33% all up.
        lostlogin 3y ago
        Thank you, yes.
        seanmcdirmid 3y ago
        My state lacks an income tax, so we pay high sales and property tax. But overall my tax burden should be lower than NZ, but those property taxes are ridiculously low, no wonder NZ is (or was?) a good place for foreigners to speculate on property.
        lostlogin 3y ago
        We welcome you in! And if it’s getting tricky, you can usually find a politician who is sympathetic and will bend the rules for you. Thiel managed 12 days here before citizenship came though, but if you aren’t as rich as him I’m sure we could come to an arrangement. If working here, you’ll be alarmed by the low wages, high housing costs (for low quality housing) and high cost of living. However bad you think it is, it’s worse. But other stuff is great! https://www.nzherald.co.nz/indepth/national/how-peter-thiel-got-new-zealand-citizenship/ https://www.nzherald.co.nz/indepth/national/how-peter-thiel-...
    - jen20 3y ago
      That doesn’t even cover a month in Austin! I’m not going to share the exact amount, but it’s a (low) double-digit multiple of that.
  - hnaccount_rng 3y ago
    So? It doesn't particularly matter _how_ taxes are collected. Just how much in total, and what you pay from that tax money. If I'm reading, that HOAs have to build their own roads, their own sewer system, power lines, etc. Then yeah.. that is a state responsibility here. That is done by a publicly accountable organisation, where you can, when you are angry with their performance, go to your elected officials and make them do something about it. Yes it's not as direct as being a customer, yes it's not as easy as you getting your own way on everything, but there is an established process for everything. The typical argument on this site here is: Europe doesn't have a thriving tech center because of high taxes. The HOAs and stuff like that is a consequence of the different tax burden. So I guess your total taxability is lower than ours shrug
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]

hnaccount_rng 3y ago

As a European, this really reads like the thing with the "give them 5 more minutes and they'll rediscover taxes" situation.. Yeah if you outsource government functions to private institutions you'll have to require those to exist. Just that, being private, there's no accountability to be had..

jen20 3y ago
The HOA fees are _on top_ of property taxes that would make Europeans’ eyes water.
- lostlogin 3y ago
  You you share what you pay? I don’t understand how this could be true. I’m in Auckland, New Zealand and don’t have a housing association. I pay about US$1500 per year in property tax. It covers rubbish collection, library access, street cleaning, park maintenance, subsidised public transport (which is an abysmal service) etc. https://www.aucklandcouncil.govt.nz/property-rates-valuations/your-rates-bill/Pages/what-rates-pay-for.aspx#:~:text=Services%20your%20property%20rates%20pay%20for&text=collecting%20rubbish,maintaining%20parks https://www.aucklandcouncil.govt.nz/property-rates-valuation...
  - punk-coder 3y ago
    I live in Georgia, City of Decatur. My house is a 1920 craftsman, 2,800 sq ft, 4 bedroom, 3 bath. We pay ~$1,200 a month in property taxes.
    - prepend 3y ago
      Decatur is usually about 1% of the home value in property taxes, right? The size of the house isn’t as important as the value. If you’re laying $14k/year in property taxes, your house is likely appraised for $1-1.5M. Nationally speaking, Decatur has pretty low property taxes. Especially since you’re probably a short distance from the Brick Store Pub.
  - saltcured 3y ago
    In the SF Bay Area the property tax rate is around 1-1.25% (it varies slightly by local bonds for school districts etc.). So someone who buys a house today in a popular suburb at $1M+ will be paying $10k+ per year in property tax. My parents' home has one of these typical HOAs established by the builder. The HOA fees were $1200 last year. The HOA does have significant common areas including a pool and park that has been there since the beginning. It also has hilly open spaces that require annual weed and brush clearing for fire breaks. These areas also have landslide potential with drainage and retaining wall engineering issues, which adds to both contractor costs and also increases insurance premiums for the HOA. My parents bought their house new for under $45k in 1975 and are currently assessed at under $170k based on the Prop 13 logic. It's hard to say what the market value is since recently sold homes in the area have had significant remodeling compared to my parents' time-capsule, but I imagine they could get nearly $1M. They probably represent the lower limit of assessments in their neighborhood. Most neighboring houses have been resold and reset to market rates at least once in the past 50 years, or at least done some major renovations which also partially increase the assessment for tax purposes.
  - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
    $1500/year? How is that so cheap? I pay around $900/month. There are people who own condos in my region who pay $900/month in HOA fees on top of $900/month in property taxes.
    - lostlogin 3y ago
      Part of this may be due to differences in what taxes do? I pay 33% income tax. Some of this might go to things that local government pays in your region? For example, in NZ income tax pays for schools, not property tax. Same applies to hospitals and various other services. As you say, that’s a massive difference.
      - jemmyw 3y ago
        33% income tax on the top band, not in total. Even though I fall into the 39% band I'm still not paying as much as 33% all up.
        lostlogin 3y ago
        Thank you, yes.
      - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
        My state lacks an income tax, so we pay high sales and property tax. But overall my tax burden should be lower than NZ, but those property taxes are ridiculously low, no wonder NZ is (or was?) a good place for foreigners to speculate on property.
        lostlogin 3y ago
        We welcome you in! And if it’s getting tricky, you can usually find a politician who is sympathetic and will bend the rules for you. Thiel managed 12 days here before citizenship came though, but if you aren’t as rich as him I’m sure we could come to an arrangement. If working here, you’ll be alarmed by the low wages, high housing costs (for low quality housing) and high cost of living. However bad you think it is, it’s worse. But other stuff is great! https://www.nzherald.co.nz/indepth/national/how-peter-thiel-got-new-zealand-citizenship/ https://www.nzherald.co.nz/indepth/national/how-peter-thiel-...
  - jen20 3y ago
    That doesn’t even cover a month in Austin! I’m not going to share the exact amount, but it’s a (low) double-digit multiple of that.
- hnaccount_rng 3y ago
  So? It doesn't particularly matter _how_ taxes are collected. Just how much in total, and what you pay from that tax money. If I'm reading, that HOAs have to build their own roads, their own sewer system, power lines, etc. Then yeah.. that is a state responsibility here. That is done by a publicly accountable organisation, where you can, when you are angry with their performance, go to your elected officials and make them do something about it. Yes it's not as direct as being a customer, yes it's not as easy as you getting your own way on everything, but there is an established process for everything. The typical argument on this site here is: Europe doesn't have a thriving tech center because of high taxes. The HOAs and stuff like that is a consequence of the different tax burden. So I guess your total taxability is lower than ours shrug
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]