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This got me thinking: what would we see if we implanted (with a futuristic tech) cones that can see ultraviolet? Would we see a new color? Or perhaps our brain

by haolez 4y ago

This got me thinking: what would we see if we implanted (with a futuristic tech) cones that can see ultraviolet? Would we see a new color? Or perhaps our brain would recalibrate and ultraviolet would be the new purple?

perfmode 4y ago
there are already some people in the population who have enhanced visual perception. i believe they have a fourth cone.
- bassrattle 4y ago
  Yes! It's called terachromatism, and I gather they perceive color nearly the same except the subtle differences between colors is more pronounced.
  - bassrattle 4y ago
    *tetrachromatism
    - thfuran 4y ago
      Terachromatism would be pretty extreme.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
bitwize 4y ago
Our cones can already perceive ultraviolet. The lenses of our eyes filter UV out. That is why we are prone to cataracts; the UV light the lens absorbs clouds it over time. People who lack eye lenses have been reported to see ultraviolet as a light, bright purple. Maybe if you had a tetrachromat with no lens, she would see it differently, I don't know.
- selimthegrim 4y ago
  There can also be male tetrachromats apparently.
lostlogin 4y ago
I’ve heard people argue that Monet could see UV light after having cataract surgery as his lens was removed. Others argue that this wasn’t the case, but it’s interesting either way. https://www.quora.com/Could-Monet-really-see-Ultraviolet-light?top_ans=23296993 https://www.quora.com/Could-Monet-really-see-Ultraviolet-lig...
- leetrout 4y ago
  This made me wonder how long we have been doing cataract surgery... > In 1753, Samuel Sharp performed the first documented intracapsular cataract extraction (ICCE). I would not have guessed 1753.
  - Trouble_007 4y ago
    Interestingly, this entry would indicate much earlier; [1]>Cataract surgery was first described by the Ayurvedic physician, Suśruta (about 5th century BCE) in Sushruta Samhita in ancient India. Most of the methods mentioned focus on hygiene. Follow-up treatments include bandaging of the eye and covering the eye with warm butter. References to cataracts and their treatment in Ancient Rome are also found in 29 AD in De Medicinae, the work of the Latin encyclopedist Aulus Cornelius Celsus. Archaeological evidence of eye surgery in the Roman era also exists. Galen of Pergamon (ca. 2nd century CE), a prominent Greek physician, surgeon and philosopher, performed an operation similar to modern cataract surgery. Using a needle-shaped instrument, Galen attempted to remove the cataract-affected lens of the eye. Muslim ophthalmologist Ammar Al-Mawsili, in his The Book of Choice in Ophthalmology, written circa 1000 CE, wrote of his invention of a syringe and the technique of cataract extraction while experimenting with it on a patient. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cataract#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cataract#History
    - leetrout 4y ago
      That is mind-boggling. It is hard for me to imagine how much humans had over the centuries given my reliance on technology.
- 4y ago
tomatotomato37 4y ago
I know our brains are already capable of rendering impossible colors produced whenever certain cone cells are intentionally fatigued
gpderetta 4y ago
Egan wrote a short story ("Seventh Sight", collected in "Instantiation") about a subculture of otherwise blind people that hack their optic protheses to see ultraviolet. Excellent as usual, if you like Egan.
Dylan16807 4y ago
Color vision is based on two signals, one that varies between red and green and one that varies between yellow and blue. So a cone integrated normally would probably just come across as further blue and a better purple, not something notably distinct from existing colors. Getting the full use out of more cones would require a significant rework to how our optical nerves work.
wcoenen 4y ago
> if we implanted (with a futuristic tech) cones that can see ultraviolet? The information also needs to make it from the retina to the brain. Surprisingly, there are no separate red/green/blue channels for the different cone types. Instead, there is a channel for the difference between red vs green, and another for the difference between between blue vs (red+green). https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2826135/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2826135/ So adding a new cone type would not be enough, it would also have to be represented in one of these channels, or a new channel.
- m463 4y ago
  People with cataract replacements can see UV and in fact this capability has been used in military situations to see special lights/signals at night.
  - retox 4y ago
    I was dubious but found this great writeup. https://www.komar.org/faq/colorado-cataract-surgery-crystalens/ultra-violet-color-glow/ https://www.komar.org/faq/colorado-cataract-surgery-crystale...

by haolez 4y ago

perfmode 4y ago

there are already some people in the population who have enhanced visual perception. i believe they have a fourth cone.

bassrattle 4y ago
Yes! It's called terachromatism, and I gather they perceive color nearly the same except the subtle differences between colors is more pronounced.
- bassrattle 4y ago
  *tetrachromatism
  - thfuran 4y ago
    Terachromatism would be pretty extreme.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]

bitwize 4y ago

Our cones can already perceive ultraviolet. The lenses of our eyes filter UV out. That is why we are prone to cataracts; the UV light the lens absorbs clouds it over time. People who lack eye lenses have been reported to see ultraviolet as a light, bright purple. Maybe if you had a tetrachromat with no lens, she would see it differently, I don't know.

selimthegrim 4y ago
There can also be male tetrachromats apparently.

lostlogin 4y ago

I’ve heard people argue that Monet could see UV light after having cataract surgery as his lens was removed. Others argue that this wasn’t the case, but it’s interesting either way. https://www.quora.com/Could-Monet-really-see-Ultraviolet-light?top_ans=23296993 https://www.quora.com/Could-Monet-really-see-Ultraviolet-lig...

leetrout 4y ago
This made me wonder how long we have been doing cataract surgery... > In 1753, Samuel Sharp performed the first documented intracapsular cataract extraction (ICCE). I would not have guessed 1753.
- Trouble_007 4y ago
  Interestingly, this entry would indicate much earlier; [1]>Cataract surgery was first described by the Ayurvedic physician, Suśruta (about 5th century BCE) in Sushruta Samhita in ancient India. Most of the methods mentioned focus on hygiene. Follow-up treatments include bandaging of the eye and covering the eye with warm butter. References to cataracts and their treatment in Ancient Rome are also found in 29 AD in De Medicinae, the work of the Latin encyclopedist Aulus Cornelius Celsus. Archaeological evidence of eye surgery in the Roman era also exists. Galen of Pergamon (ca. 2nd century CE), a prominent Greek physician, surgeon and philosopher, performed an operation similar to modern cataract surgery. Using a needle-shaped instrument, Galen attempted to remove the cataract-affected lens of the eye. Muslim ophthalmologist Ammar Al-Mawsili, in his The Book of Choice in Ophthalmology, written circa 1000 CE, wrote of his invention of a syringe and the technique of cataract extraction while experimenting with it on a patient. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cataract#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cataract#History
  - leetrout 4y ago
    That is mind-boggling. It is hard for me to imagine how much humans had over the centuries given my reliance on technology.
4y ago

tomatotomato37 4y ago

I know our brains are already capable of rendering impossible colors produced whenever certain cone cells are intentionally fatigued

gpderetta 4y ago

Egan wrote a short story ("Seventh Sight", collected in "Instantiation") about a subculture of otherwise blind people that hack their optic protheses to see ultraviolet. Excellent as usual, if you like Egan.

Dylan16807 4y ago

Color vision is based on two signals, one that varies between red and green and one that varies between yellow and blue. So a cone integrated normally would probably just come across as further blue and a better purple, not something notably distinct from existing colors. Getting the full use out of more cones would require a significant rework to how our optical nerves work.

wcoenen 4y ago

> if we implanted (with a futuristic tech) cones that can see ultraviolet? The information also needs to make it from the retina to the brain. Surprisingly, there are no separate red/green/blue channels for the different cone types. Instead, there is a channel for the difference between red vs green, and another for the difference between between blue vs (red+green). https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2826135/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2826135/ So adding a new cone type would not be enough, it would also have to be represented in one of these channels, or a new channel.

m463 4y ago
People with cataract replacements can see UV and in fact this capability has been used in military situations to see special lights/signals at night.
- retox 4y ago
  I was dubious but found this great writeup. https://www.komar.org/faq/colorado-cataract-surgery-crystalens/ultra-violet-color-glow/ https://www.komar.org/faq/colorado-cataract-surgery-crystale...